Retired AF Guy
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The War in Ukraine
- Thread starter Bruce Monkhouse
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TacticalTea
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Nota: Ukraine gets about 100k able-bodied males turning 18 every year. Russia, roughly three times as many. Which in turn roughly approximates the number of yearly Russian casualties according to Ukraine.
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Russia's defence pact with NK about to turn the Russian-Ukraine war into a NK-SK proxy war
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One would have thought that the Israelis would have done that pre 7 Oct, as they could have really done a number of Iranian drones etc and kept Iran sending stuff to Russia as opposed to Hez, Ham etc.
GR66
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All restrictions need to be taken off the Ukrainian use of Western-supplied weapons. In order to defeat Russia the Ukrainians need the ability to hit everything that supports the Russian war effort - factories, airfields, rail lines, oil infrastructure...everything. The Russians need to be hurt everywhere Ukraine can reach, not just on the front lines.
Maxman1
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Maxman1
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US to Redirect All Patriot Air Defense Orders to Ukraine
united24media.com
Colin Parkinson
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He looks quite unwell, hopefully
Maxman1
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That's Kim Jung Il. He's been dead for years.
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South Korea steps up even more
Colin Parkinson
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All them Kims look alike to me....
I think Russia will ultimately hold/defend the areas it's taken, and any territory regained by Ukraine will be negotiated for.
I think another question is - why does Ukraine want that territory back so badly?
We forget that Ukraine had been dropping arty on the ethnic Russians who live in those regions for the last decade or so...
Does Ukraine really want all of that territory back? Because that territory comes with people, and those people are ethnic Russians who were never warmly recepted as Ukranians by Ukranians or the Ukraine government...
(If we look at the battle lines of May 29, 2023 and June 1, 2024...those lines haven't moved a whole lot...)
Damnit, I'm torn on this...
From an immediate tactical perspective, I'd have to agree.
And Ukraine has been doing pretty good job of attacking Russian assets far from the front lines...everything from sinking a submarine while it was dockside, sinking the Moskva (sp??) to taking out fighter jets and helicopters on the ground at their respective bases, and even a decent chunk of Russia's AWACS planes.
Part of a good defense is eliminating the enemy's ability to conduct operations in the first place. So Ukraine attacking rail lines, bridges, and forcing Russia to divert forces to Africa & Syria are all clever moves which have really benefitted Ukraine's battlefield efforts.
But from a strategic perspective, I'm not sure if that's a great idea...
Just last week Ukraine took out one of Russia's early warning radar sites (which is part of their strategic command, and was used to detect & track any missiles launched at Russia. It's primary focus was on ICBM tracking) - and Ukraine also wants to start hitting targets deep inside Russia using the latest version of ATACMS
Russia can now claim they have no idea where missiles will land (or even if they've been fired...)
So now Russia can't monitor that aspect of the battlespace as well as it used to be able to, while at the same time they should also be expecting random long range missile launches from that same direction.
Tactically smart? Yes
Strategically smart? Hell no
I don't think a lot of people understand just how aggressively the west seems to be pushing this conflict towards some sort of nuclear incident
(from the Russian perspective - but with 6000 nuclear warheads & this conflict very much starting to fit their use as per Russian nuclear doctrine, their perspective matters A LOT...)
Eaglelord17
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Your question starts with the wrong premise, asking why they want that land back. The question should be why should they give up that land in the first place?
Well for starters it is their land, much in the same way Quebec is part of Canada and much like Quebec when not devastated it is a substantial part of their economy. They negotiated a treaty 30 years ago to protect their sovereignty with Russia, recognizing that territory directly as their land in both nations eyes.
They also have the issue of if they surrender any land to Russia that just proves to them they can take land through conquest in the modern era. It would give Russia reason to invade them again and again until there is no more Ukrainian state.
There wouldn’t be a Ukraine right now if Russia’s initial invasion wasn’t so poorly executed. I also don’t think the Russians would make the same mistakes a second time if they were to do it again. Any peace signed without going back to the original borders will result in another war in a few years after Russia has built back up.
Ukraine has a lot to think about, it isn’t just about whats best for the moment, its about whats best for the long term. Preventing Russia from having Crimea and the East is in their best interests.
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Along those same lines, the Baltic countries have a significant number of ethnic Russians living in their territories (along with many, many other former SU countries), should those countries be 'forced' to give up land that is within their sovereign territory because they contain X% of citizens that don't want to be citizens? Please remember that Stalin moved hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians into areas of the SU that had non-Russian ethnicities that do not want to be a part of the SU. The Ukraine and the Baltics are perfect examples of this, along with a large number of other former SU countries.
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Are you F’ing serious?
Riddle yourself the reason Ukraine was forced to fight in the ‘breakaway’ areas — because Russia had committed troops in their little green men method — heck looks who was running the offensive for Russia back then in Ukraine.
Would you consider abandoning our territory and citizens to and aggressive, oppressive and hostile foreign power if we were invaded?
Straight up disinformation. Russia fomented a faux insurrection by infiltrating their fighters. A lot of the original population has actually fled to Ukraine proper. And a good chunk of those who remain don't support the Russian government. Being Russian speaking doesn't automatically make them enthusiastic about living under the Russian regime. Lastly, a good chunk of the current residents who do support the Russian governments are Russian nationals enlisted to help ethnically cleanse these areas.
I don't think folks like you understand how gullible and susceptible you are to hostile propaganda.
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