U.S. 2012 Election

[tomahawk6]

I doubt that another member of the Bush family will be President. As much as I like the family they arent the Kennedy's[I dont see one of them being elected Prez either].

 

[GAP]

I doubt that another member of the Bush family will be President. As much as I like the family they arent the Kennedy's[I dont see one of them being elected Prez either].

They were saying the same thing about GW also....what else is there in the Republican fold....not much...

 

[tomahawk6]

After Romney I suspect a future President will come from the ranks of Governors.They will have to wait until Ryan has had his shot. The bench strength on the Democrat side is pretty shallow. The democrats have painted themselves as the party of the left,and the american people as a whole are fairly conservative.

 

[Edward Campbell]

My perception, as an outsider, is that the Democrats have already morphed into something Harry Truman or even Jimmy Carter would hardly recognize - I suspect that even Bill Clinton is somewhat dismayed; the GOP seems headed in the same direction. This story, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail seems to illustrate that the Republicans are "eating their seed grain:"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-election/ron-paul-delegates-bring-the-ruckus-to-romneys-party/article4504246/

Ron Paul delegates bring the ruckus to Romney’s party

KONRAD YAKABUSKI
TAMPA, FLA. — The Globe and Mail

Published Monday, Aug. 27 2012

Bad blood within the Republican Party is threatening to spoil Mitt Romney’s big moment.

Flocks of Ron Paul delegates have been parading around the Republican National Convention in Tampa, taunting Mr. Romney’s supporters. They accuse Romney operatives of trying to silence them by pushing through rule changes that prevent Mr. Paul’s name from being entered for nomination at the convention.

The rift between the libertarian congressman’s delegates and the Romney people is a nightmare for convention organizers eager put on a show of party unity. And it adds to the pall cast over Mr. Romney’s coming out party as he rebounds from an untimely abortion controversy and griping from GOP moderates about the party’s rightward turn.

Perhaps most damaging of all, the effort to keep Mr. Paul under wraps is depriving the GOP of high-octane activists. Their youth and energy are badly needed in a party whose rapidly aging membership actually remembers when the United States used the gold standard. Mr. Paul’s push to bring it back has excited a new generation of would-be Republicans.

“I see all these young people and, to me, the Republican Party is shutting them out by shutting Ron Paul out,” said Kim Beneli, 57, a Paul delegate from Arizona. “If the Republican Party wants to talk about being the people’s party, we should have a voice instead of being censored.”

Mr. Paul amassed more than two million votes in the Republican primaries, or 11 per cent of all those cast. He finished fourth overall. But unlike runners-up Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, Mr. Paul has not released his delegates to back Mr. Romney.

Convention organizers are so worried Mr. Paul’s delegates could make a scene during the official roll call – the moment when state delegations each shout out their support for the nominee – they have scheduled the vote for Tuesday afternoon. Normally, the roll call takes place at night so that the major broadcast networks can capture the hoopla.

Vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan – a one-time libertarian disciple who once gave his entire staff copies of Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged for Christmas – tried to smooth things over with Mr. Paul’s supporters on Monday.

“We see eye to eye on a lot of issues,” he told Fox News. “So I think, in the final analysis, Ron and his supporters should be very comfortable with us.”

Unfortunately for Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan, they’re not.

The 77-year-old Mr. Paul, who is not seeking re-election to his Texas seat this year, refused the conditions set by the Romney campaign for a speaking slot at the convention. They wanted to vet the speech and asked Mr. Paul to formally endorse Mr. Romney first.

“It wouldn’t be my speech,” Mr. Paul told The New York Times on Sunday. “That would undo everything I’ve done in the past 30 years. I don’t fully endorse him for president.”

Instead, Mr. Paul spoke for an hour on Sunday before an estimated 10,000 supporters at a nearby Tampa stadium, delighting the crowd of young followers with his call for limited government, an end to U.S. military intervention abroad and the abolition of the U.S. central bank.

Organizers announced that the convention will be shown a tribute video to Mr. Paul early Tuesday evening, before the main broadcast networks begin their coverage. Mr. Paul’s son, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, will speak afterwards. But the gesture has done nothing to placate Mr. Paul’s supporters.

“What they need to understand is that we are the future of the Republican Party,” said Paul delegate John Laurie, 36, a firefighter from Arizona. “In November, if Ron Paul is not the Republican nominee, I will write him in” on the ballot.

For his part, Ryan Dickerson, a 27-year-old Paul supporter from Dallas, said he is done with the GOP and intends to vote for Libertarian candidate Ron Johnson this fall.

“I would be willing to stay if they treated him fairly,” he offered. “But they just blew him off.”

Washington state delegate Paul Hess, a Romney supporter, said that instead of complaining, Mr. Paul’s supporters should be heartened by the influence they have had in the GOP. For the first time, he noted, the party platform includes a provision calling for a congressional audit of the Federal Reserve, a measure Mr. Paul has long advocated.

“I would say to the Ron Paul people: ‘That is movement in your direction.’ ”

Mr. Hess’s fellow Washington delegate, Hossein Khorram, concurred.

“Ron Paul brings a great deal of enthusiasm into the Republican Party,” he said. “But in any competition there are losers and winners. This is democracy in motion.”

If the moderates are being pushed out and if they stay home in November, and if the young, enthusiastic Ron Paul libertarians are also shoved aside and also stay home on election day, then who is left to come out and support Mitt Romney? The religious right? They are already suspicious and less than enthusiastic. The "Tea Party?" They don't, really, trust him either. Those who believe that no black man should ever be POTUS? Yes, I guess they'll come out ...

 

[observor 69]

For amusement:

Where Do You Fit?

The US Political Party Test

LINK

 

[Edward Campbell]

For amusement:

Where Do You Fit?

The US Political Party Test

LINK

You will (probably) not be surprised to learn that I am a either an Average Independent or a Moderate Republican:

Overall I fall about halfway between "Average Independent" and "Moderate Republican;" on Economic Issues I am to the right of the "Average Republican" and, in fact, quite close to a "Conservative Republican;" but on Social Issues I fall quite close to "Very Liberal."

Canadian, eh? 


Edit: formatting - which 'concealed' two words

 

[vonGarvin]

I scored far to the right.  Further than the Tea Party.  Where do I sign for my SS uniform?  :-\


Of course I take these tests with a very large grain of salt.

 

[observor 69]

I scored far to the right.  Further than the Tea Party.  Where do I sign for my SS uniform?  :-\


Of course I take these tests with a very large grain of salt.

Seek help NOW !  ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

Seek help NOW !  ;D

Because of the salt?  ;D

 

[cupper]

Because of the salt?  ;D

Yeah, go with that.

 

[Bass ackwards]

I scored far to the right.  Further than the Tea Party.  Where do I sign for my SS uniform?  :-\

Uh oh... where's that uniform shop at Herr Hauptman ?

Geez, the CBC was right. Who knew...?

 

[Brad Sallows]

All this talk of "where will the moderates go" is peculiar.  Mitt Romney is the moderate candidate.  His true nature is closer to the political centre than that of Barack Obama, who wears a moderate facade only when it confers a personal political advantage.

 

[Edward Campbell]

All this talk of "where will the moderates go" is peculiar.  Mitt Romney is the moderate candidate.  His true nature is closer to the political centre than that of Barack Obama, who wears a moderate facade only when it confers a personal political advantage.

I agree, but he has had to campaign father and father to the right to win the nomination and, I guess, to keep the GOP "base" onside.

 

[Redeye]

For amusement:

Where Do You Fit?

The US Political Party Test

LINK

That put me slightly left of the average Democrat, but it's a pretty narrow span of questions. I suspect being an atheist and for marriage equality pretty much negated the more conservative answers I had. But there's not really enough questions to make a fair assessment.

 

[Infanteer]

Unsurprisingly, I am almost smack in the middle with average independents, leaning just to the right a bit.

My economic outlook was far to the right, more than an average republican while my social outlook was at the farthest edge to the left - I guess because I ain't bothered by gay marriage and didn't believe in God I was considered a socialist....

 

[Journeyman]

Between not having a mythical deity to tell me that gays can't marry, while reducing government pestering of those actually working for a living.....my average ended up amongst young Black Hispanics    :stars:

I do remember, however, back when PBS was a credible news provider.

 

[Sythen]

That put me slightly left of the average Democrat, but it's a pretty narrow span of questions. I suspect being an atheist and for marriage equality pretty much negated the more conservative answers I had. But there's not really enough questions to make a fair assessment.

I was put far right, almost to the Tea Party but also answered for marriage equality and that I am an atheist. Agreed, though, that this is just a fun little thing and by no means a fair assessment. One thing I found interesting is that "Certain Obama" is left of the average Democrat, where "Certain Romney" is bang on average Republican.

 

[Journeyman]

I guess the "test's" key value is in putting this thread where most of the repetitive posts have been leading it -- Radio Chatter.

 

[Old Sweat]

And I came down all over the place, which maybe is par for the course for a gunner of my generation.

I scored as a conservative Republican overall, but socially I was an average democrat while on the economic side I was very conservative.

Although I believe in God, I do not feel that other peoples' marriage choices are any business of mine.

Radio chatter indeed!

 

[a_majoor]

A bit of a backstage ook at the GOP convention. I am slightly in awe of the resources devoted to rhetoric, since I am more inclined to look for facts, figures and historical analogies, but my personal leanings are in a minority here in Canada, much less the United States. The art of rhetoric (in the ancient Greek sense of the word) is also more important in the United States, since political oration is a widely admired art in American politics, and good or even great speeches count for a lot:

http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2012/08/28/what-counts-as-failure/?singlepage=true

What Counts as Failure?
August 28, 2012 - 6:34 am - by Roger Kimball
     
I spent several hours yesterday in the Tampa Bay Times Forum, the huge hall in which Republican delegates will confer their official blessing upon Mitt Romney later this week. It was an odd day. It was to have been the first full day of conference activities, but the media succeeded in whipping up public hysteria about the weather to such an extent that RNC chairman Reince Priebus decided to err on the side of caution and to reschedule most of Monday’s speeches later in the week.

The result was that yesterday had a sort of half-holiday feel to it. The Forum was a bustling hive of activity. Musicians were rehearsing their acts — the national anthem, rock songs about virtue and freedom, etc. — and conference planners and journalists hummed up and down the rows of empty seats. I was in one of several small groups who were given a tour backstage to view the magic workshops in which the spectacle of the convention was being forged, rehearsed, planned, and plotted. The miles of digital cabling, run along metal trays hung from the ceiling, reinforced the sense of technological bravura that is behind a contemporary political spectacle. The long corridors with their honeycomb of rehearsal suites and green rooms, the LED glow of the control room, and hurrying minions clutching sheafs of paper as they jabbered into their iPhones all reinforced the sense that one was deep in the bowels of a battleship preparing for general quarters. This event was being planned down to the last placard and cue-the-applause option. The thousands upon thousands of red, white, and blue balloons congregated grape-like in nets in the rafters of the great hall all but trembled with anticipation. At the appointed moment, someone would push a button or pull a string and they would all come cascading down in cheerful triumph. What I was witnessing were the final touches in preparation for a great piece of political choreography. How many hundreds of people were involved in putting this together? How many thousands of man-hours were required to synchronize all the moving parts, the speeches, the audience, the music, the look and feel of the stage, the auditorium? Even the preparations constituted an impressive performance.

It was no ordinary performance, however. A big opera at the Met requires a lot of planning and rehearsal of a not dissimilar sort. But the end of that performance is a couple hours of aesthetic delectation. The end of the preparations I was witnessing is the future of America.

That sounds portentous, but only because the stakes in this election are so high. I have never been particularly impressed by Karl Popper’s idea that a theory must be “falsifiable” in order to be genuinely scientific. I won’t go into the reasons for my skepticism now (though the curious will find more on the subject here) other than to say that binding the pursuit of truth to the presence of untruth is a mug’s game. Still, despite my reservations about Popper’s theory, I do believe that it touches upon a key insight that is applicable not only to “the logic of scientific discovery” (as Popper put it) but also to everyday empirical reality. For example, when we ask whether a certain policy has been a success, we often begin by observing the ways in which it has failed to live up to expectations. Our criteria for success are at least in part organized around our definition of failure.

All that may sound abstract, but it has a number of concrete applications, some of which are vividly pertinent to the spectacle now unfolding at the Republican National Convention. High up along one wall at the Forum is a huge digital display on which the federal debt ticks its way toward $16 trillion. That by itself ought to be enough to assure the defeat of Barack Obama, but in really it is merely one data point in a litany of failure. Last night at dinner, I expressed my surprise to a friend that the polls were as close as they were. By any factual measure, I said, Obama’s administration had been an extraordinary failure. Median household income had plummeted nearly 5 percent since 2009, the year Obama promised that, if only Congress would approve the stimulus package, he would have the unemployment rate down to 5.6 percent by now, the summer of 2012, by which time he would also have halved the annual deficit. Et very much cetera. The only promise I can think of that Obama has kept is to make energy prices “skyrocket.” That he has well and truly accomplished. But otherwise, I asked as I made my way through the Caprese salad, hasn’t his record been abysmal? And doesn’t this mean the polls should point to an overwhelming victory for Romney?

Maybe, said my dinner companion, but remember that most people really have no idea what you’re talking about when you drone on about “median income.” You tell them the federal debt is $16 trillion and they shrug. What does that have to do with tomorrow’s lunch? The answer, “quite a lot, actually,” won’t cut it because numbers, especially large numbers, impress most people as mystical, by which I mean mystifying, talismans. If a gallon of gas has shot up from an average of $1.85 to over $4.00 a gallon during Obama’s tenure (which it has), that is just barely graspable. But do not ask the electorate to wrap its mind around such a prodigy as an annual deficit of $1.5 trillion. Those numbers lack traction and, besides, haven’t we been hearing about the deficit ad nauseam for decades?

You see what we’re up against. I reluctantly acknowledged that my friend was right about the relative imperviousness of the electorate. Lectures about economics are not going to inspire them. Dramatizations about economic peril, however, might just do the trick. Which is where all that choreography and convention planning comes in.

Rhetoric, said Aristotle, is the art of persuasion. It involves not having the best argument, necessarily, but of putting your case in the most effective and affecting way. That’s what this gigantic spectacle is all about. It may seem like some hypertrophied theatrical event. And in some ways it is. But it is more than that. It is theater employed not for entertainment but for awakening. Will it work? The mood here is energetic and upbeat. We’ll know in a couple of days whether that energy and cheerfulness is communicable. If, as I suspect, the answer is yes, the question will not be whether Romney will win. As my dinner companion last night put it, if he wins at all, it will likely be by a landslide. It might not happen. There is still time for an “October surprise,” which might come in September or even early November. It won’t, however, be in the shape of a stupid remark by a Missouri Senate candidate, much as the Democrats would like to pretend it  could. Nor will Chris Matthews’ deployment of the race card work. Right now, anyway, the horizon looks clear. My astrology is a bit rusty, but were I a prophesying man I’d say that the stars are aligning to bring not just a Romney victory but an historic rout.

As for why we should be interested in history, the real Thucydides wrote:

The absence of romance in my history will, I fear, detract somewhat from its interest, but if it is judged worthy by those inquirers who desire an exact knowledge of the past as an aid to the understanding of the future, which in the course of human things must resemble if it does not reflect it, I shall be content.
{/quote]