The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[MilEME09]

Correct me if I am wrong but does the RCAF still use shotguns to scare off birds near airfields? Do civilian airports do it as well? If so how does this affect them?

 

[Cloud Cover]

So here's the thing, the OIC gave the notation that 'other arms may be added' (words to that effect).

The problem is, they're adding guns that were previously determined by their own experts to not be variants of the AR-15, and are apparently now prohibiting them because they are a variant now. 

Some of the examples include a bolt action shotgun, as well as some of the Alberta Tactical rifles - the Modern Sporter, and Modern Hunter.  The Macabee Defence SLR is also on the list now.

I am wondering if there's a force afoot in the background which is unhappy with the way this has come and is doing this to give ammunition to the 'pro gun' side by deliberately over-reaching.

On the other hand, I see a list that's being deliberately expanded by a government that seems to be doubling down and doing their damndest to destroy the shooting industry.

I'm dismayed.

Probably better to attribute not to malice but ....

 

[GAP]

Correct me if I am wrong but does the RCAF still use shotguns to scare off birds near airfields?

Hmmm....so that would be them assaulting the birds with an assault shotgun.....no?    ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

So here's the thing, the OIC gave the notation that 'other arms may be added' (words to that effect).

The problem is, they're adding guns that were previously determined by their own experts to not be variants of the AR-15, and are apparently now prohibiting them because they are a variant now. 

Some of the examples include a bolt action shotgun, as well as some of the Alberta Tactical rifles - the Modern Sporter, and Modern Hunter.  The Macabee Defence SLR is also on the list now.

I am wondering if there's a force afoot in the background which is unhappy with the way this has come and is doing this to give ammunition to the 'pro gun' side by deliberately over-reaching.

On the other hand, I see a list that's being deliberately expanded by a government that seems to be doubling down and doing their damndest to destroy the shooting industry.

I'm dismayed.

Government is out of control.

They're taking their marching orders from the ladies at  PolySeSouvient.

Guns that were "missed" in the first wave (were seeing that now with the over night frt updates)
Central storage with talk of a hand gun ban
No judicial review or any form of protest to the laws.
No grandfathering.
And the most fucked up thing, away to ban guns forever with no way to change the law in the future. Someone should tell them laws that you can't change aren't democratic.

 

[lenaitch]

Banning judicial review?  Banning protest?  Binding future parliaments?  My Gawd.  What are they teaching people these days?

I've admittedly not been following the issue that closely - most of what I've learned has been from this forum - but the government's actions seem to be a royal screw-up; more incompetent than purposeful but I could be wrong.  Many bridges-too-far.  The general media coverage has been very minimal.  In more normal times and with a competent opposition, I think things would be much different.

 

[Jarnhamar]

OIC was the beginning. The bans are on going.

CSSA

For Immediate Release –
May 15, 2020

Oshawa, ON – Public Safety Minister Bill Blair lied when he told Canadians his gun ban via Order in Council would not prohibit shotguns.

The RCMP’s Firearms Reference Table (FRT) now lists dozens of makes and models of bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic shotguns as Prohibited firearms through Part 87 of the Minister’s OIC gun ban.

87. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the M16, AR-10 and AR-15 rifles and the M4 carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them…

A partial list of shotguns reclassified as Prohibited firearms by the RCMP's Canadian Firearms Program in the past 24 hours include:

Adler B210 Bolt-Action Shotgun[ii]
AlphaArms 15SA Semi-Automatic Shotgun[iii]
Axor MF-1 Semi-Automatic Shotgun[iv]
Canuck Havoc Pump-Action Shotgun[v]
Derya Arms VR90 Semi-Automatic Shotgun[vi]
Eternal FX12 Semi-Automatic Shotgun[vii]
(many more guns being added as this is written including the Canadian made Maccabee Defence rifles)

It is crystal clear that Minister Bill Blair lied to Canadians about banning shotguns.

He either lied on May 1st, 2020, during Justin Trudeau’s virtue-signalling press conference:[viii]

“I want to assure hunters and farmers and target shooters in this country that nothing that we are doing today or will do in the future is intended to interfere with this lawful, responsible and legal activity.”

Or Bill Blair lied on May 5th, on Facebook:[ix]

“Earlier today, the Canadian Shooting Sports Association issued a statement alleging that our government is banning 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. This is absolutely incorrect and we will be reaching out to them to correct their misunderstanding.”

Or he lied on Twitter that same day:[x]

“Earlier today, the @CSSA_CILA issued a statement alleging that our government is banning 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. This is absolutely incorrect and we will be reaching out to them to correct their misunderstanding.”

Or Bill Blair lied to Parliament on May 6th when he said:

“I'll repeat one more time, 10-gauge and 12-gauge shotguns are not prohibited under this order in council.”[xi]

And

“We have been very clear. This does not cover 10-gauge and 12-gauge shotguns. The police will understand that. They know how to do their jobs. I trust them.”[xii]

Or Bill Blair lied to Parliament on May 7th when he said:

“We're not banning any toys and we're not banning shotguns.”

Or Bill Blair lied to Parliament on May 14th when he said:

“…the Canadian firearms program has made it explicitly clear that 10 and 12-gauge shotguns are not included in this prohibition. All people who were concerned about that need not be concerned.”

And

“Perhaps the member did not hear when I explained that the prohibition did not include these weapons [shotguns] in any way and the clarification actually has been provided by the Canadian firearms program utilizing the widely accepted standards and it explicitly states those weapons are not prohibited.”

Any way you cut it, Bill Blair lied to Canadians.

Repeatedly, both inside and outside of Parliament.

We expect politicians to play fast and loose with the truth during press conferences.

We expect politicians to play fast and loose with the truth on social media.

The one thing we do not expect and will not tolerate is government Ministers lying to the Canadian people in the House of Commons.

Minister Blair, you’ve lied enough.

Resign.

Salvage the only shred of dignity and honour still available to you – while you still can.

Resign immediately.

PS: As of the writing, they are currently adding rifles and more shotguns to the lists. More to come so stay tuned.

 

[MilEME09]

He certainly has egg on his face now, resign? I doubt he will, even if he does I bet he will be given a nice appointment after the dust clears.

 

[AbdullahD]

With out of touch sensationalist such as this guy, who in my opinion and only my opinion and no one elses.. he is blathering non-sensical gibberish.

I think the bans will continue. If they keep banning firearms I legally obtained and enjoy shooting, I will leave Canada if it does not get overturned. But for now they are ban happy.

Abdullah

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173


Staff edit to reflect site/political posting policies

 

[Haggis]

His "out" will be the provision in the OIC that other firearms may be added. Further study has concluded that needed to happen.  People on gun blogs and social media have to stop giving him ideas of what escaped the ban and would, therefore, make a nice addition to the list.

 

[Haggis]

With out of touch sensationalist such as this guy, who in my opinion and only my opinion and no one elses.. he is blathering non-sensical gibberish.

I think the bans will continue. If they keep banning firearms I legally obtained and enjoy shooting, I will leave Canada if it does not get overturned. But for now they are ban happy.

Abdullah

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-gun-control-handguns-1.5532173

The military, outside of some specific occupations and specialties, is p!ss poor at training people how to properly use a pistol. His credibility is undermined significantly by assertion that general military training is sufficient while also stating that "Military medics know well that when you draw a pistol in a panic, the first round sometimes goes through your foot. Or an innocent bystander."  This is a classic rookie mistake which is corrected by training.

I have trained hundreds and hundreds of CAF members and law enforcement officers on how to use a pistol. I shoot competitively and am a club level safety instructor outside of work. I have NEVER seen this happen.  Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have also failed some pretty scary people, the types you would expect to have this happen, but didn't. 

Nope, he has no credibility with me. But the PM and Minister Blair will take him at his word.

Staff edit to reflect site/political posting policies in quote

 

[AbdullahD]

The military, outside of some specific occupations and specialties, is p!ss poor at training people how to properly use a pistol. His credibility is undermined significantly by assertion that general military training is sufficient while also stating that "Military medics know well that when you draw a pistol in a panic, the first round sometimes goes through your foot. Or an innocent bystander."  This is a classic rookie mistake which is corrected by training.

I have trained hundreds and hundreds of CAF members and law enforcement officers on how to use a pistol. I shoot competitively and am a club level safety instructor outside of work. I have NEVER seen this happen.  Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have also failed some pretty scary people, the types you would expect to have this happen, but didn't. 

Nope, he has no credibility with me. But the PM and Minister Blair will take him at his word.

Yep, which pisses me off to no end. People with no knowledge, understanding or experience and creating laws, policies and programs.. that the rest of us are forced to follow.

What happened to educated, experienced, experts helping form laws and policies.

This indicates a downfall in society to me.
Abdullah

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'm still trying to decipher the list of what's being banned and what's not. I'll try and shore up a list.

online FRT list https://www.armalytics.ca/?size=n_5_n

 

[Good2Golf]

Yet nothing for mental health...because, you know, Marc Levine was a happy, well adjusted person and had no pre-identifiable I’ll will towards anyone, women or men alike.

 

[Good2Golf]

Yet nothing for mental health...because, you know, Marc Lepine was a happy, well adjusted person and had no pre-identifiable I’ll will towards anyone, women or men alike.

:not-again:

 

[ModlrMike]

I know it's generally bad form to quote yourself, but if you want to understand the LPC end state on gun control:

If you think this is about guns, you're not paying attention:

"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda"
"Canada will be one of the first unarmed countries in the world."

- Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal Foreign Affairs Minister 1998

 

[mariomike]

I will leave Canada if it does not get overturned.

Wherever you go, avoid Singapore. 
https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/AOA1973

 

[Jarnhamar]

Andrew from Rebel Media asks Toronto 'Whats an assault rifle?'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyerGiQ2OSo

 

[Cloud Cover]

“ No, I don’t know anything about it .... umm, ahhh ... I still think that all guns should be banned whether they are rifles or ...””

That right there is the sentiment that hast be defeated at the ballot box, so good luck with that because we are outnumbered.

 

[MilEME09]

“ No, I don’t know anything about it .... umm, ahhh ... I still think that all guns should be banned whether they are rifles or ...””

That right there is the sentiment that hast be defeated at the ballot box, so good luck with that because we are outnumbered.

The only way to defeat it, in my opinion is to find common ground and convince people that you have a real plan that is better then just banning. Target organized crime, more tools for CBSA to try and stop smuggling of firearms. Most gun crime is committed with hand guns from the data I have read, if you can convince toronto you can get hand guns off the streets, you'll have their vote.

 

[AbdullahD]

Wherever you go, avoid Singapore. 
https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/AOA1973

As I may have stated here, I am in the process of purchasing investment houses in the USA mostly in OH and AL. Have friends in both states and I can very easily get work in both states as well, I find this ban extremely undemocratic and setting an extremely dangerous precedent. I have the money, the capability and werewithal to move. I plan on starting sailing fall 24 or spring 25 (due to the keel issue I am having more likely spring 25).

All I would change is my primary home becomes another investment and when I am done sailing, I will apply for a position with CN rail in the USA.

I am not spouting hot air here, I am deadly serious.
Abdullah