The Great Gun Control Debate

[ModlrMike]

The Ottawa police publish crime maps online. I just looked at the data for the past few weeks. The criminals may have cars but, in Ottawa anyway, most crimes (I excluded motor vehicle theft and hit & runs) ARE committed in poorer neighbourhoods. It is, in fact, a bit shocking to see how dense crimes are in some poor neighbourhoods and how scarce in richer ones.

Not just Ottawa. This map shows the murders in Winnipeg for this year. Very much concentrated in the more poor downtown core:

http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/features/homicides/

 

[Jarnhamar]

This made my day.

I like how the surviving burglar is being charged for first degree murder since he planned the robbery that got his partner shot.


http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20120105/mom-kills-intruder-after-911-says-do-what-you-have-to-do-120105.html

A teenage mother in Oklahoma who asked a 911 operator for permission to shoot an intruder, before killing him with a 12-gauge shotgun blast, will not be charged.

Sarah McKinley, 18, clutched her toddler with one hand and a shotgun in the other as she hid in her mobile home on New Year's Eve.

Her husband had died from lung cancer on Christmas Day. Police say two men targeted her home because they believed she would have her husband's prescription medication.

When McKinley heard someone trying to break into her home, she called 911 and asked: "Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?"

In an audio tape released to media, the dispatcher can be heard responding: "Well, you have to do whatever you can to protect yourself. I can't tell you that you can do that, but you have to do what you have to do to protect your baby."

She opened fire and killed 24-year-old Justin Martin, who was armed with a knife.

In an interview with The Oklahoman newspaper, McKinley said she saw a flash of metal in Martin's hand and thought it might have been a pistol.

"Obviously when somebody breaks into your house with a deadly weapon, they're not here for anything good," she said.

Another man, 29-year-old Dustin Stewart, was allegedly with Martin at the time and ran away when he heard the gunshots. He has been charged with first-degree murder -- police allege he helped plan the robbery, ultimately making him responsible for Martin's death.

In Oklahoma, residents are legally allowed to use deadly force against intruders.

"Our initial review of the case doesn't indicate she violated the law in any way," Assistant District Attorney James Walters told The Oklahoman newspaper.

 

[Maxadia]

I've heard stories that the "Wild West" wasn't all that wild in most places....cause you'd never be stupid enough to mess with people when even a 7 year old could shoot you in the left eye from 60 paces....and twice more before you hit the ground.  (yes, exaggeration, no need to get into the physics of why that would be impossible ;D)

Good for her.  Too bad for her that she had to do things that way, but glad she had the courage to do the right thing.

Oh....and don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

 

[Hurricane]

Good Stuff, one less piece of trash for the taxpayers to be burdened with in the prison system.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The federal government is cracking down on a small game rifle, saying it was inappropriately classified as a non-restricted weapon.

But one firearms activist argues it's an end run by federal bureaucrats related to a long-running court battle.

Owners of the Armi Jager AP80 .22-calibre rifle received a letter from the RCMP in December saying the registration certificates for the firearm would be revoked and they had a month to dispose of their weapons - with no compensation.

As of Dec. 20, the once legally owned gun would be classified as prohibited.

According to the letter, the decision was made because the AP80 is cosmetically similar to the AK-47 rifle.

But Solomon Friedman, a lawyer with an expertise in firearms law, maintained Wednesday that despite the gun's outward appearance, it is no different from any other .22-calibre sporting firearm.

"You can't shoot anything bigger than a squirrel or a rabbit with this," he said. "That's it."

Friedman argued the decision was a last-ditch attempt related to a court fight between the government and an AP80 owner who in 2000 tried to register the rifle he'd bought legally in 1984, only to be turned down on the grounds it was now considered a prohibited weapon ....

QMI/Sun Media, 5 Jan 12

 

[Jackson10]

Good for her, and great job by the DA in not pursuing charges.

 

[OldSolduer]

QMI/Sun Media, 5 Jan 12

The sooner this registry goes the better.

BUT I can do without the propaganda from the government on what a great thing it is to get rid of it.

 

[Loachman]

Eliminating the registry will change very little. The mere act of possessing firearms will still be a crime unless one purchases a piece of plastic from the government that gives one permission to commit that crime. Assaults on the constitutionally-protected rights and freedoms of firearms owners (freedom from unreasonable search-and-seizure, presumption of innocence, self-incrimination and more) will still continue.

The whole firearms legislation needs to be repealed and rewritten, and not by the gunowner-haters that wrote the current crap.

And the whole legal industry needs to be told/forced to stop harassing honest citizens who stand up for themselves in the face of violent threats and to stop scapegoating them for their way of life.

 

[Stoker]

Eliminating the registry will change very little. The mere act of possessing firearms will still be a crime unless one purchases a piece of plastic from the government that gives one permission to commit that crime. Assaults on the constitutionally-protected rights and freedoms of firearms owners (freedom from unreasonable search-and-seizure, presumption of innocence, self-incrimination and more) will still continue.

The whole firearms legislation needs to be repealed and rewritten, and not by the gunowner-haters that wrote the current crap.

And the whole legal industry needs to be told/forced to stop harassing honest citizens who stand up for themselves in the face of violent threats and to stop scapegoating them for their way of life.

Its a good first step, hopefully there will be others.

 

[Loachman]

I have no faith in that, based upon actions by and words from this government to date. Their recent juvenile, patronizing, imbecilic ad campaign is a good indicator of that.

Unless politicians and public continue to be educated and pushed for more, nothing more is likely.

The registry aspect of the Firearms Programme is the only part of the legislation that has received any publicity, as nobody understands the rest of it. It is that rest which is far, far worse.

 

[GAP]

RCMP to seize more ‘scary-looking’ guns before registry dies
Postmedia News  Jan 6, 2012
Article Link

By Jeff Davis

With the firearms registry on death’s door, the RCMP is using what little time remains to reclassify and seize certain scary-looking guns from the hands of Canadian firearms owners.

Among the guns being seized is a small-calibre varmint rifle called the Armi Jager AP80. Like many non-restricted rifles, it is semi-automatic and fires the .22-calibre bullet, the smallest and weakest used in any long gun.

The AP80 has been singled out because it looks too much like the infamous AK-47 assault rifle, although it shares no parts or technical similarities with that infamous battle rifle.

On Dec. 20, the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program — the office charged with administering gun control regulations in Canada — served hundreds of registered firearms owners with a “notice of revocation.”

“This notice is to inform you that the firearm registration certificates indicated below have been revoked,” says the letter, obtained by Postmedia News. “You have 30 days to deliver your firearms to a peace officer, firearms officer . . . or to otherwise lawfully dispose of them.”

The letter says the AP80 was “incorrectly registered” in the past, and is being banned because it is now considered a member of the AK-47 family.

“The above mention firearm is prohibited as a variant of the design of the firearm commonly known as the AK-47 rifle,” the letter says.

Until Dec. 20, the AP80 was classified as a non-restricted firearm, the most lightly controlled category of firearms in Canada. It has now been moved to the most tightly controlled category: the prohibited firearms list.

As a result, the AP80 can now be owned or used only by people possessing rare “grandfathered” prohibited licences.

The RCMP have also issued a notice of revocation for the Walther G22 rifle on Dec. 30. This gun, also a .22-calibre semi-automatic, was prohibited because it has a removable “bullpup” style shoulder stock.

The Walther G22 vaguely resembles the Beretta Storm carbine, used in the Dawson College shootings.

The letters say nothing about compensating gun owners for the seizures.
More on link

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Re-produced under the usual caveats of the CopyRight Act an article from the Ottawa Citizen on the recent hijinks coming from the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program:

More guns to be seized before registry ends

RCMP reclassifying some weapons, serving registered owners with notices

By Jeff Davis, Ottawa Citizen January 7, 2012

With the firearms registry on death's door, the RCMP are using what little time remains to reclassify and seize certain scary-looking guns from Canadian firearms owners.

Among the guns being seized is a small-calibre varmint rifle called the Armi Jager AP80. Like many non-restricted rifles, it is semi-automatic and fires the .22-calibre bullet, the smallest and weakest used in any long gun.

The AP80 has been singled out because it looks too much like the infamous AK-47 assault rifle, although it shares no parts or technical similarities with that infamous battle rifle.

On Dec. 20, the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program - the office charged with administering gun-control regulations in Canada - served hundreds of registered firearms owners with a "notice of revocation."

"This notice is to inform you that the firearm registration certificates indicated below have been revoked," says the letter, obtained by Postmedia News. "You have 30 days to deliver your firearms to a peace officer, firearms officer ... or to otherwise lawfully dispose of them."

The letter says the AP80 was "incorrectly registered" in the past, and is being banned because it is now considered a member of the AK-47 family.

The RCMP also issued a notice of revocation for the Walther G22 rifle on Dec. 30. This gun, also a .22-calibre semiautomatic, was prohibited because it has a removable "bullpup" style shoulder stock.

The Walther G22 vaguely resembles the Beretta Storm carbine, used in the Dawson College shootings.

The letters say nothing about compensating gun owners for the seizures.

Michael Patton, a spokesman for Public Security Minister Vic Toews, said these recent changes do not foreshadow a broader reclassification effort.

"As classification of firearms is a manual process, from time to time there are errors that need to be corrected," he wrote in an email. "However, let me be clear: there is no plan to broadly reclassify firearms."

Ottawa firearms lawyer Solomon Friedman says the consequences could be severe for any owners who don't comply with the confiscation notice. "If you don't surrender this without compensation, the RCMP can come to your home, seize it and charge you with possession of a prohibited firearm," he said.

Friedman says some owners of the AP80 are considering challenging the seizure order in court.

Under current firearms law, bureaucrats at the Canadian Firearms Program can reclassify any firearm through orders-in-council. Such reclassifications are done without parliamentary input or oversight.

Friedman said this confiscation effort contradicts the spirit of Bill C-19, the Harper government's legislation that will relax gun control, which is currently before the House. He noted the RCMP served its letters of confiscation while MPs were away on holidays.

Moving these firearms into higher classification brackets means their owners will still have to register them even after the Harper government's firearms law passes.

By changing classifications now, the RCMP will retain records of these owners even after the long-gun-registry data is destroyed.

jdavis@postmedia.com Twitter.com/JeffDavisOttawa

 

[PuckChaser]

As far as I'm concerned, if the RCMP screwed up in classifying the weapons, they should now be grandfathered owners and no new ones be allowed to be registered. They are hurting lawful gun owners who legally registered weapons because the RCMP was too lazy or incompetent to do their job properly in the first place.

 

[Stoker]

As far as I'm concerned, if the RCMP screwed up in classifying the weapons, they should now be grandfathered owners and no new ones be allowed to be registered. They are hurting lawful gun owners who legally registered weapons because the RCMP was too lazy or incompetent to do their job properly in the first place.

Your right, I think they could easily grandfather these people. This is not the first time they confiscated firearms without compensation, SPAS shotgun, Barrett .50 comes to mind.

 

[Loachman]

Firstly, there should be no "prohibited" category in the first place. An argument could similarly be made for the "restricted" category, but, regardless, semi-automatic rifles do not belong in it.

Secondly, these rifles have been wrongfully categorized based solely upon their appearance. Functionally, they are no different from any other .22 calibre rifle. This is even more nonsensical than the rest of the legislation.

 

[Stoker]

Firstly, there should be no "prohibited" category in the first place. An argument could similarly be made for the "restricted" category, but, regardless, semi-automatic rifles do not belong in it.

Secondly, these rifles have been wrongfully categorized based solely upon their appearance. Functionally, they are no different from any other .22 calibre rifle. This is even more nonsensical than the rest of the legislation.

I certainly agree with you on that. I have several safes full of prohibs that I am not trusted to take out of the house.

 

[ballz]

Two comments on the article that I like and agree with.

"If the AP-80 is a variant of an AK-47, then a Civic with a ground effects kit is a variant of a Lamborghini Murcielago.

These bureaucrats are acting like idiots."

and

"Freedom is the most fragile social experiment in human history."


I'm wondering when the Remington R-15 is going to get moved to restricted... I guess I shouldn't say that too loudly.

 

[Stoker]

Two comments on the article that I like and agree with.

"If the AP-80 is a variant of an AK-47, then a Civic with a ground effects kit is a variant of a Lamborghini Murcielago.

These bureaucrats are acting like idiots."

and

"Freedom is the most fragile social experiment in human history."


I'm wondering when the Remington R-15 is going to get moved to restricted... I guess I shouldn't say that too loudly.

Hopefully when the registry finally goes away, we'll start on prohibs and such. I'd love to be able to shoot my C1 ;D

 

[ballz]

With any luck this whole thing about making more weapons restricted in order to keep the registry will backfire and restricted weapons will no longer have to be registered, and it will take a hell of a lot more checks and balances to put something on the prohibited list than some bureaucrat being bored.

Dare to dream.

 

[a_majoor]

The origin of some gun control legislation seems to be the desire to disarm the public so they are helpless before the armed might of the State. Even more corrupt is the idea of disarming the public to make them more vulnerable to your political enforcers:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_strange_birth_of_ny_gun_laws_QJmHRpczvWipydklC80HYM#ixzz1jd8tiXWP

The strange birth of NY’s gun laws
By MICHAEL A. WALSH

Last Updated: 11:43 PM, January 15, 2012

Posted: 11:15 PM, January 15, 2012

Recent months have seen a former Marine from Indiana, a Tea Party activist from California and a nurse from Tennessee all arrested and charged in New York City for possession of firearms they had legal permits to carry back home. All were “nabbed” when they naively sought to check the weapon with security.

These innocents fell afoul of the nation’s toughest gun laws. But few New Yorkers know how those laws came to be.

The father of New York gun control was Democratic city pol “Big Tim “Sullivan — a state senator and Tammany Hall crook, a criminal overseer of the gangs of New York.

In 1911 — in the wake of a notorious Gramercy Park blueblood murder-suicide — Sullivan sponsored the Sullivan Act, which mandated police-issued licenses for handguns and made it a felony to carry an unlicensed concealed weapon.

This was the heyday of the pre-Prohibition gangs, roving bands of violent toughs who terrorized ethnic neighborhoods and often fought pitched battles with police. In 1903, the Battle of Rivington Street pitted a Jewish gang, the Eastmans, against the Italian Five Pointers. When the cops showed up, the two underworld armies joined forces and blasted away, resulting in three deaths and scores of injuries. The public was clamoring for action against the gangs.

Problem was the gangs worked for Tammany. The Democratic machine used them as shtarkers (sluggers), enforcing discipline at the polls and intimidating the opposition. Gang leaders like Monk Eastman were even employed as informal “sheriffs,” keeping their turf under Tammany control.

The Tammany Tiger needed to rein in the gangs without completely crippling them. Enter Big Tim with the perfect solution: Ostensibly disarm the gangs — and ordinary citizens, too — while still keeping them on the streets.

In fact, he gave the game away during the debate on the bill, which flew through Albany: “I want to make it so the young thugs in my district will get three years for carrying dangerous weapons instead of getting a sentence in the electric chair a year from now.”

Sullivan knew the gangs would flout the law, but appearances were more important than results. Young toughs took to sewing the pockets of their coats shut, so that cops couldn’t plant firearms on them, and many gangsters stashed their weapons inside their girlfriend's “bird cages” — wire-mesh fashion contraptions around which women would wind their hair.

Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, were disarmed, which solved another problem: Gangsters had been bitterly complaining to Tammany that their victims sometimes shot back at them.

So gang violence didn’t drop under the Sullivan Act — and really took off after the passage of Prohibition in 1920. Spectacular gangland rubouts — like the 1932 machine-gunning of “Mad Dog” Coll in a drugstore phone booth on 23rd Street — became the norm.

Congressional hearings in the 1950s, followed by the Fed's prolonged assault on the Mafia succeeded in tamping down traditional gangland violence, but guns are still easily available to criminals.

Today, the spate of tourist arrests has some politicians scrambling to reassess the laws. Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver says he'll hold committee hearings to examine enforcement of the law and recommend possible changes.

That's a good first step. Every state but Illinois has some form of concealed-carry permission — although some, like New York, California and New Jersey, are heavily restricted. Some sort of reciprocity is needed.

Meanwhile, savor the irony of an edict written by a corrupt politician to save his bad guys from the electric chair’s now being used against law-abiding citizens from other states.

And the rest of the story? Big Tim was already suffering from tertiary syphilis when he wrote his law. He went mad soon thereafter and was sent to a sanitarium in 1912. He eventually escaped. His severed body was found on railroad tracks in The Bronx in August 1913.

The dedicated lifelong “public servant” left behind an estate valued at more than $2 million.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_strange_birth_of_ny_gun_laws_QJmHRpczvWipydklC80HYM#ixzz1jg4nEJ77