The Capital Punishment Debate

[1feral1]

2 wks ago yesterday, in Singapore they hung an Aussie citizen (Vietnamese born) for having almost 500g of heroin on him. Talk about a whinging public (minority only), even some state parliments gave him a minutes silence (this caused an outrage for the majority), which personally I find offensive, thats reserved for 11 Nov, 25 Apr, and similar things not gutless foreign DRUG TRAFFICKERS, who only want to be Aussie when it suits them. Do a search for 'australian hanged singapore' for more info if you want it).

Good on Singapore for having such harsh penalties, he knew the risk, he knew the outcome and paid the piper for his sins. They say the drugs on him would have made almost 30,000 hits for users on our streets, and we all know how many lives are ruined by these drugs every year (victims of crime and murder involving robbery etc by desperate druggies trying to feed their sickly habits for example).

As for Tookie, I heard he only had a glass of milk, and no food, but as if I care, again think of the victims of his crime, they have a life sentance. Think of Tookie when you flush the toilet today.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[GO!!!]

Like I said earlier,

Make prison horrible (burlap clothes, wool blankets on a concrete floor, IMPs three meals a day) and PUBLIC. How many swaggering asian gang members would re-offend if they were chained to light posts and forced to scrub gum and spit from public sidewalks with a toothbrush?

More difficult prisoners could be sent north to clear a path through muskeg and tundra for the Mackenzie Valley pipeline, or chisel mountains for railway lines in BC. We are under-utilising a great resource here - free manpower, and the ability to shame, not just lock up these people.

I have no problem with murderers living and working in a northern gulag for the remainder of their natural lives, and medium security prisoners picking up garbage and cutting the grass in the highway medians.

Thoughts?

 

[DSB]

I like the idea of putting cons to work.  Cheap labour to benifit the masses.

 

[rifleman]

If prison is such a great place to be, there would be alot of outstanding citizens choosing gaol over working, cause it would just be so logical

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Like I said earlier,

Make prison horrible (burlap clothes, wool blankets on a concrete floor, IMPs three meals a day) and PUBLIC. How many swaggering asian gang members would re-offend if they were chained to light posts and forced to scrub gum and spit from public sidewalks with a toothbrush?

More difficult prisoners could be sent north to clear a path through muskeg and tundra for the Mackenzie Valley pipeline, or chisel mountains for railway lines in BC. We are under-utilising a great resource here - free manpower, and the ability to shame, not just lock up these people.

I have no problem with murderers living and working in a northern gulag for the remainder of their natural lives, and medium security prisoners picking up garbage and cutting the grass in the highway medians.

Thoughts?

Honestly?  Surely to God there are thousands of people who have benefited from a kinder, gentler prison system.  The press focuses on the scum and unrepentant, but is there not something to be said for rehabilitation, where possible?

 

[GO!!!]

Honestly?   Surely to God there are thousands of people who have benefited from a kinder, gentler prison system.   The press focuses on the scum and unrepentant, but is there not something to be said for rehabilitation, where possible?

Absolutely.

But I believe that rehabilitation and penance go hand in hand. Since recidivism rates are so high amongst some groups of people, a year or two of hard labour for the benefit of the crown in conjunction with rehab would be a good idea.

This way, the guilty can repay the public purse for the costs associated with their trial, room, board, incarceration, and rehabilitation. The public has already borne the cost of their crimes, we should not bear the costs of their punishment too.

 

[TCBF]

" the crystal in the palm of your hand goes red, and you are taken away by the Sandmen to go to Carosel.  Or something like that."

- Like the movie 'A Boy and His Dog': 

(forgive inaccuracies in the quotes below - my memory fails me).

Helene Winston: "Lack of respect, wrong attitude, failure to obey authority."
Jason Robards:  "Any warnings?"
H: "Three"
J: "Any reason for mercy?"
H: "Not particularly."
J: "The farm. Now, what's this one going to be?"
H: "The last one was a heart attack, lets make this one a machinery accident."
J: (to the accused) "And may God have mercy on your souls.."

Tom

 

[McD]

None of the above; the death penalty isn't a deterrent.

This is my first post so I want to be careful and not step on anyones toes here, but I think the death penalty serves more as a final justice or punishment for a crime already committed, moreover than a deterrent to a violent crime. If someone is going to, or capable of, carrying out such crimes they are going to do it unyieldingly to the law, and the repercussions. Unless they think its perfectly okay to blow someones head off?

 

[1feral1]

This is my first post so I want to be careful and not step on anyones toes here, but I think the death penalty serves more as a final justice or punishment for a crime already committed, moreover than a deterrent to a violent crime. If someone is going to, or capable of, carrying out such crimes they are going to do it unyieldingly to the law, and the repercussions. Unless they think its perfectly okay to blow someones head off?

It tells me that (IMHO):

a) when released (and they do), this person will NOT re-offfend and KILL anyone outside the wire

b) stops a needless waste of tax dollars in looking after the coward, and that adds up over the years; and

c) although many victim's families want their muderers to rot behind bars, many also find closure with the execution, and as said above 'final justice'.

Arsehole crims strung out on drugs, etc when committing an offense always seem to never think they'll get caught (or dont care), so I don't think its much of a deterrent either.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[zipperhead_cop]

There are stats galore that will point to the fact that deterence is not served by the death penalty.  The vast majority of murders are committed as crimes of passion (so you are not thinking) or drug involved (so you are not thinking).  That isn't the point.  Should the guy who comes home and finds his best friend and wife balls deep who snaps and takes a pick axe to them be executed.  Probably not.  He is a "one time loser" and will likely never do anything wrong again the rest of his life.  But you should be judged on your record and how you have conducted yourself.  If you could see the criminal records of these people, it almost always follows the same pattern:  convictions for theft and mischief, fail to comply with orders or fail to attend, resist arrest and/or assault PC, more theft but now up to B&E's, more breaches, drug possessions pled down from drug trafficking, maybe some stolen cars and pursuits, batches of theft convictions in groups of four and up, more B&E's, actual convitions for trafficking, assault with weapon, agg assault and on it goes.  And you still see the sentances no higher than two years less a day.  Jail only serves to help criminals refine their skills. 
Take the crap bag in Laval.  Does he deserve to get three squares, free gym and movies, and all the free education he wants at your expense?
Some people just do not deserve to be stealing our oxygen any longer.

 

[TCBF]

I agree with your ideas.

But, as far as this statement goes:

"There are stats galore that will point to the fact that deterence is not served by the death penalty.  The vast majority of murders are committed as crimes of passion (so you are not thinking) or drug involved (so you are not thinking). "

The stats are fudged and misquoted, and 'drug involved' is a defence lawyers SOP to try and reduce the perp's responsibility for his actions.

Your conclusion however - kill 'em all - is correct.

Tom

 

[zipperhead_cop]

My point about the stats is to not get hung up on worrying if deterence is served or not.  Who cares.  I have also spoken to a lot of people who support the return of corporal punishment (because we all know what sedicious buggers you corporals are  ;D).
If a an A$$hat gets grabbed, sure maybe he only does a week in jail, if that is what society wants.  But if he also is minus about a square foot of skin from his back or legs, that would leave a lasting impression.

 

[TCBF]

When Clinton was President, he staged a contest between three organizations.   He had a rabbit dumped in a woods and then told the CIA to find it.   The CIA got the NRO to back them and they did everything: Satellite, SR-71 overflights, co-opt the other animals in the forest and get them on the payroll as spies, and overthrew the animal government - replacing it with one they owned and could move drugs through.   But still - no rabbit.   So they paid the RAND Corporation millions of dollars to write a secret report saying that rabbits don't exist, and their legend is a communist plot.

Then the FBI was called in.   They got the BATF to back them up, and they tapped all of the animal's phones.   They targetted the ones who went to church and owned guns, then, when that harrassment did not result in any arrested rabbits, they set fire to the woods and machine-gunned all of the animals as they ran out.   They reported the rabbit as dying from self inflicted smoke inhalation caused by it setting it's own hole on fire, but they produced no rabbit body.

Then the LAPD went in.   There was much noise, screaming and yelling, and out of the woods covered in cops comes a bear.

It is a black bear.

It has been cuffed, beaten, tasered and maced, in that order.   As it is dragged from the woods, you can here it beg "Awright! Awright! I confess! I confess!   I AM A RABBIT!   ! AM A RABBIT!"

;D

Tom

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don't know why people are hung up on capital punishment being a deterent.  Who cares if it is or not?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Some people just do not deserve to be stealing our oxygen any longer.

Told you you'd like it here ;D

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Baby, I think Im home

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Controversial topic for sure and one I doubt we will ever see again but what do you think?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Works for me.

 

[Long in the tooth]

Capital punishment should remain on the books.  It would be an extraordinary sentence that would have to be approved by parliament; that is, it could not be automatically or subjectively administered as a 'technicality'.

I have no problems with the ilk of Clifford Olson being put to death.  On the other hand, Illinois issued a picture of 75 people who had been on death row and subsequently found 'not guilty' by DNA or other evidence.

 

[Infanteer]

I have no problems with the ilk of Clifford Olson being put to death.   On the other hand, Illinois issued a picture of 75 people who had been on death row and subsequently found 'not guilty' by DNA or other evidence.

Too true; for me to support it, there would need to be a hard defintion into how it can be used.  Grevious offences against society in general where the evidence is overwhelming (ie: DNA evidence, Bernardo's movies, etc, etc).