Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged

[Leeworthy]

Require is rge word your looking for. You can travel it all in one day if you wish. Its just for safety. If you decide to travel over the 500km dnd can say you were liable for your own damages should you chose to go over and get hurt.

I knew lots of people who went over 500km or more and there are no repercussions if you do. But you are entitled to 2 days of td and probably a room for the night. Its your choice what you chose to do. Just dont try and claim it.

 

[PuckChaser]

You'll also need to check the DND driver regulations as well, I can't remember off the top of my head, but it has limits in there for duty hours and kms as one member is driving a staff car/DND vehicle.

 

[Petard]

I think you're referring to this
http://admmat.mil.ca/cosmat/lbi/DTn/DTn2/documents/ALM158005AG001_Spreadsheets/Drivers_policies_2014_E.pdf

For a duty day (hrs), it states:
unless given direction by the Commanding Officer (CO) or designated officer, no driver of any vehicle is to drive continuously for more than 4-1/2 hours without a break away from the vehicle, drive for more than 13 hours a day, or be on duty for more than 14 hours in a day. Drivers are also responsible for ensuring they have adequate sleep when off duty so that, when reporting, they are fit to drive

 

[Quiet Riot]

Thanks to all for responding

 

[CountDC]

Now the question is - which do you go by?  The CFTDI,  the Driver Policies or do they actually work in concert?

This is an ongoing issue I have had for several years and do not take lightly as I attended briefings in Ottawa in which it was mentioned that a member exceeding the 500 kms and having an accident could find themselves in a world of hurt.  Implications were that the member be found at fault, liable for injuries and damages and it may be viewed as you were not on duty which would  possibly impact benefits entitled to by injuries on duty, especially if med released.  It was explicit that the CFTDIs were black and white with no leeway.

The problem I run into is that some people view the CFTDIs as only a guideline with lots of leeway to meet the intent and not a hard rule.  I cannot begin to count the number of times I have heard "but the driver manual says they can drive 800 kms" (didn't see that in the link though I am sure it used to be in there) or 550kms meets the intent of the CFTDI for safety.  I am sure now they will push that you can drive a lot further than 500 kms in 13 hours.

1. Do you stick with the CFTDIs 500 kms (I do, not risking it when I have a family to support)
2. Driver Policy of 13 hours regardless of distance
3. How about both - 500kms or 13 hours which ever comes first (stop laughing, we actually had somone take close to that for slightly over 500kms through the mountains.) 
4. How about CFTDIs apply when on TD (thus the name) while the Drivers Policy actually applies to Drivers on the job (ie Base TPT)
5. If you have a co-driver and switch off does it change anything (you drive 500, he drives 500)?

Have yet to receive the same answer twice and although I requested it go to Ottawa for policy clarification through my chain of command I have not heard back and do not believe it was sent higher.

 

[Lumber]

Just dont try and claim it.

Incorrect.

The CAF gave be 13 days (14? can't remember) to drive to Nova Scotia from Victoria. I bee-lined it to my hometown in Ontario in 5 days (arrived on teh 5th day of travel), spend 5-6 days in Ontario, then took 2 days to drive to Nova Scotia.

Claimed it all; hotels, meals, etc.

 

[Leeworthy]

Incorrect.

The CAF gave be 13 days (14? can't remember) to drive to Nova Scotia from Victoria. I bee-lined it to my hometown in Ontario in 5 days (arrived on teh 5th day of travel), spend 5-6 days in Ontario, then took 2 days to drive to Nova Scotia.

Claimed it all; hotels, meals, etc.

Was that really the right thing to do? Morally i dont think so. It comes back down to integrity. If you didnt stay in a hotel and you didnt need those meals why claim them.

As an ex rms clk we would go through this on a daily basis.

 

[PuckChaser]

You can't claim hotels through Brookfield if you don't stay in them, and meals are based on the travel days. I was told by my advisor to stop somewhere for a few days so I wouldn't arrive early, and mess the claim up. Use it or lose it system, and with no incentive to arrive early (likely due to cftdi/safety), why not claim it within the rules?

 

[MJP]

Now the question is - which do you go by?  The CFTDI,  the Driver Policies or do they actually work in concert?

This is an ongoing issue I have had for several years and do not take lightly as I attended briefings in Ottawa in which it was mentioned that a member exceeding the 500 kms and having an accident could find themselves in a world of hurt.  Implications were that the member be found at fault, liable for injuries and damages and it may be viewed as you were not on duty which would  possibly impact benefits entitled to by injuries on duty, especially if med released. It was explicit that the CFTDIs were black and white with no leeway.

I have no answers for you OP, I just wanted to comment that the people that brief others that you could be found liable/not on duty are probably the same weanies that try and say that someone injured while wearing non issue kit wouldn't be covered.  I can imagine the outcry and hubris now if someone actually tried to enforce that kind of silliness.

 

[Occam]

I have no answers for you OP, I just wanted to comment that the people that brief others that you could be found liable/not on duty are probably the same weanies that try and say that someone injured while wearing non issue kit wouldn't be covered.  I can imagine the outcry and hubris now if someone actually tried to enforce that kind of silliness.

VAC is littered with gawd knows how many cases of members seriously injured (I know one who broke his back during an overseas port visit in the Navy) who receive zero benefits from VAC because they were deemed not to be on duty, and therefore did not arise as a result of military service.  Strange but true.  That silliness is very real.

 

[MJP]

VAC is littered with gawd knows how many cases of members seriously injured (I know one who broke his back during an overseas port visit in the Navy) who receive zero benefits from VAC because they were deemed not to be on duty, and therefore did not arise as a result of military service.  Strange but true.  That silliness is very real.

Ugh I have no words for that kind of crap.  Those are the good media fights,  likely though the people injured in many of those cases aren't the attention whores that we typically see in the media

 

[CountDC]

the weenies giving the briefs were from VAC and DCBA who had just went through everything with TB and at the time the CFTDI had just been issued. I also belief there was discussion on pension impact but can't recall at all the details for that one.  It does have some validity though as shown by recent policies on TD for reserve members that opt to take PMV on taskings/courses that are over 500km away without authority.  They are not considered on duty or covered if anything happens enroute.  By the same token we are not authorized to drive over 500km so once we do we are now on our own time vice on duty. 

For me the possibility alone is enough to restrict to 500kms.  Why risk losing everything just to safe time I am paid for anyway and will just spend working on the other end.

My concern now is for other members that are exceeding the limit because it is what the unit expects without actually ordering in writing.

 

[Lumber]

Was that really the right thing to do? Morally i dont think so. It comes back down to integrity. If you didnt stay in a hotel and you didnt need those meals why claim them.

As an ex rms clk we would go through this on a daily basis.

Uhhh you have this completely wrong. I didn't claim any hotels that I didn't stay in, and I did in fact "need" those meals. So, I don't know what you are getting at? They gave me 13 days to get to Halifax. I took 13 days to get there.

 

[CountDC]

I think the point is that you were given 13 days to get to Halifax, not 13 days to rush to Ontario, take a vacation and then continue to Halifax.    Those 13 days are based on driving 500 kms a day for safety reasons so it should have taken longer than 5 days to get there.  The moral part is - if you are being paid out of tax payers dollars to travel to Halifax is it morally right to use it for a paid vacation along the way?  Don't forget - as it is a move you are not on leave, you are on duty so if you make Halifax in 8 days instead of 13 you should report to your gaining unit on arrival and start working.  By stopping over you also gave yourself a few days of leave that you were not entitled to.

My opinion is that I will leave the debate of right and wrong to others as I could easily get bogged down in this case of how about....... is that right/wrong too?

Personally on that drive I don 't think it matters how far you go for safety - 100 500 1000 all feels the same - long and boring with crappy hotels.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Making something out of nothing.  I was told by Brookfield that I could do just that, drive like stink to one spot, hang out for a bit, then move onto my destination. (don't show up early and don't show up late)

It's not a big deal, and well within the rules..  Anyway this is about TD, not cost moves, which is what it sounds like Lumber was on.

 

[Lumber]

Making something out of nothing.  I was told by Brookfield that I could do just that, drive like stink to one spot, hang out for a bit, then move onto my destination. (don't show up early and don't show up late)

It's not a big deal, and well within the rules..  Anyway this is about TD, not cost moves, which is what it sounds like Lumber was on.

Ah, yes. I was talking about Brookfield supported cost moves, not TD. My mistake; I got carried away.

Personally on that drive I don 't think it matters how far you go for safety - 100 500 1000 all feels the same - long and boring with crappy hotels.

Crappy hotels? You do realize that you can pick any hotel off of the Federal Government's Accomodations Directory, don't you? http://rehelv-acrd.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/ACRDS/rechercher-search-eng.aspx

And, even if the hotel you want to stay at isn't on the list, you can stat at any hotel and the CAF will reimburse you for the maximum city rate limit. So if the city maximum rate is $150/night, and you want to stay at a $175 a night hotel, you can do that; they will just only reimburse you the $150, and you're out only $25. On approved cost moves I've stay at the Fairmount Lake Louise, the Delta Vancouver, Delta Victoria, Homewood Suites and Collingwood Suites in Halifax. It's hard to find a nice place in Sault-St-Marie, but you make due.

 

[CountDC]

You can stay in hotels that are on your route, available and will accommodate you, your family and your dog.  Driving from Ottawa to BC there are a lot of crappy little places that look good when you research online but what you get is totally different but are still the best in the area. 

You also have the regulation a bit wrong which is a common mistake.  Your accomodation while on TD is supposed to be pre-selected by the approving authority from the hotel directory and confirmed available.  if you then decide to stay at another hotel that cost more you should only be reimbursed the rate of the hotel pre-selected not the highest rate for the area.  In some locations this can be a fair amount especially if staying several days.

 

[Sub_Guy]

No, he's correct, because he is talking about a cost move.  Select from the list, just don't go over the max rate and you'll be fine.

 

[PMedMoe]

No, he's correct, because he is talking about a cost move.  Select from the list, just don't go over the max rate and you'll be fine.

:nod:

Going through the process myself right now.  Brookfield told me the max price for hotels in my area, but I get to pick.

 

[Lumber]

You can stay in hotels that are on your route, available and will accommodate you, your family and your dog.  Driving from Ottawa to BC there are a lot of crappy little places that look good when you research online but what you get is totally different but are still the best in the area. 

A very quick search of the directory wrt places between Ottawa and BC that you can stay at along your way:
Toronto:
Chelsea Hotel - $144
The Hyatt - $139
DoubleTree by Hilton - $145

Chicago:
Travelodge Hotel Downtown - $159
(there's much nicer ones outside the city)

Minneapolis
Ramada Plaza Minneapolis - $89
Radisson Blu Mall of America (Bloomington) - $109

Winnipeg:
Radisson Hotel Winnipeg Downtown - $135
Delta Winnipeg - $135
Place Louis Riel Suites Hotel - $135

Regina:
Executive Royal Hotel Regina - $125
Best Western Plus Eastgate Inn & Suites - $130

Calgary:
Delta Bow Valley - $199
International Hotel Suites Calgary - $199

Edmonton:
Courtyard by Marriott Edmonton Downtown - $145
The Westin Edmonton - $145

Vancouver:
Best Western Plus Sands Hotel - $159
Ramada Vancouver Downtown - $165

Enjoy your next cost-move back East.

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