Trying to start a reserve unit

[CH1]

No, the worst thing we have done in the last 50 years, is to allow bureaucrats to say what is good & bad for the country.  They usually think in terms of what they can rape & pillage for themselves first leaving the scraps for every body else to fight over.

Cheers

 

[vangemeren]

I'm just curious, how do they determine what type of unit (ie infantry, artillery, etc) is going to be created and the size of the unit (a platoon, company or battalion). Why would one type of unit be located in a particular town and not another.

 

[redleafjumper]

Van Gemeren, there are two answers to your question.  The first one is cynical and goes this way.  You have a cabinet minister in your riding who is lobbied to put a reserve unit in a government friendly area.  It happens relatively quickly without much fuss or need for studies (I recall a naval reserve unit being formed this way several years ago in Quebec, but the details are lost to my memory).  Such a unit may or may not be formed based on perceived needs of the Canadian Forces. 

The second answer is fanciful, after decades of comprehensive study, including white papers, recommendations from military commanders, local notables, politicians of all stripes and repeated lobbying and arm-twisting a unit meeting the precise needs of the Canadian Forces and the local community is formed.  An armouries is constructed that is well thought out with an indoor range, classrooms, messes and institutes, secure weapons storage, offices, plenty of storage space, possibly a museum, showers washrooms, repair facilities, QM and fenced vehicle park.  It may even have a barracks room to sleep a platoon or larger unit.

Every city in Canada that is also occupied by a university has a reserve unit in close proximity, oh, except for Prince George, BC.  Strategic considerations and geographic stability for staging and growth are included in the process as well as ready access to existing or possible training area would also be considered.

 

[Blackhorse7]

Which, redleafjumper, is true, and sucks.  There has been talk of an infantry regiment being started here, but I just don't see it happening.  Not that it matters to me, because as a current RCMP member, I could not serve anyway... :rage:

 

[I_Drive_Planes]

I'd really like to see a reserve unit in Prince George, I'm a CivU Officer Cadet (or rather I will be when I am sworn in on Wednesday) in PG and volunteering there would give me an opportunity to gain valuable experience outside of summer training/OJT.  Also I am heavily involved in Search and Rescue, and a reserve unit would give us trained bodies to assist on larger searches and civil emergencies that we attend to.  As a Ground Search Team Leader I have babysat far too many well meaning civillians that come out to help, but can't handle themselves in the bush.    It is really frustrating to me that we don't have a unit because Prince George is a great location for one, and would benefit greatly from one, It's win-win for both the forces and the community.

Planes

 

[pbi]

Every city in Canada that is also occupied by a university has a reserve unit in close proximity, oh, except for Prince George, BC.   Strategic considerations and geographic stability for staging and growth are included in the process as well as ready access to existing or possible training area would also be considered

I think you are crediting the system with too much rationality. Mississauga, a city of over three quarters of a million people immediately west of Toronto, is home to a large campus of the UofT, but had no Reserve unit until the recent LFRR project to open a company of the TorScots (?). As far as "...Strategic considerations and geographic stability for staging and growth are included in the process as well as ready access to existing or possible training area would also be considered...", I would say that

a) those factors have next to nothing to do with the current distribution of Res unit by type and location;   and

b) my experience with LFRR thus far tells me that although those factors may be enunciated as the driving considerations, there has been very little real change in location or type of Res unit, and it is very clear to me that other, less visible factors are definitely at play (see my earlier post...)

However, the Warning Order for the review of the current Army Reserve establishment has just been sent out to CBGs, units, Honoraries and "friends of the Reserve" such as Reserve2000. This WngO states that the ARE and the current distribution of units will be reviewed to determine, from all stakeholders, what we really need and where we need it. IMHO, if this is done intelligently, with the serving Army Reserve holding the majority vote (as opposed to various sidewalk superintendants) then we could be much better off. I know, for example, that in our Bde (38 CBG) we have a very illogical and unsustainable distribution that cries out for adjustment.

Cheers.

 

[redleafjumper]

PBI, I confess that my crediting the system with rationality was at least somewhat "tongue in cheek".  Hopefully, this new review will produce some positive results that will work for all concerned.  We seem to be very much of the same mind on how this happens.

Redleafjumper

 

[pbi]

PBI, I confess that my crediting the system with rationality was at least somewhat "tongue in cheek".   Hopefully, this new review will produce some positive results that will work for all concerned.   We seem to be very much of the same mind on how this happens.

Redleafjumper

What.....awww-no way! Well, never miss a chance to ponticate, I always say (several times..)

Cheers

 

[Vigilant]

I think you are crediting the system with too much rationality. Mississauga, a city of over three quarters of a million people immediately west of Toronto, is home to a large campus of the UofT, but had no Reserve unit until the recent LFRR project to open a company of the TorScots (?)

The key difference here is that Mississauga is right next to Toronto, and you could drive to Fort York or MPA in less than 20 minutes from anywhere in Mississauga. Prince George is a little more isolated.

 

[redleafjumper]

Prince George isolated?  From where, Toronto?  Prince George, as stated in previous posts, is very near the centre of BC.  Within 2 hours drive of and including Prince George live over 250,000 people.  A flight to/from Vancouver is a mere hour away, and Prince George is located on the junction of the Fraser and Nechako rivers, as well as Highway 16 and 97.  Prince George is hardly isolated and especially not in terms of a realistic population to support the formation of a company or larger size reserve unit(s).

 

[Vigilant]

Prince George isolated?  From where, Toronto?  Prince George, as stated in previous posts is very near the centre of BC.  Within 2 hours drive of and including Prince George live over 250,000 people.  A flight to/from Vancouver is a mere hour away, and Prince George is located on the junction of the Fraser and Nechako rivers, as well as Highway 16 and 97.  Prince George is hardly isolated and especially not in terms of a realistic population to support the formation of a company or larger size reserve unit(s).

Sorry, I need to clarify. I meant isolated from other units. My point was that there are options for people who live in Mississauga because of the many Regiments that are based in Toronto, but not so for Prince George because there aren't any nearby.

I can't recall how many Units there are that are within an hour of Mississauga, but it is in the dozens.

I support your project and hope it succeeds.

 

[redleafjumper]

Thanks for the clarification Vigilant, I didn't mean to jump down your throat.  It is true that Prince George is a long ways from existing units.
The closest unit is the Rocky Mountain Rangers in Kamloops, about a four hour drive from Prince George.  A trip that long isn't exactly conducive to attending a parade during the week.  The only other existing reserve presence includes CIC officers of area cadet corps and a few Canadian Ranger Patrols in outlying communities. 

Thanks for the support!

 

[Vigilant]

No problem, I can empathize with how frustrated you are.

Since there is such a focus on the numbers right now, do you have a list of pers who would join the Coy if it was formed? I mean, if you had a list with 50 people who sign a letter of intent to join pending the establishment of a CF presence it might push things through. I mean, cost to benefit ratio here, why spend money on recruiting to meet numbers if you have 50 people who would join for a nominal outlay? And the startup costs are lessened because a lot of the people already have the leadership qualifications, right?

 

[redleafjumper]

A few years ago when there seemed to be some momentum, a list was created based on persons in the area presently on supp list and others who had expressed interest.  This was created at the suggestion of the then 39 Bgde CoS LCol Stutt.  There were a wide range of MOCs and rank (pte to Major) represented and lots of keen civilians.  Unfortunately nothing came of that process and such momentum fades with time.  There is not much use to rebuilding that list at this time without building up false hopes yet again.  Such a list could be quickly re-established given some interest by the CF and political masters in forming a unit.

 

[Vigilant]

Still, it would be pretty impressive if you could field a coy right away. And better yet if you could back it up with names and such.

How big was the list? If you could use it as a starting point, then add on the new students from the new school, it might help. I think it would be very effective to have all of the little arguments covered in the proposal, and I see you having to basically counter all of their arguments not to set up the coy.

Have you considered setting up a website for the cause, and lobbying the provincial government as well?

Maybe instead of saying that you are starting a new unit, rephrase it as extending the Rangers. Perhaps there are connotations among the higher ups.

Forming a new coy seems like a good way of leveraging existing resources and enlarging the community footprint.

 

[redleafjumper]

There were 72 people on the list.  We had a command cadre of two majors, a LCmdr, one captain, a Lieutenant or two and a handful of senior and junior NCO's and ptes as well as others who were interested.  It was and is clear that we could field a company without much trouble.  The varied MOCs and out-dated service are an issue.  The provincial governments, both past and present have expressed support in writing for the project.  If you read the earlier posts you will see that adding to the rangers and in fact just transferring the URL of an existing nil strength company has been the main push.

 

[redleafjumper]

As I watch the hurricane damage unfold in the southern states, I am resolved more than ever to work towards getting a reserve unit established in my community.  Besides the obvious military taskings, the aid-to-the-civil-power role is critically important in times of trouble.

 

[redleafjumper]

Had a fellow come by to see me about this project today.   The local MPs referred him to me as he had written them about starting a unit in Prince George.   He was focusing on the Canadian Ranger programme as there is very little infrastructure required.   The objection to that idea here has always been that Prince George is excluded from that programme as it is a major city and thus properly PRes turf.  

It is funny that this issue is popularly supported by everyone except those who have the authority to do something about it.   A change of government is looking like the only way that it will happen at this point, but even with that possibility lobbying efforts continue.  

(edited to correct typo)

 

[Infanteer]

I sure hope they make you the CO of this unit if and when they do this - you seem to have invested alot of time and effort into it.  Other than that, you can always take the Hammy Gault or Lord Strathcona approach and fund the unit yourself. 

 

[redleafjumper]

Ha Ha!  Thanks Infanteer, unfortunately those guys in Camrose had the right ticket and I suspect that they aren't interested.  I'd have to do much better at contract negotiations to be able to stand up a unit from my personal fortune (or lack thereof...).