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The Great Gun Control Debate

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As much as I'd like to see guns registered it's morons like this that make me gringe.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/06/12/19870031.html

Ban bullets and guns in Toronto, councillor says
By Don Peat QMI Agency
   
TORONTO — In the wake of the Eaton Centre shooting, councillor Adam Vaughan wants to ban guns and even bullets in the City of Toronto.

“I hope to sweep guns and ammunition right out of this town,” Vaughan said Tuesday. “I don’t like bullets flying in Toronto. I think they are dangerous.
More on link.



Gee, no shit?  I'm sure more people died in car accidents last year in Toronto than with guns...............let's "sweep" cars out of town with stupid political statements too.......
 
Everytime you feel a tremor in downtown Toronto, its not the subways underfoot, or a streetcar rolling by, in Collin Vaughn violently shaking in his coffin, cause he is trying to get out and slap his son Adam upside the head
 
Today, the Honourable Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety, tabled in Parliament proposed Firearms Information Regulations (Non-Restricted Firearms) so that businesses would not be required as a condition of a licence to collect and keep point-of-sale data with respect to long guns.  The Ending the Long-Gun Registry Act repeals the requirement for law-abiding duck hunters and farmers to register non-restricted firearms and these proposed regulations will ensure that a long gun registry is not created through the back-door and the will of Parliament is respected.

“Our Government has successfully passed legislation to scrap the wasteful and ineffective long-gun registry once and for all,” said Minister Toews. “The regulations we are proposing under the Firearms Act will ensure that a long-gun registry will not be created through the back door and the will of Parliament is respected.”

“Our Government stands up for law-abiding Canadian duck hunters and farmers, which is why we put an end to the wasteful and ineffective gun registry once and for all,” said Candice Hoeppner, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety. “These proposed regulations will no longer require businesses to collect and keep this point-of-sale data for non-restricted firearms.”

While businesses would continue to be able to keep normal business records, they would no longer be required to keep the information that identifies the buyer of a non-restricted firearm. This will eliminate the potential for the re-creation of the federal long-gun registry.
Public Safety Canada Info-machine, 13 Jun 12
 
Minister Toews's statement in the House of Commons on the "stores can't be made to keep long arm buyer records"
Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), I have the pleasure to table, in both official languages, the proposed firearms information regulations regarding non-restricted firearms in accordance with section 118 of the Firearms Act.

    I am proposing these regulations to ensure that there will not be a long gun registry by the back door and that Parliament will be respected, as well as to ensure that the leader of the NDP will not be able to use data collected by CFOs to attack the rights of law-abiding hunters, farmers and sport shooters through recreating the long gun registry, as he has promised to do should he ever get the chance.
 
Backdoor gun registries not dead yet
By Kris Sims, Parliamentary Bureau
Article Link

OTTAWA -- A loophole that would essentially let provinces create a backdoor long-gun registry just won't go away, and gun owners want the government to fire a kill shot a the zombie databases.

"Law abiding gun owners are worried that the data in these paper records will eventually be used to confiscate their firearms," Canadian Shooting Sports Association spokesman Tony Bernardo said.

"Also, as the years go on, that data becomes more inaccurate, so we could have a very inaccurate computer database set up at some point.

"The software exists right now to take the data from those records and convert them to a digital database, and if it belongs to them, the CFOs (chief firearms offices), and the province, then this is clearly going to be a problem."

The federal long-gun registry was initially created by the Liberal government in 1995 and it was loathed in much of rural Canada.

It was abolished by the Conservative government this year, but provinces continued to maintain records on lawful gun owners who were buying rifles and shot guns using "point of sale ledgers" keeping the names, addresses, and types of guns being bought.

Ontario's chief firearms officer told all gun shop sellers they had to keep writing down the information on their customers if they wanted to stay in business in the province, creating what gun rights groups called a backdoor gun registry.

On Wednesday, Public Safety Minster Vic Toews tabled a regulation that attempts to close the loophole, ordering CFOs to stop forcing businesses to keep the data.
More on link
 
GAP said:
Backdoor gun registries not dead yet
By Kris Sims, Parliamentary Bureau
Article Link

OTTAWA -- A loophole that would essentially let provinces create a backdoor long-gun registry just won't go away, and gun owners want the government to fire a kill shot a the zombie databases.

"Law abiding gun owners are worried that the data in these paper records will eventually be used to confiscate their firearms," Canadian Shooting Sports Association spokesman Tony Bernardo said.

"Also, as the years go on, that data becomes more inaccurate, so we could have a very inaccurate computer database set up at some point.

"The software exists right now to take the data from those records and convert them to a digital database, and if it belongs to them, the CFOs (chief firearms offices), and the province, then this is clearly going to be a problem."

The federal long-gun registry was initially created by the Liberal government in 1995 and it was loathed in much of rural Canada.

It was abolished by the Conservative government this year, but provinces continued to maintain records on lawful gun owners who were buying rifles and shot guns using "point of sale ledgers" keeping the names, addresses, and types of guns being bought.

Ontario's chief firearms officer told all gun shop sellers they had to keep writing down the information on their customers if they wanted to stay in business in the province, creating what gun rights groups called a backdoor gun registry.

On Wednesday, Public Safety Minster Vic Toews tabled a regulation that attempts to close the loophole, ordering CFOs to stop forcing businesses to keep the data.
More on link


The reason a gun registry or several, provincial registries are still possible, even probable, is that fear of guns is deeply ingrained in urban society - and those in fear believe that registering farmer Brown's hunting rifle will, de facto, prevent urban thug Black from possessing the illegal handgun he will use to shoot innocent (and not so innocent) bystanders in a downtown shopping centre.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
The reason a gun registry or several, provincial registries are still possible, even probable, is that fear of guns is deeply ingrained in urban society - and those in fear believe that registering farmer Brown's hunting rifle will, de facto, prevent urban thug Black from possessing the illegal handgun he will use to shoot innocent (and not so innocent) bystanders in a downtown shopping centre.

Which has been brought on by years of conditioning by the left wing nanny state do gooders like McGunity or Toronto's Adam Vaughan, who thinks banning ammo sales in TO will stop the violence.

It seems like everytime something happens in Toronto that causes harm to someone there, the rest of us are saddled with some inane law that goes after the object, but absolves the human aspect.

Bit by a pitbull? Ban the dog, don't charge the owner. Shot by a thug with an illegal gun? Ban handguns, ranges and ammo sales, but please, don't go after the gangbanging, repeat offender thug that's out on bail from the Crown and breaking his terms of parole. The list of these misdirected feelgood, but useless laws is endless.

Welcome to Bantario.

The urbanites of this country, in places like Toronto, have become lazy sods who want the nanny state to take care of and coddle them. They believe that electing a putz, like Adam Vaughan, to do the dirty work for them absolves them of the duty to think for and protect themselves.
 
recceguy said:
.... It seems like everytime something happens in Toronto that causes harm to someone there, the rest of us are saddled with some inane law that goes after the object, but absolves the human aspect ....
It doesn't help when a huge chunk of votes,  not to mention almost all of the national media, are based in that general part of the world, either - on a provincial level, let's not forget the spring bear hunt and who twisted arms on that one.
 
milnews.ca said:
It doesn't help when a huge chunk of votes,  not to mention almost all of the national media, are based in that general part of the world, either - on a provincial level, let's not forget the spring bear hunt and who twisted arms on that one.

We've all been around to know that every party has it's boneheaded moves, some worse than others.

Difference being most learn something from their mistakes.

Others, not so much.

Of course, now that bears are being seen in the outlying burbs of TO, it's only a matter of time before Mrs Mercedes loses her purse dog to one and it will be open season for spring bear again, likely to the near point of extinction if the Toronto liberals deal with it.

Or they'll just ban bears from Toronto.

Then there'll be screams to "Keep and arm bears" ;)
 
According to Public Safety Canada, the new rules kicked in as of yesterday
Today, the Honourable Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety, and Candice Hoeppner, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety announced that the Firearms Information Regulations (Non-Restricted Firearms) have come into force.

“Our government made a commitment to Canadians to end the long-gun registry once and for all and that is what we did with the Ending the Long-gun Registry Act (Bill C-19)” said Minister Toews. “These regulations will ensure that the will of Parliament is upheld and that a long-gun registry is not re-created through the back door.”

“Our government is continuing to stand up for law-abiding farmers, hunters, and sports shooters,” said Candice Hoeppner, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety.

Under the Firearms Information Regulations (Non-Restricted Firearms), businesses are not required as a condition of licence to collect or retain information regarding the transfer of a non-restricted firearm.

While businesses may choose to keep point-of-sale records for their own purposes, such as inventory or warranty, they cannot be required as a condition of their business licence to keep records that link the long-gun to a specific owner ....
 
GAP said:
Backdoor gun registries not dead yet ....
They are now (in Ontario and Nova Scotia, anyway) - this from QMI/Sun Media....
Ontario has slammed shut its back door gun registry.

Reversing the province's previous position, Ontario's chief firearms officer (CFO) announced Wednesday a letter will be sent to gun stores this week, telling merchants they will no longer be compelled to keep personal information on buyers.

Nova Scotia is also ending the controversial practice.

The CFO also said existing long-gun registry data - including the paper ledgers - will be destroyed.

Both provinces had earlier ordered gun shops to continue keeping the data despite the federal government axing its long-gun registry in the spring.

The move angered licensed gun owners who said the practice was just the long-gun registry by another name.

Last week, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, frustrated by the continued collection of data, changed a regulation in the firearms act, which directly ordered all provincial firearms officers to stop forcing gun shops to write down the names, addresses and telephone numbers of buyers, as well as the types of rifles and shotguns being purchased.

"My understanding of the law is that the federal government passed this with the intention that all of this information be destroyed. We are going by the law," said Chris Wyatt, chief firearms officer for Ontario.

"We are going to do two phases. We will collect the long gun information and have it destroyed as soon as possible, and then we will ask the merchants to separate the papers that are mixed with restricted weapons and hand guns, and then have the long gun portions blacked out and destroyed."

On Tuesday, the justice ministry in Nova Scotia announced it will also send out letters to all gun sellers, telling them they are no longer required to keep buyers' information.

"We have now received direction from the federal program, the RCMP, indicating that businesses are no longer required to collect and maintain that data for our use," said Roger Merrick, the province's director of public safety investigations.

Merrick said the province told its gun sellers to keep the information prior to this because they hadn't been specifically directed to stop.

"The businesses can still keep the information for their own purposes - say if someone writes them a cheque. But it will no longer be collected by the government." ....
 
Toronto city council votes to join battle to keep federal gun registry
Natalie Alcoba  Jul 13, 2012
Article Link

Toronto city council has instructed its legal staff to seek leave for intervenor status in a court battle over the defunct federal long gun registry.

The Barbra Schlifer Clinic, a legal clinic that helps female victims of violence, is seeking an injunction to keep the registry running and preserve the data while it fights the government’s decision to kill it in court.

With nearly one-third of members absent, city council voted 20 to 13 to support the clinic’s case for an injunction by providing “the City of Toronto perspective on the importance of why the federal and provincial government’s long-gun registry data should not be destroyed as it supports the health, safety and protection of the citizens of Toronto and in particular, it supports the long-standing Toronto campaign to end violence against women.”

The mayor opposed the decision.

Deputy Mayor Doug Holyday said the decision is contrary to advice given by the city solicitor, and will be costly. Councillor Doug Ford said the solicitor had advised councillors it would cost up to $500,000 to go to court over the matter. Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam said the estimate given by lawyers confidentially was not about seeking intervenor status.
end
 
GAP said:
Toronto city council votes to join battle to keep federal gun registry
Natalie Alcoba  Jul 13, 2012
Article Link

Toronto city council has instructed its legal staff to seek leave for intervenor status in a court battle over the defunct federal long gun registry.

The Barbra Schlifer Clinic, a legal clinic that helps female victims of violence, is seeking an injunction to keep the registry running and preserve the data while it fights the government’s decision to kill it in court.

With nearly one-third of members absent, city council voted 20 to 13 to support the clinic’s case for an injunction by providing “the City of Toronto perspective on the importance of why the federal and provincial government’s long-gun registry data should not be destroyed as it supports the health, safety and protection of the citizens of Toronto and in particular, it supports the long-standing Toronto campaign to end violence against women.”

The mayor opposed the decision.

Deputy Mayor Doug Holyday said the decision is contrary to advice given by the city solicitor, and will be costly. Councillor Doug Ford said the solicitor had advised councillors it would cost up to $500,000 to go to court over the matter. Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam said the estimate given by lawyers confidentially was not about seeking intervenor status.
end

Assclowns
 
What a waste of time and money. Next time a bank robber/drive by/club shooting takes place with a hunting rifle, someone let me know....
 
This opinion piece is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3530

Cutting Through the Propaganda

by Michael Z. Williamson
daggers@iquest.net

November 22, 2002

STATEMENT: There is no such thing as a "right wing" RKBA activist.

Let's start at the beginning. The terms "Right Wing" and "Left Wing" come from pre-Revolutionary France. In Parliament, the nobility, shipping merchants and other people of privilege would sit on the "right wing," whilst their opponents who supported the peasant and working classes sat on the "left wing." It isn't hard to see that an armed populace of peasants wasn't high on the list of priorities for the wealthy and powerful Right Wing. In fact, even without a Right to Keep and Bear Arms, most of them wound up under the guillotine. They wouldn't have knowingly done anything to hasten that event.

Let's look at the present day. Current shills against legitimate firearms ownership include Sarah Brady, paying herself a hefty salary and demanding $50K per speaking engagement; millionaire actor Michael Douglas; billionaire business owner Andrew McKelvey; millionaire film director Spike Lee (who has publicly stated a desire to see Charlton Heston "shot with a .44 Bulldog"); the Baldwin clan of actors; billionaire Rockefellers in political fields; millionaire Kennedys; billionaire Ted Turner; the oppressive, soulless, First and Second Amendment crushing ABC, owned by Disney Corporation...

Not one of these can pretend to be "Left Wing" and "support the common person." They are, in fact, goose-stepping Fascists, who are, in the immortal words of the late Douglas Adams, "A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." They know it. And that's why they fear our guns.

Against them we have the NRA, spending every penny it has and begging for more, and with Charlton Heston serving for a pittance because he believes it's the right thing to do. Then we have GOA, KeepAndBearArms.com, the Liberty Belles, Geeks With Guns, the Pink Pistols, the Coven of Firearm Owners, the Sarah Brady parody sites, the Armed Females of America, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership...

All these are run from people's basements, using whatever money they can scrape together after groceries. Paid professional writers like L. Neil Smith and myself, who can demand 20 cents a word plus royalties and residual rights for our work, are writing liberty-oriented articles for free. This is a $300 article I'm donating here, folks, assuming I could get anyone to buy it, and assuming KeepAndBearArms.com could afford to pay me. I have no problem donating my time. But I have to ask:

Where's our billionaire backer?

Yet we're "Right Wing." Or so we're told.

Legitimate speakers for the Left, in fact, overwhelmingly support an armed citizenry. Even noted pacifists like Mohandas Ghandi and the Dalai Lama have stated so. Leon Trotsky, socialist writer George Orwell and others made it clear they expected the workers to be armed. The very Left-leaning nation of Switzerland, with high taxes, national health care and transportation, with people compassionate to a fault, demands a militia against intrusion, and has very permissive laws against private firearms, to the point of having private ownership of crew-served weapons and artillery.

Over the years I've attended literary conventions, I've become aware of a huge number of Leftist, Socialist and even flat-out Communist writers, and every single one that I know is a frothing proponent of "arming the Workers," in their parlance. Ask any one of them, and they'll tell you that the Leninist seizure of arms was one of the blackest failures of the USSR. An avowed Trotskyite can hardly be called "Right Wing" with any seriousness.

As to those of us the press likes to call "Right Wing Gun Fanatics," how many of us, in fact, support a stronger government, greater control of the individual and an elite upper class, as the definition calls for?

Right Wing? Conservative, maybe, but Right Wing? In what fantasyland are these writers living? If we were truly "Right Wing," we'd be marching to disarm blacks, gays, Catholics, Unionists, Hispanics, Immigrants and anyone with a "questionable" background. Sort of like Hitler did. And the City of New York. And California. And Australia (which also prohibits certain religious activity and publication of "obscene" literature, thus proving itself to be not an enlightened western democracy).

What has been clouded over the years is that "Right" and "Left" are not entirely political definitions, they are as much social criteria. Likewise, "Conservative" and "Liberal" have been hijacked as epithets, tossed around with little meaning.

One of the defining moments of this for me was arguing with two Canadian college women. The first, claiming to be "Left," brazenly defended as fair the situation that wealthy business tycoons and politicians have armed bodyguards against the "legitimate threats" they face, while denying the threat of crime to poor people and minorities exists. In fact, I was a "Racist" for suggesting that blacks needed weapons. Clearly, my intent was for them to slaughter each other, which they would of course do, even though white gun owners don't, because it's the nature of the Black Experience in America. It is acceptable to her that small businesses face the risk of robbery, or of nightly, predictable bank deposits being hijacked, while the huge Sears conglomerate can handily afford armored car, courier and security services. No, nothing the slightest bit wrong with small businesses having that additional burden. Yet she was "Left Wing, Socialist, Enlightened and Compassionate," and I was "a Right Wing Gun Nut. Yet you sound so 'normal' for one of 'them.'" In short, she was an elitist, racist, Right Wing pig of the first order.

The second merely insisted that "laws are good because they tell us what to do," that gun owners increased the risk of rebellion (which was the only correct statement I heard from her) and "99.9% of the people in the world won't do the right thing unless you force them to" (emphasis hers). Clearly, she felt morally right in applying that force, provided her victims were disarmed.

I have news for you lady: over your dead and perforated Right Wing body.

As a Libertarian, I could be considered "conservative" as far as economic philosophy is concerned. I want a smaller government, and I want it out of my gun closet, book rack and bedroom. While there are Conservatives who differ from my beliefs on gender issues, religious issues and gay issues, that could hardly be considered an objective criteria for differentiating us. It's a strictly subjective moral issue. Certainly these issues are interpretive, but let us not be falsely categorized nor divided from each other. The issue before us is RKBA, and I'll take any allies I can get in the fight. We can argue over the rest later. If we lose that key right, we're peasants, serfs, The Workers, scum to be ordered about when, eventually, someone comes along who sees us in that light. And we are certainly not "Right Wing."

All the aspersions cast at RKBA activists by our opponents are (snicker) poor attempts to vilify us and create disorder. Think about it again: "These Right Wing Fanatics want you to be able to DO SOMETHING (have a gun) that you really shouldn't do For Your Own Good."

So, how to use this information as ammunition in the fight? Be preemptive. As soon as you encounter an anti RKBA speaker, immediately make it clear that they support an elitist philosophy of police stateism and personal privilege. That they are Right Wing for creating a double standard by which well-connected rich whites are protected by guns, and the poor and minorities are not. You will leave them with their jaws wide open, unable to speak, and thoroughly on the defensive.

All together now: "I'm a Left Wing Gun Nut, and I'm Proud!"

© 2002, Michael Z. Williamson, all rights reserved. See Mr. Williamson's archives at http://www.KeepAndBearArms.com/Williamson, and his own site at www.michaelzwilliamson.com. The author's first three novels are now pending publication, with others to follow shortly.

It's been a long time since I've read something, on the gun issue, that makes so much sense and shows the opposition in such a clear light.


 
recceguy said:
It's been a long time since I've read something, on the gun issue, that makes so much sense and shows the opposition in such a clear light.

The same old parading of political terminology in loose fashion.  Of course, the "opposition" says the same thing about the pro-gun lobby and liberally sprinkles its polemics with terms akin to "Fascist" and fighting for the future....
 
It's dated considering the referance to Charles Heston as the President of the NRA. I think it does a good job of pointing changing definations of terms.
 
Gun phobia triggers disinvitation to Ontario Summer Games
July 23rd, 2012
Article Link

TILLSONBURG, ON - An 18-year-old athlete has been turfed from the Ontario Summer Games ambassador program because his sport of choice involves a gun.

Chris Baldwin said he was "very, very frustrated and very offended" after he received a letter from the program that said that due to "untimely shootings" in Toronto, "we have received a directive that we can no longer have the sporting rifle athlete ambassadors present on stage at the World Record Camp Games event. This is unfortunately something that has been handed down to us out of our control and we deeply apologize."

Baldwin and 17-year-old Sabrina Sergeant of Norwich were both part of the program.

Baldwin, said feels he and Sergeant are being drawn into an unfair parallel between a legitimate sport and criminal gang-related activity.

"There is absolutely no connection between them," he said. "They just did it to the entire sport, so every legal, law-abiding firearms owner in Canada just got lowered to that level."

Baldwin, who has been shooting for 11 years, could one day represent Canada at the Olympics.

"I want to, that is my goal," he confirmed.

Baldwin is the national junior and overall prone and three-position sporting champion for three years running. The Western University nursing student will be going to Australia in January to that county's Youth Olympic Festival to compete in the air rifle and match rifle prone and three position championships. He has four air rifle golds and a bronze (his first competitive experience) at the Ontario Winter Games and he took first place at a Youth Olympic Games qualifying match in Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2009, successfully advancing from this meet to the continental final in Guatemala, where he finished seventh competing against the top young shooters from North and South America.

Baldwin is looking to extend his streak at Ontario Summer Games in Toronto next month.

As athlete ambassadors, Baldwin and Sergeant were to give two-to-three-minute speeches. He had chosen to talk about the importance of the summer games as both a competitive and encouraging outlet for aspiring young target shooters.

"This is where they get started," Baldwin said, adding he has been buoyed toward broader goals by participation in an event featuring over 1,000 young athletes. "It's so crucial."
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