Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread

[armyvern]

To you Vern it may not, because you understand the criteria.  However, the name of the medal has brought on this argument, and because of that, the criteria is being attacked.

Had this been named anything else, that would match the criteria, we would not see this.  You even alluded to this with regards to the Wounded Stripe many times on the threads.

dileas

tess

Whooooaaa on the horsey. Is it not your argument that the criteria is wrong?

 

[the 48th regulator]

Whooooaaa on the horsey. Is it not your argument that the criteria is wrong?

Yep.

According to the name of the Medal, and the time limit associated with the issueing of it.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

Yep.

According to the name of the Medal, and the time limit associated with the issueing of it.

dileas

tess

OK, so we call it the "Wound Medal" (Why not? It worked for the Wound Stripe with the same criteria) ... are those families any happier now?

Honestly ...

(I agree with your time limit observation - as already noted in previous posts. I don't believe though that a name change will fix anything - fact is that parents want this medal for their sons/daughters. They won't be happy with a name change - they want the medal. They want a criteria change.)

 

[George Wallace]

- the complaints are coming from people whose loved ones do not qualify as per the "hostile intent" criteria --- and that is why they are upset.

I think this may be the central part of the argument.  These people, in their grief are equating any and all deaths as being simple "a Death", all one and the same.  They aren't differentiating between circumstances.  To them a fatality by hostile action is the same as a fatality due to being hit by a bus; a Death.  To them it doesn't matter the circumstances.  They really don't care about "criteria".

 

[the 48th regulator]

I think this may be the central part of the argument.  These people, in their grief are equating any and all deaths as being simple "a Death", all one and the same.  They aren't differentiating between circumstances.  To them a fatality by hostile action is the same as a fatality due to being hit by a bus; a Death.  To them it doesn't matter the circumstances.  They really don't care about "criteria".

Bang on.

They are Shocked that the Sacrifice of their loved one is not the same Sacrifice as others who are awarded the medal due to hostile methods.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

Bang on.

They are Shocked that the Sacrifice of their loved one is not the same Sacrifice as others who are awarded the medal due to hostile methods.

dileas

tess

No one disagrees with that Tess, but even IF the name of the medal is changed to a more fitting/appropriate one ...

Do you HONESTLY think these families will be happy until the criteria is changed to render their loved ones eligible for it's awarding? Honestly.


I don't. We're seeing "criteria creep" already occuring now with the move to insert new comments to justify it's AWARDING (not renaming) to thier loved ones like "but he was killed in a combat theatre". That's criteria creep, it's nothing to do with the name of the medal. So, if we move the criteria to include those killed by NDs/accidents etc in "combat theatres" then are we not then just pushing the hurt onto more families? Because, no matter what the name of the medal is, all that criteria creep will accomplish is to make the families of those "volunteers" killed "performing their duties to Crown and Country" who were killed due to accidents/NDs while "not in combat theatres" be made to feel that their own loved one's death is somehow lesser.

By their comments to justify their own loved one's earning of it "due to accidents in combat theatres", they are now using criteria creeping to make their own loved ones Sacrifice out to be greater than that of other soldiers who've died due to the exact same causes while perfoming their Duty to Crown and Country IN Canada or on UN tours, elsewhere. And, I'm sorry - it's NOT more worthy than theirs either - it was AN accident! It's not more of a Sacrifice because of where it occured.

This medal is awarded because of HOW a death or injury occured (hostile intent) not because of where it occured. This has been explained to them. And, maybe it's just me ... but even though I fully respect all of our soldiers, all of our fallen, and all of our injured ... I DO believe that there is a distinct difference between those who have Sacrified due to a deliberate attempt by others who "intended to harm or kill them" and those who die in other circumstances where there was no "intent to kill or harm present (accidents or NDs if you will)". An accident is an accident - no matter where it occurs.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current criteria (save for the backdating) and I think all this move to "criteria creep" is plain old wrong, but now that the medal is out of the bag - a simple name change isn't going to fix anything because deep down inside - families want it awarded - not renamed.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Vern,

I give up.

We are arguing the same bloody point.

I am trying to explain, why I believe this medal has made the controversy.  As we all said, in a million ways from Timbuktu, that had the medal been left alone and the wounded stripe was still issued there would be no issue. 

Had the medal been called the Wounded Medal, Crimson Maple leaf, the I love tess 'cause he is a neat fellow award, or any other term I am sure the loved ones and others would not have been drawn to the medal.

However, would you agree (And in essence you do) that the word Sacrifice is what is causing the challenges? 

I have given the dictionary and my opinion, based on the name of the medal

I have given my reasons why I feel that the criteria for time limit stinks

Now as for the current criteria, if you take away the name, and break it down with this post by you, which perfectly shows the true meaning behind the medal;



We are bantering back and forth the same argument.  I, say the medal name and criteria do no match, and something must be done.  Either fix the name or issue the medal to these few soldiers.


dileas

tess

 

[Panzertech]

I like you prefer the wound strip it was something that set itself apart from just another medal. With all the Gimmie medal these for polishing a higher up's well you get That idea. Not a fan of the Wound Medal name as it is to close to wound stripe, blood medal doesn't take in to account the mentally injured (No matter your opinion on that). I never liked being a called combat casualty seems demeaning to me.  I prefer Combat wounded medal or Theatre Wounded Medal.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

It was originally going to be called the Maple Leaf

 

[Infanteer]

Starship Troopers had "The Wounded Lion".... ^-^

 

[axeman]

This one has never been considered a "GIMME" medal.  unless you get a gimme by taking an injury of any sort for a senior. The awarding of this medal  has as you have seen has been quite contentious . While the wording of the reasons for the award  has been muddled by unfortunate facts  that unfortunatly not everyone will be awarded it. and others who should be awarded it will not receive it do to the fact they will not accept it. For some others will have to get the paperwork started for them to be awarded it and it may come like a friends CD 2 in the mail . i kid you not a CD2  was delivered by mail .. . i am on my way downtown to VA to ensure another friends Sacrifice Medal is awarded.

 

[forgotten]

I would just like to thank you folks and as well for "The Centre" for their assistance in Finally getting my wound stripe!! I will be presented with at my former reserve Unit which i served in prior to going Reg force. They had to get my files from the national archives and as well all of my medical docs and my VAC files. i wanted to do this in a proper and legal way and as NOT to be branded as a "poser". I was fortunate enough to know while I was in the forces to document everything that happened, as we do get older and we suffer for the "follies" of our youth. You might NOT feel it then but ohhh God as the years pass your  like..What the??!! For anyone who is interested here is the URL for "The Centre". I have no complaints in any way about VAC and in particular the Centre..Both have been there for me.


http://www.dnd.ca/centre/engraph/home_e.asp

 

[vonGarvin]

Congratulations!  Perhaps you should change your moniker to "rembered!" 

 

[tristismilitis]

[I am trying to explain, why I believe this medal has made the controversy.  As we all said, in a million ways from Timbuktu, that had the medal been left alone and the wounded stripe was still issued there would be no issue. 

Had the medal been called the Wounded Medal, Crimson Maple leaf, the I love tess 'cause he is a neat fellow award, or any other term I am sure the loved ones and others would not have been drawn to the medal.]

The above quote says it all. The wound stripe was for WOUNDED soldiers, not for fallen soldiers and I'm not sure why that had to change. This particular issue would not exist if not for the addition of "died...under honourable circumstances".
Personally, if it was me looking down from above (regardless of how I died), I wouldn't want this medal, give it to the wounded soldiers who are still here to wear it. I know there are soldiers who are no longer with us that would agree.
There is no way to take back what has been done, regardless of changing the name or the criteria, there are people who have been hurt.  This issue now is how to proceed in a way that is as fair as possible (if that is possible!). Instead of awarding the new medal to all fallen soldiers maybe they could just stick to the wounded soldiers.
ALL of the fallen have their names written in the Book of Remembrance and their families wear the Memorial Cross to honour and remember the person they have lost.

A medal isn't going to make things better for any of us, but so far it is making things worse.

 

[Starlight31]

Well, some interesting news!! Two of my friends (MMV) that were going to the GG's for the 12th of Nov were just notified that the SM ceremony is delayed.  They are looking at some of the regulations.

From some of my other friends, I guess enough people raised enough hell to get a review done.. 

 

[geo]

Well, some interesting news!! Two of my friends (MMV) that were going to the GG's for the 12th of Nov were just notified that the SM ceremony is delayed.  They are looking at some of the regulations.

From some of my other friends, I guess enough people raised enough hell to get a review done.. 

If the people were entitled to em... there is no reason to delay the presentation of the medals.
If some people have been missed.... they can be scheduled for a subsequent presentation.

 

[military granny]

This is the note sent out.

Sacrifice Medal Inauguration Ceremony Postponed!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sacrifice Medal Inaugural Ceremony postponement

All 50 guests must be contacted ASAP and informed the subject ceremony, which was planned for 12 Nov 08, has been postponed.

Key messages:

In light of the issues raised by members of the public with regards to the Sacrifice Medal following its announcement, the Minister of National Defence has asked the Chief of the Defence Staff to conduct a review of the criteria for the new Medal and formulate a recommendation to the appropriate Government Honours Committee. The review is currently underway and it has been decided that it would not be appropriate for the inaugural ceremony to take place before a final decision has been taken with regards to the future of the Medal.

 

[HItorMiss]

Maybe now they will scrap this rediculous thing!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Maybe now they will scrap this rediculous thing!

..or at least skim the 37 pages of this thread for some of the better ideas.

 

[RHFC_piper]

Maybe now they will scrap this rediculous thing!

Agreed!



This has become a farce...  I'll keep my wound stripe; it has history, tradition and dignity... 3 things which seem to be lacking, or being stripped from, the "Sacrifice Medal".