Scotland Independence Movement

[a_majoor]

Its in the memories. The troubles in Northern Ireland started in the early '60's. Prior to that the last time the Irish-Brits had gone it was in 1920's; in other words in living memory. Heck, there were people who had fought in the Irish Rebellion against the British who were still alive in the '60's!

On the other hand, the last time the Scots and British duked it out was at Culloden in 1746. Ancient history.

When I was in Bosnia (Republic Serbska) we would be retailed with stories of the Battle of Kosovo Polje, told with such verve and detail that you would imagine it took place during the civil wars of the 1990's.

It took place in 1389

Quebec separatists cling to events dating from the 1500's to the 1700's as the source of their grievances, causing no end of headaches for the Rest of Canada for decades.

So "Ancient History" can come back to bite you. (OTOH I'm not sure the idea that most North Americans are "Ahistorical" and rarely consider events from longer ago than last week to be much of an improvement; there must be some sense of perspective and understanding of "how" and "why" things got to this point to effectively plan and carry out effective actions).

 

[Kirkhill]

Salmond picked 2014 as the year for his vote because it was 700 years since the last time the Scots beat the English at Bannockburn.  (A few odd minor skirmishes notwithstanding).

And most Scots will be able to tell you the Declaration of Arbroath was proclaimed in 1320.  Just like the English remember (or used to remember) 1066, 1215, 1689 and 1805.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I don't know if anyone else heard Jean Charest, former Premier of Quebec and "Captain Canada" during the 1995 referendum, speaking over the past day or two but he predicted this and more, including another referendum within 10 years. In predicting the nationalist propaganda he was, of course, speaking from experience because that is, of course, exactly what Jacques Parizeau et al said: "we were robbed, tricked, lied to, and, and, and ..."

 

[Rifleman62]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/pick-six-apalooza-your-picks-in-the-battle-for-the-senate/article/feed/2166201

WITH YOUR SECOND CUP OF COFFEE...

The Scots said “nay, laddie” to the proposed split with the United Kingdom Thursday, evoking memories of several attempts by the Francophone province of Quebec to secede from Canada and the resulting “non” votes. The closest approach for le Québécois came on June 12, 1995 when the split was defeated by a single percentage point, in what has been called “The night Canada stood still.” Canadian historians believe the critical moment came a bit earlier. “With the lead favouring the Yes side, two weeks before the vote, the Federalist swung into action and held rallies and Prime Minister [Jean Chretien] made several speeches in support of Canada. Then the single biggest event of the campaign took place on October 27th, just a few days before the vote, when about 100,000 Canadians from all across the country gather in Montreal for a massive Unity Rally which appealed to French Canadians to vote for Canada. The crowd was addressed by Prime Minister Chretien, the leaders of the Federal opposition, Jean Charest, and the leader of the Provincial opposition, Daniel Johnson.”

 

[Kirkhill]

Aye, and Salmond's created the next generation of foot-soldiers with that cadre of 16 and 17 year olds that will likely take the fight forwards.

Quebec may have "Je me souviens" but Scotland has got "The Flowers of the Forest", "Scots Wha Hae wi Wallace Bled", and "O, Flower of Scotland".  They give the melody to an ever-changing story that can be exploited to mobilize any group with a grievance.

10 years may be too short but I don't doubt the fight will flare up again.

 

[CougarKing]

Kirkhill, isn't it rather late for this?

Reuters

A majority of Scots would vote for independence now: poll
Sat Nov 1, 2014 9:28am EDT

LONDON (Reuters) - A majority of Scots would back independence if another referendum were held today, according to a poll published on Saturday, just six weeks after Scotland voted against leaving the United Kingdom.

The YouGov poll for the Times newspaper put support for independence at 52 percent against 48 percent who wanted to stay in the union. By including those who would not vote or do not know, the split was 49 percent in favor of a split and 45 percent against.

In September's referendum, 55 percent of Scots voted against independence.

The opinion poll also brought more bad news for the leader of Britain's opposition Labour party, Ed Miliband, who hopes to oust Conservative leader David Cameron as prime minister in next May's national election.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Scott]

Many of the Scots I call friends, who were going to vote in favour of independence, claimed that this would happen. I suppose that they would have a 50/50 shot at nailing that, but the fact is still that the polls have shifted, and membership in the SNP has swelled since the referendum. Add in new oil discoveries thought to have been kept quiet until after the vote, and you have a lot of pissed off No voters.

Just my guess.

 

[Kirkhill]

There's an element of cowardice at play here.  It is easy to be the big man when there is nothing at stake.  It is harder when there are consequences.

They had their chance, and in their own terms, they bottled it.  Now they have to live with it.  But like many another before them they will continue their whining and ranting and being obnoxious.

 

[Scott]

And likely not representative of the actual numbers, either. Just like there's "third man on the balcony" in many pubs, I am sure everyone was now a Yes vote among their friends. Matters little, I guess. Like you said, they had their chance and blew it.

 

[CougarKing]

Let's see if Salmond gets his wish within 20 years...

Reuters

Scotland to become independent 'within 20 years', says defeated nationalist leader

(...SNIPPED)

Alex Salmond, the SNP's outgoing leader who unsuccessfully spearheaded the independence campaign, said on Sunday the desire for change was so strong, even among those who voted no, that independence was now inevitable.

Asked if he thought Scotland would become independent in the next 10 or 20 years, Salmond said "Yes".

(...SNIPPED)

 

[daftandbarmy]

Let's see if Salmond gets his wish within 20 years...

Reuters

I am sure that the 47 registered voters left in Scotland, who are British citizens, at that time will make the right decision

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/migobs/Briefing%20-%20long-term%20international%20migration%20flows%20Scotland_0.pdf

 

[CougarKing]

A notable update in the wake of the shocking Brexit referendum result:

BBC

Brexit: Nicola Sturgeon says second Scottish independence vote 'highly likely'

    49 minutes ago

Scotland's first minister has said a second independence referendum is "highly likely" after the UK voted to leave the EU.

Nicola Sturgeon said it was "democratically unacceptable" that Scotland faced the prospect of being taken out of the EU against its will.

She said the Scottish government would begin preparing legislation to enable another independence vote.

Scotland voted in favour of the UK staying in the EU by 62% to 38%.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[tomahawk6]

A similar move is afoot with Ireland and Northern Ireland.Although there is little chance IMO.

 

[jollyjacktar]

It didn't take long for her to start her moaning again.

 

[dimsum]

Wonder how that will affect EX Joint Warrior (and the bases in Scotland).

 

[Kirkhill]

http://survation.com/a-tale-of-two-referendums-fear-of-leaving-eu-has-little-effect-on-pro-independence-scots-2/

This from just before the Scottish Referendum.

If there was a referendum held tomorrow on whether the UK should remain a member of the European Union, how would you be most likely to vote?

And based on 55% voting to stay in the UK and 45% voting to leave I come up with this:

25% of Scots wanted the status quo - Scotland in the UK and the UK in the EU
24% of Scots wanted Scotland in an independent UK
24% of Scots wanted an independent Scotland in the EU
15% of Scots wanted Scotland out of both the EU and the UK
11% of Scots didn't know and probably didn't care

Given that the status quo is now off the table good luck to any politician predicting how my ex-countrymen might break now.

 

[Brad Sallows]

As I speculated in the other thread, the future of an independent Scotland in the EU is probably as a de facto colony of North Africa.

 

[cavalryman]

As I speculated in the other thread, the future of an independent Scotland in the EU is probably as a de facto colony of North Africa.

Hence the need for a new, much higher Hadrian's wall.... A job for Donald Trump, which would make his reception by the Scots the other day rather ironic  >

 

[tomahawk6]

I admire the Scots as warriors throughout its long history.However,at the same time at critical points in history they made some bad decisions.In the 21st cntury they seem to be hell bent to leave the UK.I hope in time that people will stop and rethink their path.

 

[cupper]

I admire the Scots as warriors throughout its long history.However,at the same time at critical points in history they made some bad decisions.In the 21st cntury they seem to be hell bent to leave the UK.I hope in time that people will stop and rethink their path.

Two things explain this: Scotch and Haggis.

Just saying.