Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
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Kind of like the difference between these.View attachment 80948
Kind of like the difference between these.View attachment 80948
Now, medals are usually presented in No. 1A. Sometimes units do it in CADPAT/NCD because there is an event/exercise, or they are in theatre still, but usually it's in No. 1A.About as formalMore formal than when I received my CD, except there was no photographer present. It was the regularly scheduled (once a week) coffee for the Surg Gen branch officers (NDHQ). The DSurgGen rather casually handed me the box, made an off-hand comment and that was it. The only reason that I was there that morning was the Surg Gen's SO forewarned me. At least when I received my first clasp, there was a gaggle of pers about gathered for the presentation and the CO said a few words (it was in the field in Wainwright - the gaggle was there for an OGrp).
Patrol dress is a walking out uniform so it goes from being on parade up to formal diner. IMHO, it’s a better investment than mess kit for NCO’s and jr off. The who where what and when is another debate.I'm guessing that the people who need to buy mess dress are the ones most likely to buy patrols as well. We already have 2B for those without mess dress, and I'm not sure many places would go for 2/2B/1D as options for dress at formal dinners.
I can see patrols being used like high collar navy whites, at events where a suit and tie is considered appropriate dress, and for ceremonial occasions where it's just a few senior people present.
Another example where patrols make sense, the C Int C Col recently had an audience with Princess Anne, along with his CWO. Since it was two senior people, patrols would look more formal that DEU leisure suits, and they would both be in a similar order of dress as they are both senior enough to be expected to own optional uniforms like that.
Now, medals are usually presented in No. 1A. Sometimes units do it in CADPAT/NCD because there is an event/exercise, or they are in theatre still, but usually it's in No. 1A.
It changed for exactly the reason you highlighted, people were getting medals in the least appropriate way, simply because CoCs didn't care.
I suspect our units and jobs are the reason for the difference in experience. I have been told that 1A was the direction given, with latitude for circumstances outside the normal.In the last decade, almost every medal/commendation/promotion I have seen presented has been in operational dress - the only time I've seen presentations in ceremonial or service dress are for the odd ceremony.
You may think it is the CoC that doesn't care, but in many cases soldiers don't care to dig a uniform out for getting an award during their daily duties. Is a dress uniform required to pose for that awkward picture that almost nobody ever sees again?
In the last decade, almost every medal/commendation/promotion I have seen presented has been in operational dress - the only time I've seen presentations in ceremonial or service dress are for the odd ceremony.
You may think it is the CoC that doesn't care, but in many cases soldiers don't care to dig a uniform out for getting an award during their daily duties. Is a dress uniform required to pose for that awkward picture that almost nobody ever sees again?
Now, medals are usually presented in No. 1A. Sometimes units do it in CADPAT/NCD because there is an event/exercise, or they are in theatre still, but usually it's in No. 1A.
It changed for exactly the reason you highlighted, people were getting medals in the least appropriate way, simply because CoCs didn't care.
One of my lasting memories of someone talking about the decorations and medals that he was wearing occurred in 1994. I had the good luck of having a COS date out of Lahr that permitted me to arrange my passage home on the Queen Elizabeth 2 sailing out of Southampton on 8 June. I was able therefore to drive to Normandy and spend 6 June 94 (50th Anniversary of D-Day) visiting some of the memorials and events there; take the ferry across to England; turn my car over to Cunard for loading onto the ship and then relax for several days on the North Atlantic. The voyage was billed as a “D-Day Memorial” cruise. Many of the passengers were WW II veterans, mostly American, some Brits, and at least one Canadian.
One of the events that occurred on the ship was the Captain’s Welcome Party. Dressed in finest bib and tucker, you go through the receiving line, have your photo taken and then proceed to the most important part of the soiree… getting a drink. Some of the other passengers were wearing medals, ribbons or devices that showed that they had served. I was in mess kit as were a few of the other passengers including a Van Doo LCol and a husband & wife who were both pilots in the USAF. It was particularly easy for the Van Doo and me to be noticed in the scarlet monkey jackets.
A few people had approached me with the inevitable questions about who we were and what were we doing. I was chatting with a lady when we were approached by a gentleman in a maroon jacket that included Cdn para wings and several medals. He introduced himself and joined in the conversation which naturally turned to where had you been. He had served with the 1 Cdn Para Bn as a private during the war and had made the jump into Normandy and over the Rhine.
The lady with whom we were chatting asked about the medals and wings he and I were wearing. I probably would have answered in my typically flippant manner about 12 years undetected crime (C.D.), 6 months getting a suntan and not getting a venereal disease (UNEFME) and 4 years wine and beer tasting (SSM with NATO bar), but he replied first by drawing her attention to the one medal we had in common, the Canadian Forces Decoration. I was surprised when he told her it was the one that he was most proud to wear. The lady asked why. His reply impressed me and later that evening I wrote an account of what he said, maybe not verbatim, because we had imbibed several beverages, but close enough for government work.
He said. “ It’s easy to be a soldier when everyone is or wants to be a soldier; when being in uniform is the normal thing to do. The true measure of a man is his commitment to serving his country when there is little chance of excitement, or glory or getting medals. This medal (he indicated his CD) shows people that we pledged a significant portion of our lives to serving our country when few others would, doing things that we didn't necessarily want to do and that were not very glamorous. These (he indicated his 4 or 5 wartime medals) I got for spending 3 years in uniform doing what most guys my age were doing. Was it hard work and dangerous? Yes. But mostly I had a lot of fun doing it.”
Since then I’ve had a different perspective on those little pieces of ribbon that we wear.
There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.Maybe it's just me, but I'm cool if you just hand me something (medal, achievement, promotion, whatever) and shake my hand if you think it's worthy. No need to form up the ships company for me.
But I'm not big on pomp and ceremony.
Agreed. Especially when it's included in events that mark significant milestones within a unit's history.There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.
There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm cool if you just hand me something (medal, achievement, promotion, whatever) and shake my hand if you think it's worthy. No need to form up the ships company for me.
But I'm not big on pomp and ceremony.
100%There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.
There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.
There's a balance - public recognition can be important as well. It's not just that you're being promoted, but you're also being held up as an example to those junior to you - work hard, show initiative, in some trades have a pulse - and you too can advance.
There is institutional value in that recognition that needs to be balanced against the institutional cost of what can often be excess pomp and ceremony.
That's fair. I guess I never looked it from that stance.
Its not always about me, eh old buddy ?
WOW. That's the photo of when I got promoted to Cpl in a place far, far away and a long, long time agoI think civilians would be more shocked about the lack of ceremony in awarding honours snd promotions than serving members! Civilians expect the final scene of Star Wars Episode IV.
View attachment 80956
Obviously can't be that long ago - look at the hairstyle the wookie is wearing, it's clearly post HAIRFORGEN.WOW. That's the photo of when I got promoted to Cpl in a place far, far away and long, long time ago