The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Good2Golf]

We will have enough I&W to disperse if that materializes.

Like enough time to disperse with an RuNF SSGN-launched *Kalibr or Granit dumping a load of UCAV out IVO the NWP near future F-35 FOBs?

Seems like our allies to the south share the same assessment for their F-35s.

Yeah, but they can do something materially about it with measures greater than just some Questionnaires checking ID at the main gate…

 

[SupersonicMax]

Like enough time to disperse with an RuNF SSGN-launched Kalinr or Granit dumping a load of UCAV out IVO the NWP near future F-35 FOBs?



Yeah, but they can do something materially about it with measures greater than just some Questionnaires checking ID at the main gate…

Again, it’s assessing the risk of something actually happening vs the consequences of not accepting such a risk. Would you be willing to delay the F-35s by 10 years to put them in HAS?

 

[Good2Golf]

Dude, Bagotville and Cold Lake are at least 700 nm from any approach, which is 70 minutes at M1.0, assuming the platforms are undetected prior to being overland. We’d know.

So you guys won’t be doing the YEV and YRT thing in the future?

 

[SupersonicMax]

So you guys won’t be doing the YEV and YRT thing in the future?

We’re talking about infrastructure in Bagotville and Cold Lake.

 

[Good2Golf]

We’re talking about infrastructure in Bagotville and Cold Lake.

I thought we were talking about F-35 related infrastructure, which is not limited to just YOD and YBG.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I thought we were talking about F-35 related infrastructure, which is not limited to just YOD and YBG.

The announcement was for the Bagotville QRA. The FSF and associated hangarette are only a Bagotville/Cold Lake thing.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Again, it’s assessing the risk of something actually happening vs the consequences of not accepting such a risk. Would you be willing to delay the F-35s by 10 years to put them in HAS?

Why would HAS construction delay F-35 delivery? Build them as we go.

Look at a map. What is that big body of water to the east of it? Do you suppose the Atlantic Ocean is is free of cruise missile capable SSGNs?

How about Comox, Goose, Iqaluit, and Inuvik- are they 700NM inland? You want to bet you can get airborne before an sub or air launched hypersonic gets to you? I am not saying a HAS would survive that, but an unarmoured hangar definitely won’t.

Why does Australia bother with HAS at their fighter bases? Surely, they have all the I&W in the world, right?

Nothing personal, but I am getting sick of nobody taking force protection/force hardening serious in Canada because the prevailing wisdom is that no one would “dare” attack North America…

 

[SupersonicMax]

Why would HAS construction delay F-35 delivery? Build them as we go.

Because of many factors:

1- The design of a HAS is a lot more complex than a hangarette
2- We don’t have enough space to put them. We’d need to open a new area on the base which would require new/much expanded services (sewer, water, power, etc).
3- The construction of a HAS is a lot more involved than the construction of a metal shelter

We can’t build as we go. We need the shelters as aircraft arrive as we cannot leave them outside and we need s place to maintain them.

RAAF Williamtown doesn’t have HAS. Also, Australia doesn’t have the US in their backyard (and a NORAD-like agreement) .

I could also make sure my house is tornado-proof. There is a possibility that a tornado would hit my house (there was actually a small one nearby a couple of weeks ago). But I don’t think the risk warrants the extra investment.

 

[SupersonicMax]

You want to bet you can get airborne before an sub or air launched hypersonic gets to you?

Oh, I can start and launch a Hornet pretty quickly. An F-35 is even easier.

 

[dimsum]

My fear isn’t a UCAV coming from an SSGN parked on the east coast.

My fear is a bunch (I won’t say “swarm” so as to not conflate UAS being able to team - I’m just talking about a bunch of stuff) of small UAS carrying a small payload of whatever launched from 10m from the base fence.

Or what could have happened to JBLE last December:

Mysterious Drones Swarmed Langley AFB For Weeks

The unidentified drones were such an issue that assets were called in from around the government, including a NASA WB-57 high-altitude jet.

www.twz.com

 

[KevinB]

Oh, I can start and launch a Hornet pretty quickly. An F-35 is even easier.

You are assuming significant warning. A few small UAS launched from a van ‘down the road’ (or 60-82mm Mortars) could fairly easily FUBAR the hangarettes and the rather spendy stuff inside before anyone is even near a plane.

I mean if I was going to red team an attack against the RCAF it would not cost much and have a pretty high probability of success just using stuff I could find at a Canadian Tire and Home Depot.

I’d simply make a homemade BM-21 with incendiary and fragmentation payloads. That is without the assumption I had some external support, if a hostile nation was supporting an attack series - you could have some SUAS to breach the roof of the hangars and drop a bunch of AT grenades on the airframes from a slightly larger UAS.

I can understand not opting for HAS on temporary fields - but I’m surprised that CL and BAG aren’t getting them.

One doesn’t need significant infrastructure to build them - unless you’re planning on living and maintaining out of them too.

 

[KevinB]

My fear isn’t a UCAV coming from an SSGN parked on the east coast.

My fear is a bunch (I won’t say “swarm” so as to not conflate UAS being able to team - I’m just talking about a bunch of stuff) of small UAS carrying a small payload of whatever launched from 10m from the base fence.

Or what could have happened to JBLE last December:

Mysterious Drones Swarmed Langley AFB For Weeks

The unidentified drones were such an issue that assets were called in from around the government, including a NASA WB-57 high-altitude jet.

www.twz.com

Yup that’s my number 1 expected threat — second is a bunch of armed folks who will just drive in and shoot up the place.

 

[SupersonicMax]

One doesn’t need significant infrastructure to build them - unless you’re planning on living and maintaining out of them too.

We will be maintaining out of them and living in some of them.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I can understand not opting for HAS on temporary fields - but I’m surprised that CL and BAG aren’t getting them.

Have you looked at Anchorage by any chance? Or Langley? Or Beaufort? Or Miramar? Or Tyndall?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Have you looked at Anchorage by any chance? Or Langley? Or Beaufort? Or Miramar? Or Tyndall?

He is not letting his own country off the hook- trust me.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Because of many factors:

1- The design of a HAS is a lot more complex than a hangarette
2- We don’t have enough space to put them. We’d need to open a new area on the base which would require new/much expanded services (sewer, water, power, etc).
3- The construction of a HAS is a lot more involved than the construction of a metal shelter

We can’t build as we go. We need the shelters as aircraft arrive as we cannot leave them outside and we need s place to maintain them.

RAAF Williamtown doesn’t have HAS. Also, Australia doesn’t have the US in their backyard (and a NORAD-like agreement) .

I could also make sure my house is tornado-proof. There is a possibility that a tornado would hit my house (there was actually a small one nearby a couple of weeks ago). But I don’t think the risk warrants the extra investment.

Check out Darwin…

And Townsville…

And look again, more closely at Williamtown….

 

[SupersonicMax]

Check out Darwin…

And Townsville…

And look again, more closely at Williamtown….

In Willy, I am pretty sure you’re looking at munition storage area. And I strongly suspect the ones in Darwin, Tindal and Townsville aren’t hardened but tinned-roof, with no doors. I believe they are loading areas.

 

[lenaitch]

That's it. All Army members should now be in full battle kit at all times regardless of duties or posting because, you know, just in case.

With the vast majority of CAF bases currently unsecured, an actual gate might be a reasonable first step.

 

[Good2Golf]

That's it. All Army members should now be in full battle kit at all times regardless of duties or posting because, you know, just in case.

With the vast majority of CAF bases currently unsecured, an actual gate might be a reasonable first step.

So baddies launching FPV one-way drones into future F-35 vs using those drones to attack local Militia troops with crappy Boulet boots… I wonder which one the insurgents would target…

 

[SeaKingTacco]

In Willy, I am pretty sure you’re looking at munition storage area. And I strongly suspect the ones in Darwin, Tindal and Townsville aren’t hardened but tinned-roof, with no doors. I believe they are loading areas.

Willly looks like it has an arming area with berms and certainly one concrete roofed aircraft hangarette.

Darwin has hangerettes with full berms. What the roofs are made of, I can’t tell.

Back to the point: build the hangerettes to get the F-35s delivered.

Have a plan to start building armoured aircraft parking areas.