The C9A2 (pics)

[D-n-A]

This is why I THINK the furniture is OD not cadpat

having OD furniture is

cheaper
easier to do
and more adoptable to different areas


If the weapons were in TW CADPAT, and were used in Afghanistan(for example) the weapon would stick out a lot, but the OD doesnt stick as much.

Unless they planned on putting new cadpat furniture on the weapons for different deployements(TW and AR cadpat furniture), I think OD is the better option.

 

[1feral1]

WRT the F89A1. The front sight and mount are not even milled onto the top of the gas block. This mod was done when the LSW ‘lost‘ the iron sights and went optical back in about 1996.

Also dumped was the dummy buffer (which the C9 currently has), and this was replaced with an hydraulic type, with an entirely different return spring guide (not that yellow colour coded type you are all familiar with).

I would assume in the A2 upgrade, the CF too will adopt this superior design.

Another paint mod was AUSCAMing the whole wpn less the barrrel. These are currently being tired in desert AUSCAM along with the tropical issue colour which is general issue. Its an interesting process, and its epensive, but it easily chips off, as the wpn must be 100% de-greased, and the ones trialed were not.

In lay terms, the wpn is dipped into a special tank with AUSCAM on the surface with a water disolving film, and the AUSCAM sticks to the wpn and is removed, dried and spratyed with a protective finnish.

The C9A2 appears to have the OD finnsih powder coated on. This is a durable finish which we use on the 84mm Carl G when we FTR them. The eqpt is magnatised, and sprayed with a powder type paint, then placed into an pre-heated 200C giant oven for about 15 mins, then hung to cool.

Even in FTRs when the wpn has to be stripped by bead blasting, the finnish takes a while to be blown off.

The C9A2 looks great, and is definatly a vast improvement. I would imagine when issued, it will be well recieved by the troops.


Regards,

Wes

 

[AlphaCharlie]

Wes, how hard is that "OD Powder finish" to chip? I mean, with the use our weapons get, wouldn‘t paint chip off quite quickly?

 

[Armymedic]

The handgaurd and such are molded in OD, tan, and black and interchangeable to enviroment.

 

[1feral1]

The powder coating process bakes the paint on, and it stays. Yes it will chip and wear in time, but its just as durable as phosphating in my books.

Threre are 3 major weapons rebuild facilities which have the powder coating machinery in Australia. One in Sydney, one in Brisbane, and one in Lithgow.

For reasons unknown, our weapons of all types really seam to get the worst wear and tear I have ever witnessed. From new to silver and worn within 12 months sometimes!

In Australia FTR‘d (Factory Thurough Repair)M16A1s have been powder coated in black, along with the 9 x 19mm browning Hi Power too. Its also effective for lawn mowers, car parts, and yes bike frames, etc.

We also utilise powder coating on BFBs (Blank Firing Barrels) where the first 50mm of the barrel are in signal red. This can hve some ‘burn off‘ with excessive heat after prolonged firing of belts, but thats a barrel. The housing and feed cover would never get that hot on a Minimi.

Australia does NOT use dedicated live firing barrels for blank use on MGs (I.E. we have no barrels for both blank and live firing). Sure the barrels are normal ones, but fitted with a BFN (Blank Firing Nut) which is also signal red. No BFAs such as for the rifle, F88 are ever yellow, Red is the colour used here.

Also on the Minimi, a red plastic carrying handle is incorperated as is on the MAG 58 (C6) too.

BFBs are are numbered ‘3‘, and the spare live barrel ‘2‘. Example for a F89A1 would be the serial number AM961234-3 would be a BFB for the life of the gun, or barrel which ever comes first. AM961234-2, would be a spare live firer. Ones marked simply with the serial number, known here as an ARN (Army Registered Number) are the primary live firer.

We have dedicated BFBs for the F89A1, the MAG 58, and 12.7 x 99 browning M2 QCB has a factory only BFB.

More wierd Australian military facts.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[CI Dumaran]

The AN/PEQ2 now cdn issue? or is that just for proto purposes?

Thanks for the pics DNA, quite sexy indeed.

 

[Mortar guy]

Hello to everyone here at Army.ca. I am new to this board. As for the C9A2, I posted that info on the Canadian Forces forum so I can answer some of your questions on the new weapon. The two barrel lengths are just as someone stated: the long on for normal use and the short one for CQB/FIBUA roles. Each C9A2 gunner will be issued 2 long and 2 short barrels. The cloth bags are already in the system and have been issued to some of the guys in Kabul. Also, the C9A2 is equipped with the Tri-rail mount to mount the AN/PAC-4C (not the PEQ-2A) Laser Aiming Device and the Surefire flashlight. It also has a collapsible C8 style butt with a buffer which lowers the rate of fire a little. Anyway, I hope this helps.

Pro Patria

Alex

 

[gremlin]

The powder coat seems to be a little thin so i have my doubts about the durability of it. As for the buffer slowing the rate of fire, there is no buffer in the butt of the C9. The buffer is the thick yellow spring on the end return spring rod. The rate of fire is set by the gas nut located in the gas block on the front of the barrel. 
  The reason the C79 sight is used on the C9A1 and A2 is because of the light gathering properties of the sight allow an extra half hour to an hour of improved sight at dawn and dusk (also the gunner can use the reticle to judge distance and call target info to the section) as for the A2's the origanal C9 iron sight is used as well as the upgraded Zero retaining C79 sight. 
  Finally I haven't seen the long barrels issued just the short ones maybe NDHQ just bought the one type, or the others will be held centrally and issued as required for the mission.

 

[D-n-A]

AN/PAC-4C (not the PEQ-2A) Laser Aiming

Ah, your right. I got the PEQ2 info from another site, but I read somewhere else that is is the Pac4

 

[Mortar guy]

Gremlin,

There is most certainly a buffer in the butt of the C9A2 and I am pretty sure I know what a buffer is! Take a close look at the pictures, the C9A2 has a C8 butt and within that butt is a buffer and spring assembly. I know this because my friend is the project manager for the C9A2 at DLR and he told me this. Also, the long and short barrels are most definitely being issued together. I don't know where you would have seen the short barrel as they haven't finished trials yet (unless you're in the lucky unit doing the trials  . The long barrels have been in the system since the C9 entered service in the early '90s. The C9A2 will have a new long barrel that has a floding carrying handle and a new gas regulator. Other than that, it is the same as the old long barrel. Hope this helps clear things up for you.

Alex

 

[Doug VT]

Sorry Mortar Guy, If you knew the operation of the C9, you would know that even if there was a buffer inside of the C8 style collapsing butt, it would be of no use.   This buffer is made for the bolt in the C7/C8 weapons.   The C9 works entirely off a return spring which is contained completely internal to the weapon.   Unless somehow they've changed the system, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever (it would be a COMPLETE system overhaul!)   The butt is telescopic, and that's all, stop trying to complicate the issue.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Busted lol

 

[Jarnhamar]

I know this because my friend is the project manager for the C9A2 at DLR and he told me this.

Well on the bright side maybe theres going to be a position opening up at DLR for an aspiring project manager

 

[Jarnhamar]

:fifty:

 

[Spr.Earl]

Whats with our DOH HEADS !!

The weapon is a light Machine Gun,to aid a section to suppress fire while in the attack.
Or too lay fire down while redrawing.
Why the scope?

 

[Mortar guy]

Guys,

I know I am new here so I don't have much credibility so I thought I would post the info I got from the Project Manager at DLR. In this email he explained exactly what mods will be made to the C9A2. I direct your attention to paragraph 1:

Here are the C9A2 upgrades:

                5.56mm, LMG, C9A2.

                        (1)    Collapsible Buttstock (C8 type) With
Hydraulic Buffer System.  It is a hydraulic buffer system with an integral
plastic collapsible butt similar to the C8.  The buttstock will be capable
to provide intermittent stops to provide variety of lengths to accommodate
eye relief when the gunner is wearing different layers of clothing, tactical
vest, or body armour.  The hydraulic buffer system was already trialed and
it makes the weapon more controllable and accurate.  It lowers the rate of
fire from 750 to 600 RPMS, which makes the gun more stable to fire and is
better when using the C79 scope.  The butt will have the ability to fold in
causing the C9A2 with the short barrel to be used like a submachine gun.
The new butt is going to be trialed this year. 

                        (2)    LAD Mount.  A dual mount configuration for a
laser-aiming device was trialed.  These rails will be used on the forward
part of the weapon to mount various ancillary items to support individual
operations.

                        (3)    Barrel.  New short barrels have to be
procured with a collapsible carrying handle.  The short barrel will be for
specific ops such as parachuting, FIBUA, and fighting in complex terrain
versus a full-length barrel (466mm).  It is envisioned that each C9A2 gunner
will be issued two short and two long barrels and use depending on the
mission in conjunction with an integral Backup Iron Sight.

                        (4)    Back-up Iron Sight.  An integral back-up
iron sight similar to the old C9 sight will be incorporated to give the
firer the option of using the iron sight or the C79 sight.

                        (5)    Plastic Polymer Parts.  Green plastic
furniture (pistol grip, butt, carrying handle, C79 optical sight cover, and
hand guard).  This will be adopted in the future to improve camouflage and
concealment.  This will be changed to green in color in order to break up
the outline of the weapon and reduce the reflectivity of black.

                        (6)    Soft Collapsible Magazine.  Quantities of
3000 x 200 round olive drab soft ammo pouches have been bought to replace
the plastic belt boxes and are being distributed.  It is designed to be more
maneuverable and quieter that the standard 200 round plastic ammunition
case.  It can indicate number of rounds left by sensory feedback.  The
remaining 1000 pouches for the reserve infantry will be procured through
Investment Opportunities.  A 100 round olive drab ammo pouch has just been
procured for operation.  Based on feedback from the soldiers, it will be
decided it this will be procured in addition to the 200 round soft ammo
pouch 

                        (7)    Carrying Handle.  the barrel will have a
folding carrying handle vice a fixed one in conjunction with the barrel
replacement.

                        (8)    Pistol Grip.  An integral pistol grip will
be off the handguard that can fold away and not be in the way of the soft
recoil mount or the C9A2 bipod

                        (9)    Tactical Slings.  Will now be procured in
CADPAT instead of black.  This will be a slow phasing in process.


                        <<C9A2 long barrel.JPG>>  <<C9A2 short barrel.JPG>>
<<C9A2 Pistol Grip.jpg>>        <<C9A2 sights.ppt.jpg>>

I am extremely pleased where the weapon is going.  It is good to be able to
bring your experience to develop something that is good to the soldiers.

Also, I was a Small Arms instructor at the Infantry School for a year and have been in the infantry for over a decade now. Maybe this will convince you that I am not talking out of my ass! Cheers

Alex

 

[Bzzliteyr]

If the butt will have the ability to "fold in".. how can it be used as a buffer??   It would be rendered useless in the event of it being folded, wouldn't it?   What I think we have is two seperate things in the same paragraph:   1. a hydraulic buffer system installed in the housing of the weapon itself and
2. a collapsible butt that is identical to the C8 butt and will be "foldable"

Does that sound more plausible?

 

[Mortar guy]

That is a damn fine question and one I hadn't thought of. I have seen the C9A2 and the butt is designed to fold forward to one side. Perhaps the weapon cannot fire unless the butt is to the rear? I will have to ask my buddy about this one. I'll get back to you.

Alex

 

[Smoothbore]

If the optical scope is so useless why did American forces in Iraq install it on their M249 SAW's?

 

[48Highlander]

Small arms instructor my ass.  Anyone who'se ever seen the inside of the C9 would understand exactly what that e-mails was refering to.  Just for the sake of everyone elsethough,  I'll explain it:  The C9 guide rod and return spring (which are in the body of the weapon, not the butt mortar guy) is being replaced by a hydraulic rod.  Because the hydraulic rod provides more resistance than the spring, it slows the rate of fire somewhat.  The butt itself is immaterial to the operation of the weapon.  You could cut the whole thing off and just fire the weapon from the hip if you wanted to because all of the working parts are within the body of the weapon.  Just like a C6 and the .50cal.