The US Presidency 2020
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QV said:
Not liking that a number of Trump’s associates and cronies have been charged, tried, and convicted of criminal offences, with more still making their way through the system, doesn’t make it not true. Sorry, but your boy surrounded yourself with some less than reputable individuals. I’m sure you can ‘what about’ th hell out of this and refer us to some podcasts, but that does not erase the plethora of varying criminal charges late and the mounting pile of convictions from his inner circle. It appears that he’s very fortunate to enjoy some of the u inquest legal protections extended to the presidency. His corporate and... ‘charity’... ventures suggest that he may not be entirely squeaky clean.
QV
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When they prove Trump colluded with Russia or committed any other treasonous act, I will capitulate and be happy to see him dealt with, but that hasn’t happened. Manafort’s fraud from years before Trump are not relevant to the Russia collusion hoax and you know it. Flynn as incoming NSA had every right to speak with foreign reps. The Flynn case has unravelled and revealed how the former admin directed the hit job.
When you’re willing to discuss the very real crimes committed by the former administration, investigation ongoing and expanding, I’m happy to engage. I thought you’d be quite interested and critical of the abuses by high level LE and other people in authoritative positions, yet you ignore that part.
Your boy Mueller with the vast powers as a special counsel and unlimited resources failed to find anything on Trump that was even impeachable let alone criminally liable. Think about that. If Trump had farted in the wrong direction they’d be stringing him up (impeachment confirmed by senate, resign, criminal liability). If there was criminal culpability, Mueller would have reported that so Pelosi had the ammunition to impeach. Nothing like that happened.
When you’re willing to talk about something more substantive than an obvious hit piece by the Atlantic or NY Times, let’s do it.
When you’re willing to discuss the very real crimes committed by the former administration, investigation ongoing and expanding, I’m happy to engage. I thought you’d be quite interested and critical of the abuses by high level LE and other people in authoritative positions, yet you ignore that part.
Your boy Mueller with the vast powers as a special counsel and unlimited resources failed to find anything on Trump that was even impeachable let alone criminally liable. Think about that. If Trump had farted in the wrong direction they’d be stringing him up (impeachment confirmed by senate, resign, criminal liability). If there was criminal culpability, Mueller would have reported that so Pelosi had the ammunition to impeach. Nothing like that happened.
When you’re willing to talk about something more substantive than an obvious hit piece by the Atlantic or NY Times, let’s do it.
QV said:
A republican senate would never have impeached even if there was video of Trump shooting someone. You know that.
Regardless of any evidence, his supporters will never believe anything as everything is fake news, a hit piece or made up.
The latest piece only reinforces the fraud Trump is and how solid his base is in believing him regardless.
The expression here applies very well to Trump supporters:
“It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they’ve been fooled.”
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I guess one could also apply that saying to those whom believe modern-day media is actually that.
QV said:
This is a thread about the current US presidency, so I’ll stick with that. And just to pick at a nuance, Trump *was* impeached. Impeachment happens in the house. Quite predictably the Senate turned on almost exact party lines on the matter.
Flynn and Manafort are but two of the numerous members of Trump’s circle who are now convicted criminals, not least of all his own lawyer, for acts committed in the course of helping his client. There are several others as you well know, and Trump himself and his family continue to face considerable legal scrutiny on various matters in various jurisdictions. I’ve always felt there’s some merit to the concept of ‘being judged by the company you keep’. I feel it fair to draw inferences about Trump’s character and ethics based on the actions of those doing his bidding.
Now, on the plus side, we’ve gained some clarity in the past few days- we at least now know they when he referred to himself as a ‘stable genius’, neither should be interpreted as meaning ‘financially’. Not looking for for ‘legally’, either. That IRS audit and the findings regarding the money he funnelled to his kids will be interesting.
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Brihard said:
And for context, this is the US Senate's definition of impeachment:
Just like there is a difference between charging and convicting someone, there is a difference between impeaching and convicting a federal official. So while President Trump wasn't convicted, he certainly was impeached and will always have that on record.
https://www.senate.gov/reference/Index/Impeachment.htm
QV
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Dimsum said:
So he was charged (impeached) on party lines, than he was acquitted on party lines. Entirely a frivolous political circus.
That is fair. I will start a new thread where we can discuss the legal malfeasance in pursuit of Trump.
Disagree. There were/are enough "never Trump" and political establishment GOP that could have changed the senate outcome, key to that is there had to be real reasons justifiable to their constituencies. But Trump's actual successes, promises kept, the fizzling of the Mueller report, and demonstrated MSM/FBI/DOJ malfeasance has probably changed a lot of minds.
The election of Trump broke the establishment on both sides. He was against some significant headwinds this past term but has largely survived. I'm curious to see what an unleashed Trump will do in the next term.
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Retired AF Guy said:
and
Brihard said:
Hey guys
Okay, you can call me wrong but here are facts to support my statement
Manafort was convicted of eight felonies, including tax fraud, defrauding banks, and hiding bank accounts from authorities. Judge Ellis also went out of his way today to publicly proclaim that Manafort’s sentencing has nothing to do with “Russian collusion”
https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2019/03/07/breaking-surprise-move-paul-manafort-sentenced-just-four-years-prison/
Longtime Trump associate Roger Stone was sentenced to 4o months in prison for crimes that include obstruction of justice, lying to Congress and witness tampering. (Their claim that Stone merited a long sentence due to "witness intimidation" was nonsense, too, given that the witness said he wasn't threatened.)
carter Page was never arrested or indicted for his activities. The reality is that he was a CIA asset “engaged in clandestine intelligence activities” not for Russia, but for America, and this minor bit of information was deliberately omitted from his FISA warrant application and three renewals. And where does Page go to get his reputation back?
As for Flynn, aside from the illegality of deceiving the FISA court, and the subsequent effort to stop proceedings, his case is now being decided by a judge who is openly hostile to Flynn and reminds me of the time-honoured military tradition "March in the guilty b*****d"
Other Trump associates convicted or sentenced in the Mueller investigation
Michael Cohen: Received a three-year prison sentence in Dec. 2018 for tax evasion, bank fraud, lying to Congress and campaign finance violations.
Former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos: Convicted of lying to investigators about about Russian contacts. He served 12 days in prison and in October, filed to run for former Rep. Katie Hill's California seat.
former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates pled guilty to one count of conspiracy against the United States and one count of making false statements to the FBI and to the Special Counsel at a meeting last month. criminal information which alleged Gates and Manafort laundered tens of millions of dollars that they earned through their work for the Ukrainian government.
All in all, I'd say you guys are in error
Brad Sallows
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People continue to talk past each other about the Mueller investigation. There are two primary factions:
1. People who emphasize the number of indictments and convictions, and sometimes name the people, and even sometimes go so far as to enumerate the crimes.
2. People who emphasize the shortfall of findings and actions related to the central point of the whole mess - conspiring with Russians to influence the election.
Conveniently, both factions, within the limited lanes of their respective propaganda, and provided they keep the terms of discussion narrow enough, are correct.
It was very, very unwise to initiate and then allow a prolonged and broad investigation based on flimsy priors and easily impeachable evidence. In an era of "anything done once is a precedent, nay, tradition", there will be future regret over the failure to legislate some sort of hard stop on it being done again.
1. People who emphasize the number of indictments and convictions, and sometimes name the people, and even sometimes go so far as to enumerate the crimes.
2. People who emphasize the shortfall of findings and actions related to the central point of the whole mess - conspiring with Russians to influence the election.
Conveniently, both factions, within the limited lanes of their respective propaganda, and provided they keep the terms of discussion narrow enough, are correct.
It was very, very unwise to initiate and then allow a prolonged and broad investigation based on flimsy priors and easily impeachable evidence. In an era of "anything done once is a precedent, nay, tradition", there will be future regret over the failure to legislate some sort of hard stop on it being done again.
Brad Sallows
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I'll be interested to see how people handle this news. An excellent opportunity for those who declaim the erosion of civility in politics to demonstrate their sincerity.
OldSolduer
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Brad Sallows said:
I quite agree. While no fan of The Donald I hope he recovers.
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Remius said:
Could this be a stunt to support his position on COVID?
SupersonicMax said:
This is not a stunt at all mostly for the following reason.
Trump wants to desperately shift this campaign away from COVID. None of this helps that aim at all. If anything it will cement this as a referendum on his handling of it.
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