The Great Gun Control Debate

[Loachman]

I have/have had many friends who were or are police officers. I have flown as a pilot on two police helicopter trials. I have participated in many joint military/police ops and training activities. I used to shoot a lot on a police range, and police often shoot on ours. I, too, am a police supporter.

I do not trust "The Police" one bit, however, thanks to this legislation, the actions of the vast majority of police chiefs and police associations in supporting it, and the actions of many police officers who have wantonly abused many honest citizens who own firearms - and kids with capguns and water pistols.

Any contact with a previously-unknown or not-very-well-known police officer, even in professional and social settings, proceeds from a position of regrettable caution and mistrust.

I wish that that was not so. It should not be.

 

[ballz]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/13/judge-rejects-outrageous-unconstitutional-mandatory-gun-sentence/

Kind of a big deal... Kudos to the judge.

 

[ballz]

Gun registry bill up for final vote by MPs

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/15/pol-gun-registry.html?cmp=rss

The bill to end the long-gun registry will be voted on by MPs for the final time Wednesday, and with the Conservative majority in the House of Commons, Bill C-19 will then be sent to the Senate for a final seal of approval.

The controversial bill will be debated for the last time later in the afternoon after question period, and then MPs will vote on whether to scrap the registry at 5:45 p.m. ET.

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews is holding a morning news conference in Ottawa to mark the occasion. He will be joined by Conservative MPs Maxime Bernier and Candice Hoeppner, who tried in previous Parliaments to abolish the registry with a private member's bill.

They will be asking MPs to support the bill at Wednesday evening's vote. The same trio of MPs held a news conference in October at a farm near Ottawa after C-19 was introduced.

Opposition MPs and critics were surprised to learn when the bill was introduced that it not only puts an end to the requirement to register non-restricted and non-prohibited firearms, but it provides for the destruction of the records currently held in the database.

The government argues that the registry is a waste of money and ineffective at improving public safety, while proponents say it is a valuable tool for police and should be maintained.

Okay, someone clarify the bold before I get too excited? Do you think it's a firearms-illiterate writer trying to say that the restricted class of firearms will no longer need to be registered as well? Or am I dreaming?

 

[Jimmy_D]

Its ok I am dreaming with you. Some dreams do come true, but one can only hope.

 

[ballz]

Yes, dreaming.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/259440/c-19-act-to-amend-criminal-code-and-firearms-act.pdf

First funkin sentence of the report

"Summary

This enactment amends the Criminal Code and the Firearms Act to remove the requirement to register firearms that are neither prohibited nor restricted..."

Pretty clear and concise, how is that even possible to screw up? :

 

[Jimmy_D]

Tory bill to kill gun registry passes House of Commons vote



OTTAWA — The Harper government’s controversial bill to end the long-gun registry has passed the House of Commons, marking the end of a long political battle over one of the most controversial law enforcement measures in recent memory.

The bill passed easily, by a margin of 159 to 130, as the Conservatives used their majority in the House secure passage of the bill, which now goes to the Senate where the Conservatives also have a majority. The Senate hearings are expected to take several weeks before the bill is passed into law.


More at Link:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/15/long-gun-registry-abolished/

 

[vonGarvin]

The word "contraversial" wasn't used enough in that...


;D

 

[larry Strong]

And 2 NDP members sided with the Conservatives.....I would love to be a fly on the wall when they are taken to task..........

 

[RangerRay]

I'm not celebrating until it's given Royal Assent.

 

[GAP]

Well..........you could have a massive die-off in the Senate.........that would stymie it.

 

[Loachman]

I'm not celebrating until the entire Lieberal Firearms Act has been repealed, idiotic "restricted" and "prohibited" categories have been nullified, the earlier PC ban on normal-capacity magazines has been lifted, and a formal apology has been made to all firearms owners for being stigmatized by previous governments.

The most offensive aspects of the legislation still remain.

 

[Jimmy_D]

Well Senate is a PC majority as well.

I'm not celebrating until the entire Lieberal Firearms Act has been repealed, idiotic "restricted" and "prohibited" categories have been nullified, the earlier PC ban on normal-capacity magazines has been lifted, and a formal apology has been made to all firearms owners for being stigmatized by previous governments.

The most offensive aspects of the legislation still remain.

This would be quite nice as well, but no one other than the CF or those working with the CF need a full auto setting.

 

[RangerRay]

The most offensive aspects of the legislation still remain.

True, especially the draconian search and seizure provisions, and invasive licensing procedures.

 

[The Bread Guy]

In case you're interested, here's the debate:
http://bit.ly/wGh3Ye
with the final vote (and who voted which way) attached.

 

[Robert0288]

Well Senate is a PC majority as well.

This would be quite nice as well, but no one other than the CF or those working with the CF need a full auto setting.

If I'm already certified to own and fire a firearm why can't I have a happy switch as well?  All it means is people will need to spend more money on ammo.

 

[Jimmy_D]

If I'm already certified to own and fire a firearm why can't I have a happy switch as well?  All it means is people will need to spend more money on ammo.

I can agree, I would love to have a full automatic rifle, just for shits and giggles; but without proper training a lot of people can become overwhelmed with the "happy switch" and higher chances of wrong doing will be the probable outcome.

 

[Loachman]

Well Senate is a PC majority as well.

No, it's not. There is a Conservative majority. "Progressive" is not part of the Conservative Party's name.

This would be quite nice as well, but no one other than the CF or those working with the CF need a full auto setting.

Nobody needs a car capable of exceeding the highest speed limits in Canada by a factor of over two, a motorboat, golf clubs, backyard swimming pool, sixty-inch television, or anything else beyond oxygen, water, warmth, basic shelter, and simple food either.

"Need" has nothing to do with the acquisition of property in a free society.

The only justification necessary is "because I want it".

There is absolutely no reason why law-abiding citizens should be prevented from owning any firearm that they wish.

There are approximately 4400 automatic or selective-fire firearms in private hands in Canada. They are actually restricted, rather than prohibited/grandfathered (so there are some fully-functional restricted FN C2s in private hands, yet all semi-automatic C1s or foreign equivalents are prohibited). None have ever been used in a crime.

 

[ballz]

"The Senate hearings are expected to take several weeks before the bill is passed into law. Once that happens, RCMP officials will begin deleting information in a massive database that provides details to police on what types of firearms registered gun owners possess."

Expect in the next "several weeks" for the RCMP, or whatever idiot bureaucrat that has the power, to start making almost every rifle/shotgun out there a restricted weapon.

EDIT to add:

And 2 NDP members sided with the Conservatives.....I would love to be a fly on the wall when they are taken to task..........

Agreed. They deserve a pat on the back though. I find it funny that in 2010 the NDP under Jack Layton would not whip the vote (well... behind closed doors they probably did) even though there was actually a possibility it would pass, but this time it was whipped even though it was pretty much guaranteed to pass.

I guess the NDP knows who their daddy is.

 

[Jimmy_D]

With that, again I agree. Also I understand the want with automatic weapons. I am not saying keep restricted/prohibited laws. I am saying that there should be steps that have to be taking (IE: training) to own/use those firearms just as the CF does with each weapon class. I have my PAL both restricted and non-restricted, and I would love for them to remove the classification of restricted/prohibited, but there should be a generic long gun course, generic hand gun course, and generic automatic course in order to obtain such weapons.

 

[ballz]

but there should be a generic long gun course, generic hand gun course, and generic automatic course in order to obtain such weapons.

But the safety aspects are identical? Look at the C7, the drills don't change just because it's on automatic?

Also, the PAL-Restricted course is literally the exact same as the PAL with one extra chapter added in, and you do the handling test with pistol instead of a rifle. You still "PROVE" it safe and all that jazz.