Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread

[geo]

Not sure if we have received updates on the possible wound medal to replace the stripe, anyone in the know please fill in. I feel that it would be nice to pay proper respect to these outstanding troops, but also agree with our history being held tight. On the fence.

As for the Combat Badge, although I can see by the posts being shut down, I have to politely disagree with moderators on this one. The biggest argument against is that India C/S just need there tour medals, and everyone that counts will know. I do not see this as a strong argument. First of all, in this 360 degree war, there are other trades involved in this combat. Medics, truckers, E C/S, MPs, Arty, INT, Navy EOD, Sigs (Army and Navy). These troops are all outside the wire, on the front line, getting shot at, shooting back, and getting blown up from time to time. During certain battles ( 03 Aug 06) some of these non India C/S fought bitterly, alongside our Infantry. Here is the kicker. Did you know that the Swasm with bar is worn by hundreds of sailors who have (no disrespect intended, just a different job) sailed the Seas over there in support, but never even seen Afghanistan. I do not see this as a fair comparsion, with the combat support in the field, who had to return fire, with sailors at sea. On parade there would be no visual difference between a sailor with two combat tours, to a sailor with one, at sea, tour. To me this is a no brainer, but of course, everyone is entitled to their view. Full respect given to Infantry of course, Cheers.

Umm... don't see your argument for the Combat Badge.
We know that there will be three classes of badges... but that is all we know right now.
Until such time as the badge comes out and the rules & regulations on them comes out - there is no point arguing about it.... we just don't know (or aren't at liberty to discuss the matter).
Wait out & pass your comments when there is something to comment about,.

 

[armyvern]

As for the Combat Badge, although I can see by the posts being shut down, I have to politely disagree with moderators on this one.

Just to clear this statement by you up ...

You wouldn't be disagreeing with moderators on this one, as they have been posting as regular site users; whether or not they happen to be a mod is a non-issue regarding their thoughts on the CAB.

Posts made by moderators acting in an "as staff" manner, would be followed by something like this:

"ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff"

If that's not there --- we are just the same as any other user and you are quite welcome to engage us.

 

[PMedMoe]

Did you know that the Swasm with bar is worn by hundreds of sailors who have (no disrespect intended, just a different job) sailed the Seas over there in support, but never even seen Afghanistan.

And SWASM stands for what? South West Asia Service Medal.  Not Afghanistan.  We got a different medal for that.

 

[George Wallace]

........... I do not see this as a fair comparsion, with the combat support in the field, who had to return fire, with sailors at sea. On parade there would be no visual difference between a sailor with two combat tours, to a sailor with one, at sea, tour. To me this is a no brainer, but of course, everyone is entitled to their view. Full respect given to Infantry of course, Cheers.

Although I am Army, I find your generalization offensive.  You seem to think that the Navy is doing nothing in the Region.  You seem to have the impression that they are on a "Cruise".  You think nothing of the dangers that their Boarding Parties face daily.  You think nothing of the surveillance that they conduct.  You think nothing of the indirect support that they provide.  In the end, I think your comments were not well thought out and very inconsiderate to the role the Navy is playing.

 

[Greymatters]

Although I am Army, I find your generalization offensive.  You seem to think that the Navy is doing nothing in the Region.  You seem to have the impression that they are on a "Cruise".  You think nothing of the dangers that their Boarding Parties face daily.  You think nothing of the surveillance that they conduct.  You think nothing of the indirect support that they provide.  In the end, I think your comments were not well thought out and very inconsiderate to the role the Navy is playing. 

An oft repeated theme - the other elements/arms are always slacking and doing nothing...

 

[2 Cdo]

And SWASM stands for what? South West Asia Service Medal.  Not Afghanistan.  We got a different medal for that.

Really? I only got SWASM for being in Afghanistan. Not like some who got 2 medals for 1 tour.

 

[vonGarvin]

Really? I only got SWASM for being in Afghanistan. Not like some who got 2 medals for 1 tour.

And others get 1 medal for 2 tours ;D

 

[2 Cdo]

And others get 1 medal for 2 tours ;D

Noted. Just being a dink.

I also recall that numbers were not to be issued for subsequent tours where SWASM was concerned.

 

[c4th]

Did you know that the Swasm with bar is worn by hundreds of sailors who have (no disrespect intended, just a different job) sailed the Seas over there in support, but never even seen Afghanistan. .... On parade there would be no visual difference between a sailor with two combat tours, to a sailor with one, at sea, tour.

Oh well, they appear to be entitled to wear the bar IAW http://www.forces.gc.ca/dhh/honours_awards/chart/engraph/chart_display_e.asp?cat=3&ref=SWASM  or:  The medal with bar is awarded for 30 days cumulative service after 11 September 2001 in the theatre of operations, which is a subset of the United States Central Command Area of Operation Responsibility (USCENTCOM AOR). The theatre of operations is defined as the land, sea, or air spaces of Afghanistan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, the Persian Gulf, Gulf of Oman, Arabian Sea, Gulf of Aden, Red Sea, Suez Canal and those parts of the Indian Ocean north of 5° South Latitude and west of 68° East Longitude.

Medals and bars are not about being different.  For that matter, neither are parades. 

 

[Reccesoldier]

Noted. Just being a dink.

I also recall that numbers were not to be issued for subsequent tours where SWASM was concerned.

Numbers are a UN/NATO creation.  There is (as of yet) no scope in the CF Honours system to recognize multiple tours.

 

[PB]

"Although I am Army, I find your generalization offensive.  You seem to think that the Navy is doing nothing in the Region.  You seem to have the impression that they are on a "Cruise".  You think nothing of the dangers that their Boarding Parties face daily.  You think nothing of the surveillance that they conduct.  You think nothing of the indirect support that they provide.  In the end, I think your comments were not well thought out and very inconsiderate to the role the Navy is playing."

George,
There seems to be some communication errors here. I certainly did not bash the Navy, I am just trying to tread lightly on a mostly Army site. I have witnessed our Army doing there job at the most extreme, and doing it well. I  would not take away any respect from anyone's overseas duty. I have been on both of the roles described, on a ship at sea during War, (Gulf and Kuwait), and in Afghanistan (Outside the wire, ROTO 1). I am taking nothing away from the Navy at all, just stating it is a different tour at sea, than living in tents, with no AC, getting shot at and possibly blown up. I see a huge difference in living conditions and threat level. If you have experienced both and think they are on the same level, you are free to your opinion, it bothers me not. I have full respect for all elements overseas, my comments are well thought out, and I am fully aware of the Navy's role; I have been wearing a anchor cap badge for 20 years. Try not to be so easily offended, that was not my intent. Cheers, PB

 

[PB]

"And SWASM stands for what? South West Asia Service Medal.  Not Afghanistan.  We got a different medal for that."
Pmedmo,

I understand what it stands for, it was awarded to ROTO1 Afghanistan, and some earlier tours; they did not work under ISAF. If you happen to overlap commands for a certain period, you got both, SWASM and the Star, which is not as high on the medal seniority list, but looks cooler( Just my thoughts...). Main "real" issue with the Swasm, right now, no number bar for 2nd, or 3rd tours. Lots of guys came home with just a sheet of paper saying thanks. That's not cool, hopefully the numbering happens before they all retire. I think the present tour will get both, not sure on that one. Cheers, PB

GEO,
Thanks for the update on CAB, not seeing anything on it from my Coast. Cheers, PB.

 

[PMedMoe]

BTW, I also got two medals for my tour to Bosnia;  Former Yugoslavia and Peacekeeping.   

As far as different living conditions, danger, etc.  That's what hardship pay and danger pay is for, not medals, IMHO.

 

[PB]

BTW, I also got two medals for my tour to Bosnia;  Former Yugoslavia and Peacekeeping.   

As far as different living conditions, danger, etc.  That's what hardship pay and danger pay is for, not medals, IMHO.

Good Point,
The Navy also recieves Tax free danger pay, but not to the same level. To banter a bit thou, your money will be spent before you know it, medals are worn proudly, and passed on.... Just a thought, Cheers, PB.

 

[PhilB]

All though it seems that this is an unpopular concept, I think that the CAB is the perfect solution to this issue. The issue as I see it;

The same medal is being awarded for "roughly" the same theater. Many feel that the hardships, danger, etc between those actually in Afghanistan and those conducting naval operations in the area (I wont even mention those that were posted at CENTCOM during Apollo  : ) are not on par, and as such should be recognized separately.This issue is further compounded by the vastly different degrees of danger faced by those in different roles on the ground in Afghanistan. Although everyone has an extremely important job in theater, the level of danger faced by those that remain on KAF and ensure a smooth running operation is not nearly the same as those of every trade who go outside the wire.

Now I agree that danger and hardship pay is an answer to the first (navy/army) part of this problem, but not to the difference between inside the wire and outside the wire. Everyone in theater (aside from the OMLET, they make lvl 6 danger pay I believe) makes the same hardship and danger pay, despite having extremely different levels of hardship and danger. Now is the answer for those outside the wire to receive more? For those inside the wire to receive less? Who knows. I am well aware that this is another can of worms, in that what qualifies as outside the wire, but I wont get into that.

Outside of money, I think that the CAB is a great way of distinguishing between those that were involved in combat, and those that werent, those that faced the highest levels of danger and hardship in theater and those that werent. Please note that I am not saying solely the infantry, but all of those trades involved in combat. Just my two cents

 

[PMedMoe]

medals are worn proudly, and passed on

Too true!!

Outside of money, I think that the CAB is a great way of distinguishing between those that were involved in combat, and those that werent, those that faced the highest levels of danger and hardship in theater and those that werent. Please note that I am not saying solely the infantry, but all of those trades involved in combat. Just my two cents

I agree.

 

[PB]

All though it seems that this is an unpopular concept, I think that the CAB is the perfect solution to this issue. The issue as I see it;

The same medal is being awarded for "roughly" the same theater. Many feel that the hardships, danger, etc between those actually in Afghanistan and those conducting naval operations in the area (I wont even mention those that were posted at CENTCOM during Apollo  : ) are not on par, and as such should be recognized separately.This issue is further compounded by the vastly different degrees of danger faced by those in different roles on the ground in Afghanistan. Although everyone has an extremely important job in theater, the level of danger faced by those that remain on KAF and ensure a smooth running operation is not nearly the same as those of every trade who go outside the wire.

Now I agree that danger and hardship pay is an answer to the first (navy/army) part of this problem, but not to the difference between inside the wire and outside the wire. Everyone in theater (aside from the OMLET, they make lvl 6 danger pay I believe) makes the same hardship and danger pay, despite having extremely different levels of hardship and danger. Now is the answer for those outside the wire to receive more? For those inside the wire to receive less? Who knows. I am well aware that this is another can of worms, in that what qualifies as outside the wire, but I wont get into that.

Outside of money, I think that the CAB is a great way of distinguishing between those that were involved in combat, and those that werent, those that faced the highest levels of danger and hardship in theater and those that werent. Please note that I am not saying solely the infantry, but all of those trades involved in combat. Just my two cents

100 % Agree,...... but be careful, some people hate discussing this one....which I find almost amusing, ( I am smiling) for several reasons: 1. Afraid of change.  2. Afraid they don't qualify. 3. Know they will never qualify. Good luck, PB.

 

[Dirty Patricia]

100 % Agree,...... but be careful, some people hate discussing this one....which I find almost amusing, ( I am smiling) for several reasons: 1. Afraid of change.  2. Afraid they don't qualify. 3. Know they will never qualify.

Well said PB!!

I saw the latest version of the CAB.  The centerpiece is the CF tri-service (cornflake) insignia.

 

[aesop081]

3. Know they will never qualify.

Yes...because , deep down, we all just want to be like you guys  :

 

[Dirty Patricia]

Yes...because , deep down, we all just want to be like you guys

We already know that.