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The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

My personal opinion (which combined with 1.46 will get you a large double double) is that the CDS was being brutally frank, as is his custom. He did not specifically say the Liberals done us wrong. Coderre, who is a former Chretien Cabinet Minister, decided to take it as a political attack. I heard him on the World at Six tonight on CBC saying "I am offended." Hey...the truth always hurts and if the shoe fits wear it man! ::)
 
As much as I respect our present CDS for his "soldiers" approach to putting backbone back into the CF. He should not forget , " never bite the hand that feed you". I have to admit I was taken back by his public statement of " decade of darkness", even though I totally agree with the statement.

A 'loose cannon" is not needed, no matter what ship( political party) it is on.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/16/coderre-hillier.html

This makes me incredibly angry. The Liberals spend 10 years destroying the military, and when Hiller points it out, they bash him for being a conservative?

Read the part where the MP says 'he's offended'. He's offended because Hillier gave a good description of whats happened to the CF. Who the hell does he think he is to be offended? How about all of us and how the government has hurt us for so long? The ignorance of these people just amazes me. I used to be moderately supporting the Liberals, but when they pull this stuff (especially this incident and the 'soldiers in our cities' attack ad), I just want to snap.
 
I’m pretty old fashioned, which goes with just being pretty old, so I have some pretty old fashioned ideas.  One of them, which I have previously shared with Army.ca readers, is that military officers ought to be quiet unless speaking about the conduct of operations or the business of leading and managing the forces in being.  Policy is the proper domain of elected politicians and a small cadre of senior civil servants.

That being said, these are not the ‘good old days’ and my ideas may well be out of date.

All over the Western World politicians and bureaucrats are failing in their duties and passing the burdens to military officers.  Defence Chiefs are, routinely, called to parliamentary committees to comment on and even justify decisions which are, properly and constitutionally none of their business.  This happens because ministers (former US Defence Secretary Rumsfeld being the exception who proved the rule) are either ignorant of the nuts, guts and feathers of their portfolios or afraid to say anything lest they same something wrong or, worse, stupid – most likely a combination of ignorance, irresponsibility and cowardice on the part of ministers.

Admirals and generals have been co-opted into the political sphere.  The CDS, being appointed by the PM, has always had a foot in both camps but I observe – not just in Canada – that more and more senior officers are in the public eye more and more often.  That, being in the public eye, was ”not done” just a few years ago – well 10 or 15 is a few for me.

So, is Hillier being political?  Yes.  Is that wrong?  No, but he may pay a price for it.  Adm John Anderson did, back in ’93 when Jean Chrétien summarily fired him for saying, in public, that the CF (Navy) needed new helicopters to replace the aging (waaaaay back then!) Sea Kings.  Is he a "loose cannon"?  No.  I'm sure, as I said earlier, that his remarks were considered - as were the potential consequences, good and bad.  He may be a cannon but, if so, he's carefully aimed.
 
Particularly ironic - Hillier was appointed to his job under the liberals.
I'm not making this up!

If the management of any other arm of the government said anything similar
they'd get zero noise over it.

With Kyoto accord, the liberals sign and do nothing for years,
then it's Harpers' problem that the job can't be done.

What seems most dismall of all, I think they actually believe their own spin.

You could say I'm so angry I'm blue - like the little card in my wallet. ;D
 
Ah yes, Cold war is over, lets forget about the military, we don't need them anymore. The soviet empire is bankrupt we don't have enemies anymore, isn't life great!

9/11 comes along.

Phone rings...

George Bush. "Hey John, we res your army?

Chretien "Geese George the cold war is over, didn't you get the memo?

Bush. Geese John , haven't you heard of Osama Bin Laden?

Chretien. "Whats that George a new restaurant?

Bush. No John its the b@#$%$# who just blew up 2 of my buildings in New York City!!

Chretien. A George, no need to worry we can help. Let me talk to my defense minister and I'll get back to you. click...

Next day

Phone rings...

Chretien. " Hallo George, how are you"?

Bush. "OK John, what can your give me"?

Chretien. "Well George it seems that we have a problem". "We just disbanded the army and Paul put the money into welfare and social programs?" Sorry bud, but it looks like Osamo's all yours" Oh if you need some heavy lift helicopters, we sold ours to the Netherlands, they can probably help if your in a pinch, sorry again pal. click"

Bush. "%%$$#%%$$#@#$$^^%%$


 
Just on naming which decade was darkest......

ttp://www.bloggingtories.ca/btFrameset.php?URL=http://www.civitatensis.ca/archives/2007/02/16/1959&title=General%20Hillier%20is%20Wrong

General Hillier is Wrong

    The head of Canada’s armed forces [General Rick Hillier] was accused of playing partisan politics today after he told a meeting of defence experts that the military was coming out of the “decade of darkness” that began with the Liberal government in 1994.

I think the spirit of what the General is saying is correct but he is somewhat wrong. The Canadian military has been under attack from the federal government and in an age of darkness since the 1960s. That’s not a partisan statement because Brian Mulroney was no friend of the troops either.

Perhaps what General Hillier means to say is that the last decade was the darkest in the last four.
 
Political. He fucked up. They'll get over it. He'll move on. Every doggie has his day. End of story.
 
All I can say is: WTF is Coderre on?? Does he honestly believe what he's saying? In any case I take this as a sign that if the Liberals regain power they'll toss out the best CDS we've had in a long time for the sake of party politics.


Liberal MP slams Hillier as Conservative 'prop'
Last Updated: Friday, February 16, 2007 | 4:47 PM ET
CBC News
Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre accused Canada's top soldier of being a "prop" for the Tories after Gen. Rick Hillier described the period of budget cuts to the military that began in 1994 as the "decade of darkness."

"I'm offended today," the Quebec MP said following the speech Hillier gave Friday to a defence group in Ottawa.

"We have a chief of defence staff who spoke about 10 years of darkness. I never thought that he would become a prop to the Conservative party."

Although Hillier didn't name the Liberals specifically, he spoke of the challenges the Canadian forces still face because of budget cuts that began in 1994, when the Liberals were in power.

"Over this past one to two years, we have begun to fully realize the immense, the negative impact of the … defence expenditure reductions from 1994 and the lasting most negative legacy that they brought into effect which has to be put right."

Hillier said those cuts to resources, combined with the increase in operations conducted by the Canadian forces around the world, have led to a military that is "fragile," with some parts "on a life support system."

Liberal MP slams Hillier as Conservative 'prop'
Last Updated: Friday, February 16, 2007 | 4:47 PM ET
CBC News
Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre accused Canada's top soldier of being a "prop" for the Tories after Gen. Rick Hillier described the period of budget cuts to the military that began in 1994 as the "decade of darkness."

"I'm offended today," the Quebec MP said following the speech Hillier gave Friday to a defence group in Ottawa.

"We have a chief of defence staff who spoke about 10 years of darkness. I never thought that he would become a prop to the Conservative party."

Although Hillier didn't name the Liberals specifically, he spoke of the challenges the Canadian forces still face because of budget cuts that began in 1994, when the Liberals were in power.

"Over this past one to two years, we have begun to fully realize the immense, the negative impact of the … defence expenditure reductions from 1994 and the lasting most negative legacy that they brought into effect which has to be put right."

Hillier said those cuts to resources, combined with the increase in operations conducted by the Canadian forces around the world, have led to a military that is "fragile," with some parts "on a life support system."

 
kilekaldar said:
I take this as a sign that if the Liberals regain power they'll toss out the best CDS we've had in a long time for the sake of party politics.
Welcome to the carribbean wonderful world of Canadian politics mate. 
  The military and its head members have always been things to chew up during periods of elections/threats of an impending election.

BTW: this topic is being discussed in another thread.
 
There is not a soldier (former,present or future) in Canada who does not support the CDS. He has done more for the CF than most and I hope he gets to do even more. We all must realize that the CF has always been the first to suffer when money is short, it was going on when I joined in 67. Every word the CDS spoke are true but the timing of those words is what is in question. As a former soldier I find no fault in the CDS telling the facts as they are, we as soldiers know them to be true. Politicians by rule will not give you a straight answer. There only concern is not to piss-off the PM and stay elected long enough to draw a pension.
If the CDS is not a true blue Tory then his remarks should be received as a CDS just looking after his soldiers, nothing more. His presentation of facts is not in question, its his timing that is causing the Liberals to sweat.
I am sure the CDS will weather this and I agree with what was mentioned in a earlier post. He maybe a "loose cannon" but he plans his shots well.

The Liberals now know the meaning of " the truth hurts "

 
Vote on this online poll at the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/

Did Gen. Rick Hillier overstep by saying the Canadian Forces suffered a 'decade of darkness' under the former Liberal government.

Yes
(43%) 2061 votes

No
(57%) 2684 votes

Total votes: 4745
 
E.R. Campbell said:
So, is Hillier being political?  Yes.  Is that wrong?  No, but he may pay a price for it.  Adm John Anderson did, back in ’93 when Jean Chrétien summarily fired him for saying, in public, that the CF (Navy) needed new helicopters to replace the aging (waaaaay back then!) Sea Kings.  Is he a "loose cannon"?  No.  I'm sure, as I said earlier, that his remarks were considered - as were the potential consequences, good and bad.  He may be a cannon but, if so, he's carefully aimed.

Couple of thoughts from overnight.  The CDS also said that the military still has a number of areas "on life support", the message here to the present government being that the damage from the 90's has yet to be rectified. Second ref the partisan uninformed comments from Denis Coderre, Hillier is a Tory "prop", the Liberal opposition 2IC Michael Ignatief smiled and said something along the lines of well Denis does get carried away sometimes.
 
A bit more grist for the "how's Hillier doing?" mill already grinding away pretty well here, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

Showdown over military's direction rankles top general
Don Martin, CanWest News Service, 17 Feb 07
Article Link

A debilitating bout of double vision hit Canada's top soldier when he was handed new marching orders after last January's cabinet shuffle.

Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier looked down a long list of fresh government priorities on the revamped "mandate letter," costed out the demands in his head and told his political master it couldn't be done without a helluva lot more troops, or billions more dollars.

Hillier, you see, won't accept assignments he cannot deliver. But equally headstrong Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor won't take no for an answer. And that's why some sources insist there's a cold war raging atop Canada's military.

It's fair to say the two men don't get along personally. Big brass egos rarely do, particularly when there's history in their relationship.

Retired general O'Connor used to be Hillier's boss, but fell just short in his dream of reaching the top spot in the military's command. And there's understandable jealousy breaking out as the media-savvy Hillier attracts rock-star billing and his troops' adoration while crusty O'Connor delivers the equipment and gets written up as a belligerent blowhard.

Besides, Hillier is toying with a post-military career in politics, perhaps in his native Newfoundland and Labrador, where there's already giddy speculation swirling he'll eventually become the Rock's premier.

But Canada's at a critical point in balancing its defence obligations domestically and internationally that demands a clear and focused vision as a re-emerging military middle power. The last thing it needs is a five-star battle raging internally while a strategic plan is lacking.

So, how serious is the bad blood?

Well, sources say O'Connor has prohibited Hillier from talking to the Prime Minister's Office without his permission, something Liberals insist is a new way of doing business between supreme leaders.

By most accounts, there was a very acrimonious showdown last month when O'Connor rolled out a six-page attachment to the mandate letter that diverted soldiers to protect Arctic sovereignty and put them in position around a dozen cities as emergency responders.

It's a prohibitively costly exercise that will lay claim to thousands of already scarce troops who are needed on international fronts, particularly with the Taliban on the rise. The way some military brass see it, a domestic priority is admirable, but those soldiers just train for eventualities that may never come.

Still, O'Connor is adamant that his Canada First defence policy is critical and has infuriated the brass by demanding Hillier plan for the questionable deployment of a rapid-reaction battalion to Goose Bay, N.L., and the relocation of the Joint Task Force 2 to Trenton, Ont., which seems more to do with electioneering than legitimate military manoeuvres.

It all came to a head a few weeks ago when a top-level military meeting with Prime Minister Stephen Harper was scrubbed at the last minute because officials felt no consensus was possible.

Perhaps Hillier has cause to be confused. He keeps hearing the prime minister rattle Canada's sabre with talk of reasserting our place on a global scale, a view Hillier wholeheartedly supports, yet he keeps getting a domestic push from his minister.

To be fair, others close to the top insist the two men have patched things up. The minister's office acknowledges, in its usual not-for-attribution style, that Hillier had initially balked at the ambitious list of demands, but was pacified when he was promised the resources to deliver on both fronts.

That olive branch seemed to be on display Friday when Hillier went decidedly partisan in a speech to the Conference of Defence Associations, insisting the Conservatives have brought the military out from a "decade of darkness."

But Hillier's on-side words don't mask the looming showdown over insufficient budgets to stretch over divided priorities.

The rumbles from inside Finance are not encouraging. After the environment takes a hefty slice of the surplus, and billions more are diverted to Quebec and Ontario to resolve the fiscal imbalance, the military seems unlikely to be a windfall winner.

That sets up a showdown in a military trying to appease two politicians who could splinter the department into ineffective forces on both fronts.

Hillier sees the military as a growing international peacemaking force. O'Connor wants to put soldiers into Coast Guard and RCMP roles for national sovereignty and security.

Canada's military brass needs to see clearly into a focused and effective future. That won't happen if double vision, blinded by conflicting personalities, clouds the military's judgment.

 
Baden  Guy said:
Couple of thoughts from overnight.  The CDS also said that the military still has a number of areas "on life support", the message here to the present government being that the damage from the 90's has yet to be rectified. Second ref the partisan uninformed comments from Denis Coderre, Hillier is a Tory "prop", the Liberal opposition 2IC Michael Ignatief smiled and said something along the lines of well Denis does get carried away sometimes.
:rage:

What kills me is down here in Halifax this darned liberal leaning rag called the Chronicle Herald prints that as a headline....picture of Hillier in CADPAT and beside it "Tory prop?"
they can't even begin to present a semblance of balance in their reporting....grrrrr
 
The Liberals must be regretting their decision to appoint Hillier as CDS. They probably wish that they had appointed someone like De Chastelain. His honest assessment of the "decade of darkness" has hit a nerve. It is so refreshing to serve under such a man.

As we approach an election, the CDS has become a target for the Liberals, a foolish decision on their part as it'll only highlight their dismal record. One thing is for sure now, if the Liberals win, we'll lose the best CDS we ever had.
 
Certainly from the standpoint of the soldier he appears to be doing a great job, leading change and "gettin' things done".  How would he have fared in 1994 during the era of chop 'n' save?  His appearance as the saviour of the CF is due in overwhelmingly large part to the current political will to spend money on the military; a will that will not last forever.  He's excellent on TV though but he's way more than the one-dimensional "soldier's soldier" that he's portrayed as - you don't get to be a General without being ruthless and political, among other unpleasant but necessary things.  He is benefitting from perfect timing.
 
Well Granatstein is now going to have another chapter for his book. Watching several differnet network coverage stories on this it was illuminating as to which sound bits they used. Finally, after years and years we may have a military leader. :salute:
 
Clerkyman, it is true that timing has played a sufficient part in the CDS's popularity. In saying that I believe his personality makes up 75% of how others see him. How would he perform if he was CDS during the lean years, who can say. My opinion is that he would have numerous bootprints on his ass.
Regardless of his popularity, he is making do with what is available, the CF has been doing that forever. The unfortunate thing from all of this is the undeniable fact that the CDS is a political position. He has two groups of people to serve, his soldiers and his political masters. I fear that if the Liberals(God forbid) regain power, our CDS and the military will slowly return to the old ways.
 
I think Hillier has stated publically what all reasonably informed Canadians already know. The "peace dividend" of the early 90's really meant a wholesale gutting of Canadian Forces (and other western armies as well). I also heard Michael Ignatief on CBC radio last night backpeddling rather adroitly, saying both Codierre and Hillier are "strong personalities" which is Lieberal  double speak for change the subject fast lest it be known that it was 10 years of Lieberal neglect that has put the Forces in a position where tens of billions of dollars are needed just to get back o square one.
 
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