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The Chuck Cadman Merged Thread

...not to mention that his wife and daughter are making me sick with this, nice legacy you just left for your Father/ Husband, ......that he knew something as slimy as this but did/said nothing?

I hope you both rot.

What makes me sick, is a political party that would attempt to buy votes. I think thats against the Criminal Code.  Also what makes me ill is how people attempt to deflect blame on the man's family.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080229.wcadman0229/BNStory/National/home

And on Friday afternoon, Holland Miller, Cadman's son-in-law, told Vancouver radio station CKNW the late MP told him about the alleged Conservative life insurance offer when he returned to British Columbia after the vote.

Now we can add Holland Miller to the list of family members that are lying.
Also from the same news piece is this tidbit

But in a June 12, 2005, radio interview on CKNW, Mr. Cadman told the Globe and Mail's Dan Cook the Conservatives did, in fact, make him financial overtures.

“There was certainly some, you know, some offers made and some things along those lines about not opposing me and helping out with the finances of the campaign and that sort of thing. But, again, you know, that's all part of the deal that goes on. It's what happens, especially in a minority situation,” Mr. Cadman says.

Asked how the Conservatives could have allegedly obtained life insurance for Mr. Cadman — who died of cancer two months later — Mr. Holland speculated the party could have paid the cost of the policy.

For a political party that run and won on ethics, its time someone shows some.

 
TCBF said:
- Actually, no, you don't. The man who could have changed that - Mr Cadman - is unfortunately deceased, and well before his time, too.  Most truths get taken to the grave in one form or another.


Seems to me there were two sides to the conversation with Mr. Cadman...Mr. Cadman and representatives of the Conservative party. Mr. Cadman was no more or less capable of telling the truth than the other parties to the conversation... the question is will they do so?

And we will have to disagree on whether voters deserve to know... as far as I am concerned it matters not whether Mr. Cadman is deceased, the Canadian electorate still has a right to know whether elected officials, or their representatives, were involved in illegal activity intended to sway the vote of a member of parliament. 

We'll have to agree to disagree because I suspect there is as much that you could say that would change my mind as there is that I could say to change yours. ;D
 
sgf said:
What makes me sick, is a political party that would attempt to buy votes. I think thats against the Criminal Code.  Also what makes me ill is how people attempt to deflect blame on the man's family.

::)

Well!  You just nailed why I don't vote Lieberal. 

The NDP have never garnered my vote, as most of their candidates have never worked an honest day in a real job in their lives.  Some of the Fringe parties are too out of touch with reality to really be taken seriously, and then there is the BQ whose main aim is the distruction of Canada. 

I guess that doesn't leave much left. 
 
and this latest story confirms why I would never vote for Harper.
 
sgf said:
and this latest story confirms why I would never vote for Harper.

;D

But you voted for Chretien.  If you were in ON, you probably voted for Lying Dalton McGinty.  Oh well.  I think we are getting away from the days of Lieberal graft and patronage.  We needed the change, and perhaps we can get the country back on track, once people start to realize what that party has destroyed.
 
Liberal graft and patronage? There is no patronage in this government? You dont really believe that do you George Wallace. I have said many times that the Liberal government certainly was not perfect, and after the last few days my belief is confirmed that this government is certainly not perfect either, and that the Tories would have done anything to gain power.  At least I realize that all the political parties are basically the same. Harper ran on a having a different government, obviously thats not true.
 
stegner said:
Are we blaming a Conservative quasi-controversy on the Liberals now?    ::)

I guess you failed to see my sarcasm. ::)

So what are the daughters motivations?  She makes the same claim as the mother. 

What others have already said. :'(

If the allegations are true the alleged offer may have required the drawing up of paperwork.  It is not out of the realm of possibility that the conversation could have been taped.   Lots of very unlikely theoreticals here.
 

If you honestly believed there was tape, it would already be public. The widow and her daughter seem to have an agenda, but only they know what it is at this time.

Again, for the slow-witted ones here. Maybe the wife has been approached by other parties with offers if she helps sabotage the CPC and PM Harper. This is called an allegation as it offers no proof, the same as any statement by either wife or daughter. 


[/quote]
 
sgf said:
What makes me sick, is a political party that would attempt to buy votes.

And you still vote Liberal? Where was your outrage at Belindas cabinet position with absolutely zero experience? Or is your outrage solely aimed at the CPC and your percieved notions of wrongdoing, as opposed to Liberal party actual wrong doings. ::)
 
Belindas cabinet position with absolutely zero experience?

Belinda was an executive at a multi-billion dollar company before joining the Cabinet. 

opposed to Liberal party actual wrong doings. Roll Eyes

Alleged Liberal party wrong doing.  Where is the proof that a Liberal MP did any wrong doings? 
 
stegner said:
Belinda was an executive at a multi-billion dollar company before joining the Cabinet.  

Why was Belinda an executive of a multi-billion dollar company?

That's right, she was the token female figurehead because DADDY owned the company. She quit because she wanted to be the leader of the CPC. When that failed she jumped at the offer of a cabinet position, because she felt she was entitled to some degree of power as opposed to being a back-bencher. But she quit that position as well because she couldn't hide behind daddys coattails when her incompetence was revealed.

Nice try, but next time try to have all the pertinent info before offering an answer.
 
Heresay statements (not evidence yet as no statements have been made under oath) from third parties one way are not convincing given the principle in question made statements that were recorded and are still available the other way. Absent more evidence there is nothing here, and calling for the guilty to confess smacks of a kangaroo court because it assumes guilt. Being able to face an accuser is also a basic principle of our justice system.

The only thing that seems fairly certain is Cadman's family says he said a bribe attempt took place while Cadman himself publically said one didn't. A recording of the second still exists. The conflict between the two is obvious as somebody has to be lying or not factually correct.
 
When that failed she jumped at the offer of a cabinet position, because she felt she was entitled to some degree of power as opposed to being a back-bencher.

She left because her and Stephen Harper were not getting along. 

But she quit that position as well because she couldn't hide behind daddys coattails when her incompetence was revealed.

Any proof of that? 
 
2 Cdo said:
And you still vote Liberal? Where was your outrage at Belindas cabinet position with absolutely zero experience? Or is your outrage solely aimed at the CPC and your percieved notions of wrongdoing, as opposed to Liberal party actual wrong doings. ::)

I do still vote Liberal. Will you still vote Conservative if this bribe is proven? Will you still vote Conservative if the RCMP lay charges or the Ethics Committe find wrong doing? Sure you will.
Belinda did not have any cabinet experience, but she sure had a lot of experience in running a multi million dollar business so i would say she was very able in running any Department  Martin put her in. I have said many times here but you must have missed it; I realize that the Liberals are not perfect and did many things that I did not think were right.
BTW, nice attempt in dragging Belinda into this topic but lets attempt to remain focused on the the bribery attempt.
 
2 Cdo said:
Why was Belinda an executive of a multi-billion dollar company?

That's right, she was the token female figurehead because DADDY owned the company. She quit because she wanted to be the leader of the CPC. When that failed she jumped at the offer of a cabinet position, because she felt she was entitled to some degree of power as opposed to being a back-bencher. But she quit that position as well because she couldn't hide behind daddys coattails when her incompetence was revealed.

Nice try, but next time try to have all the pertinent info before offering an answer.

well for someone that got ahead because of her father she did pretty good. This is from Wiki

In 2001, the National Post named Stronach as the most powerful businesswoman in Canada; and, in the same year, the World Economic Forum named her a "Global Leader of Tomorrow". Fortune Magazine ranked her #2 in its list of the world's most powerful women in business in 2002. She was also named one of Canada's "Top 40 Under 40". In April 2004, Time Magazine ranked her as one of the world's 100 most influential people.

Speaking of Fathers coattails, Peter MacKay has done pretty good hasnt he. I wonder if his father had anything to do with that? Belinda announced she was leaving politics in April 07 and in Jun 07, she was diagonsed with breast cancer. That probably had something to do with her leaving politics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belinda_Stronach

 
stegner said:
Alleged Liberal party wrong doing.  Where is the proof that a Liberal MP did any wrong doings? 

And with the subject of this thread:

Alleged CPC party wrong doing.  Where is the proof that a CPC member did any wrong doings? 

Good for the goose, pot this is kettle and all that. Your righteous indignation has just come home to roost. You have no proof of what your alleging, save hearsay. That's also only whatever anyone else has. You can allege all you want, but if you have no proof of what took place, except for conjecture and hearsay from the MSM and family, don't puff up here and state your rumour as fact.
 
Where is the proof that a CPC party member did not do any wrong doing? If there never took place, I would think that the Tories would be falling all over themselves pointing this out.
 
sgf said:
Where is the proof that a CPC party member did not do any wrong doing? If there never took place, I would think that the Tories would be falling all over themselves pointing this out.

Okay, I've stayed out of this one up til I read this piece of drivel.  Prove they didn't do anything wrong?  You are aware that in our democratic society, the burden of proof lies with the accuser, aren't you?
 
sgf said:
Where is the proof that a CPC party member did not do any wrong doing? If there never took place, I would think that the Tories would be falling all over themselves pointing this out.
You've been spinning your wheels for awhile now, using the same tired argument, and you're still spinning them. The onus of proof of evidence rests with the accuser, not the defendant. If you can't provide it beyond a reasonable doubt, you have no case. Once again, the onus is on you to provide evidence of wrongdoing. Not us to provide proof nothing happened.

I suggest, if you can't provide real proof, instead of rumour and innuendo as the MSM and family is, you have no case and are just slinging feces. Perhaps you should take a breather and we can all walk away from this until something substantial is released, one way or the other.

This is getting pretty close to a temporary lock, until something REAL & SUBSTANTIAL does come out. I'm sure a non participating Mod will be along shortly.
 
sgf said:
Speaking of Fathers coattails, Peter MacKay has done pretty good hasnt he. I wonder if his father had anything to do with that?

Probably not.  Peter MacKay was a Crown Prosecutor in Pictou County long before he was elected.  He was elected to Parliament by the citizens of Pictou County.  He was not placed in Parliament or nominated to any Board of Directors by his father.

Maybe you better start comparing apples to apples instead of apples to -- oh, I dunno -- handgrenades. ::)
 
The plot thickens a bit - seems a BC radio station has dug up bits of an interview they did with Mr. C in 2005.  As much as I take MSM with a grain of salt, it appears we have the words of the man (or at least some of them) out there now - bit of a summary of the rest of the stuff to date as well.  Shared with the usual disclaimer....

New evidence emerges in case of alleged financial offer to dying MP
Canadian Press, 29 Feb 08
Article link

OTTAWA — The voice of a cancer-stricken MP who died months after a historic confidence vote came back to haunt the Conservatives on Friday after a three-year-old radio interview surfaced in which Chuck Cadman says party officials made him financial overtures.

In a June 12, 2005, interview on Vancouver radio station CKNW, Cadman said the Tories did, in fact, make him financial offers days before the crucial vote.

"There was certainly some, you know, some offers made and some things along those lines about not opposing me and helping out with the finances of the campaign and that sort of thing. But, again, you know, that's all part of the deal that goes on. It's what happens, especially in a minority situation," Cadman says.

The interview lent credence to claims from Cadman's family that the terminally ill Independent MP - on whose shoulders rested the fate of Paul Martin's Liberal government - told them Tory officials allegedly offered him a $1-million life insurance policy in exchange for his support.

Cadman's widow, Dona - a Conservative candidate - said her husband was livid at the alleged offer, which she said she considered a bribe.

Cadman's daughter, Jodi, also said her late father made a deathbed admission about the alleged $1-million life insurance policy offer and other enticements.

And on Friday afternoon, Holland Miller, Cadman's son-in-law, told CKNW the late MP told him about the alleged Conservative life insurance offer when he returned to British Columbia after the vote.

Author Tom Zytaruk taped an interview with Harper in September 2005 for his soon-to-be-released biography of Cadman. On the scratchy 2:37 recording, Harper confirms party officials made a financial appeal to Cadman.

"The offer to Chuck was that it was only to replace financial considerations he might lose due to an election," Harper says.

Harper said while he wasn't optimistic about their chances of persuading Cadman - a former Tory MP who had left the party to sit as an Independent MP - to vote with the Conservatives to bring down Martin's government, he urged two people "legitimately representing the party" to tread cautiously.

"I said 'Don't press him, I mean, you have this theory that it's, you know, financial insecurity, and you know, just, you know, if that's what you're saying make that case,' but I said, 'Don't press it'."

Not clear is what exactly the Conservative insiders offered Cadman. The Tories insist that Doug Finley and Harper mentor Tom Flanagan only offered to take Cadman back into the party fold.

Asked what financial considerations Harper was talking about on the tape, and what case did he tell the party emissaries to make, the prime minister's communications director ducked the questions.

In an e-mail to The Canadian Press, Sandra Buckler said the tape - which the publisher of the book was selling for $500 a copy - is an excerpt of a longer interview between the prime minister and Zytaruk.

"We are deeply concerned that an edited excerpt of a taped conversation between Mr. Harper and the book's author is being bootlegged for five hundred bucks a pop by the author. We call on the author to provide Canadians with a complete, unedited audio copy of the author's conversation - from start to finish - with Mr. Harper."

Buckler did not reply to a second e-mail asking her to respond to the two original questions.

(....)
 
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