Updated Army Service Dress project

[rmc_wannabe]

I seem to recall there is a set of Patrols in the FGH museum made in white linen for a RegForce Garry officer in the very early 70s . He was serving with the IJCC or what the body was the was stood up with the American withdrawal from Vietnam.

ICCS - The International Commission for Control and Supervision in Vietnam.

Interesting find on The RCCS heritage page, Corps Standing Orders Vol I 1966.

Lots of pictures of the previous orders of dress, one of which is Summer Patrol Dress - (white tunic and trousers ) .

 

[Eaglelord17]

I suspect it was removed because you can't polish brown rough-out boots that are most commonly worn on a daily basis, rather than to stop people from polishing shoes/boots for parades.

I'm pretty sure a parade order can tell people to polish their boots for the occasion, as it doesn't counter any orders in the dress manual, meerly enhances them.

I am pretty sure it actually originated with the goretex wet weather boots. Troops would use boot polish on them instead of the boot paste and it would over time change them from waterproof to a heavy version of the regular boot.

Gets expensive replacing equipment simply because we fail to do the proper maintenance of it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

ICCS - The International Commission for Control and Supervision in Vietnam.

Interesting find on The RCCS heritage page, Corps Standing Orders Vol I 1966.

Lots of pictures of the previous orders of dress, one of which is Summer Patrol Dress - (white tunic and trousers ) .

View attachment 80816

Wow someone want to be Navy much ?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Wow someone want to be Navy much ?

Hardly,

It's lessons learned from India that a dark blue, woolen uniform is balls to wear in the tropics compared to white linen.

Besides, we have been around for longer than the Naval Service of Canada so who's imitating who?

 

[Edward Campbell]

In the 1960s the white patrol dress uniform was authorized in CA regulations and I suspect every single corps and regiment had it listed in standing orders. Unlike blue patrols it was NOT mandatory for either officers or senior NCOs in any regiment or corps of which I am aware, certainly not in Signals, but a few officer, including the late Captain (later Col) Don Kidd, in the photo, had them because they had been posted too tropical zones.

 

[dimsum]

Besides, we have been around for longer than the Naval Service of Canada so who's imitating who?

Well, it’s really the RCN imitating the RN, but that’s a different story

 

[Furniture]

I am pretty sure it actually originated with the goretex wet weather boots. Troops would use boot polish on them instead of the boot paste and it would over time change them from waterproof to a heavy version of the regular boot.

Gets expensive replacing equipment simply because we fail to do the proper maintenance of it.

I doubt it, the regulations said that you had to have polished boots throughout the entire time the WWBs were issued. Also, the dress regulations had been updated in 2016, if removing polishing to protect WWBs was going to have been done, it would have been then, or in an even older version.

I suspect it was a relic from the days of work/garrison dress, but still served a purpose in the days when black boots were the standard. The same para in Chapter 2 also specified that uniforms had to be pressed I believe. I don't have the patience to hunt down the older version to confirm at this point, though I'm sure someone here has a copy on their computer/phone for quick reference.

 

[dimsum]

I doubt it, the regulations said that you had to have polished boots throughout the entire time the WWBs were issued. Also, the dress regulations had been updated in 2016, if removing polishing to protect WWBs was going to have been done, it would have been then, or in an even older version.

Probably just an old rumour, but weren’t the MK III boots supposed to be treated with some silicone paste rather than actual shoe polish, and people were just ignoring that because tradition or something?

 

[Furniture]

Probably just an old rumour, but weren’t the MK III boots supposed to be treated with some silicone paste rather than actual shoe polish, and people were just ignoring that because tradition or something?

I had been typing that out, and backed off because I wasn't sure how widespread the use of the liquid blackener was. I had some back in the day, but I used polish because it got the results my bosses expected.

I'm not sure if it was for field use to help make the boots more water resistant, or was supposed to be used daily.

 

[WLSC]

Probably just an old rumour, but weren’t the MK III boots supposed to be treated with some silicone paste rather than actual shoe polish, and people were just ignoring that because tradition or something?

If I remember well, it was written on the paper we got with the MK lll or with that black silicone that boots were not to be polished. Like @Furniture said, after trying it I got the same outcome.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Probably just an old rumour, but weren’t the MK III boots supposed to be treated with some silicone paste rather than actual shoe polish, and people were just ignoring that because tradition or something?

Yes, we were issued with a can of liquid silicone that we were meant to rub on our 1st generation combat boots (early 1960s) to keep them waterproof. But the boots did get dirty and scuffed and so we were told use saddle soap to clean them and a wee tiny bit of black boot polish to cover the scuffs.
.
.
.
.
Fast forward a few weeks and the RSM said, 'forget the silicone and saddle soap - just spit shine the whole combat boot.'
Luckily the CO said, "no, not quite, combat boots are to be clean and black but NOT polished." That was how it was until the early 1970s when I put my combat uniforms in a box in the basement for a couple of years.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Yes, we were issued with a can of liquid silicone that we were meant to rub on our 1st generation combat boots (early 1960s) to keep them waterproof. But the boots did get dirty and scuffed and so we were told use saddle soap to clean them and a wee tiny bit of black boot polish to cover the scuffs.
.
.
.
.
Fast forward a few weeks and the RSM said, 'forget the silicone and saddle soap - just spit shine the whole combat boot.'
Luckily the CO said, "no, not quite, combat boots are to be clean and black but NOT polished." That was how it was until the early 1970s when I put my combat uniforms in a box in the basement for a couple of years.

I remember the "no polish on combat boots" and liquid silicone; then came the black liquid silicone (or it might have been in the other order); then came liquid silicone with the liquid "shiny" black stuff to be applied over top of the silicone (like liquid shoe polish). Then I also put my combats away for a couple of years. Then I ended up at the Infantry School (doing phase trg) where we were told no polishing combat boots or ironing combats . . . that was the same day that the OC Leadership Coy (Maj Ike Kennedy) gave his welcoming speech in combats so heavily starched and ironed that they could stand up on their own and boots shone to a mirror finish. After that my standard responses to creased (or unwrinkled) uniforms was "they came out of the dryer that way" or "that's how I folded them" and polished boots elicited "vigorous application of silicone".

 

[dapaterson]

The tins of boot silicone, when poured into the outer steel pot helmet, could be used to soak your raingear, and (briefly) give it a mild ability to somewhat repel water.

 

[Remius]

The tins of boot silicone, when poured into the outer steel pot helmet, could be used to soak your raingear, and (briefly) give it a mild ability to somewhat repel water.

Eff that. The rain gear repelled water just fine. It kept all the moisture in and increased sweat capacity and was perfect at not letting any water leave.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I remember the "no polish on combat boots" and liquid silicone; then came the black liquid silicone (or it might have been in the other order); then came liquid silicone with the liquid "shiny" black stuff to be applied over top of the silicone (like liquid shoe polish). Then I also put my combats away for a couple of years. Then I ended up at the Infantry School (doing phase trg) where we were told no polishing combat boots or ironing combats . . . that was the same day that the OC Leadership Coy (Maj Ike Kennedy) gave his welcoming speech in combats so heavily starched and ironed that they could stand up on their own and boots shone to a mirror finish. After that my standard responses to creased (or unwrinkled) uniforms was "they came out of the dryer that way" or "that's how I folded them" and polished boots elicited "vigorous application of silicone".

Ike was an old chum!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hardly,

It's lessons learned from India that a dark blue, woolen uniform is balls to wear in the tropics compared to white linen.

Besides, we have been around for longer than the Naval Service of Canada so who's imitating who?

Lol hook, line and sinker

 

[FJAG]

Yes, we were issued with a can of liquid silicone that we were meant to rub on our 1st generation combat boots (early 1960s) to keep them waterproof. But the boots did get dirty and scuffed and so we were told use saddle soap to clean them and a wee tiny bit of black boot polish to cover the scuffs.
.
.
.
.
Fast forward a few weeks and the RSM said, 'forget the silicone and saddle soap - just spit shine the whole combat boot.'
Luckily the CO said, "no, not quite, combat boots are to be clean and black but NOT polished." That was how it was until the early 1970s when I put my combat uniforms in a box in the basement for a couple of years.

That went back to the old Mark 1 combat boot (which was a black version of the commercial Greb Kodiak). The leather was porous and the liquid silicone was designed to seep into the pores and thus permeate the leather and seal the whole boot. The prohibition against boot polish was that the polish would fill the pores and thus make it impossible for the silicone to penetrate the leather the way it should. Consequently a polished boot lost its water repellency.

The major flaw with the Mark 1 boot was that the seam that connected the lower leather to the upper was with the lower overlapping the upper so that water dripping down the boot's upper would soak into the seam regardless of the amount of waterproofing applied. Later Marks of the boot reversed the seam helping quite a bit.

At the best of times the water repellency of the boot was to keep damp grass in the mornings from soaking the boot. Rain and puddles were a whole different matter.

We were issued two pairs and generally one was for field use and the other - usually polished - was kept for garrison wear.

 

[Kilted]

I remember the "no polish on combat boots" and liquid silicone; then came the black liquid silicone (or it might have been in the other order); then came liquid silicone with the liquid "shiny" black stuff to be applied over top of the silicone (like liquid shoe polish). Then I also put my combats away for a couple of years. Then I ended up at the Infantry School (doing phase trg) where we were told no polishing combat boots or ironing combats . . . that was the same day that the OC Leadership Coy (Maj Ike Kennedy) gave his welcoming speech in combats so heavily starched and ironed that they could stand up on their own and boots shone to a mirror finish. After that my standard responses to creased (or unwrinkled) uniforms was "they came out of the dryer that way" or "that's how I folded them" and polished boots elicited "vigorous application of silicone".

While I have never been told to iron combats, I have been told to iron the t-shirt. I mean, I also had to polish the bottom of my boots on BMQ.

 

[RangerRay]

When I was in, ironing combats and spit shining combat boots was a thing only the RCA did in Shilo. I’m not sure if anyone else did it east of the Lakehead.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That went back to the old Mark 1 combat boot (which was a black version of the commercial Greb Kodiak). The leather was porous and the liquid silicone was designed to seep into the pores and thus permeate the leather and seal the whole boot. The prohibition against boot polish was that the polish would fill the pores and thus make it impossible for the silicone to penetrate the leather the way it should. Consequently a polished boot lost its water repellency.

The major flaw with the Mark 1 boot was that the seam that connected the lower leather to the upper was with the lower overlapping the upper so that water dripping down the boot's upper would soak into the seam regardless of the amount of waterproofing applied. Later Marks of the boot reversed the seam helping quite a bit.

At the best of times the water repellency of the boot was to keep damp grass in the mornings from soaking the boot. Rain and puddles were a whole different matter.

We were issued two pairs and generally one was for field use and the other - usually polished - was kept for garrison wear.

I liked how the Mk IIIs dried out fairly fast, especially with a brisk polishing and frequent sock changing.

Much better than more insulated/ padded boots IMHO