Replacing the Subs

[KevinB]

Welcome to AUKUS

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

If Canada joins, does it become CAUKUS?

 

[Maxman1]

If Canada joins, does it become CAUKUS?

 

[KevinB]

If Canada joins, does it become CAUKUS?

AUKUSc

 

[Good2Golf]

AUKUSc

Putting the ‘C’ into TEAM.

 

[Underway]

The PM, MND Blair, the Foreign Minister also mentioned the possible procurement of submarines. Does it means Canada will replace the Victoria Class submarines ?

I'll go out on a limb here and say its a guarantee.

IMO - maybe, but it is encouraging to hear the leader and senior politicians talking about. Like any skeptic, I'll believe it when the government announces it and actually provides the project office with sufficient funds to buy subs. I don't think that it is realistic for Canada to buy nuclear subs.

I think they already have the sub picked out. Who's building submarines right now and who's willing to build them for us on short timeframe. And that likely is Korea. Korean defence exporters are happy to delay their own equipment delivery to meet foreign demand, particularly in already running programs (K9 SPG is a good example). Right now the KSIII Mk2 is going into production in Korea. As such that would be a quick turnaround for the contract. The expectation (hope?) is that we'll have new subs in less than 5 years.

KSIII Mk2 is an interesting sub. Lithium Ion batteries, AIP and 10 Ballistic missile launch tubes on a DE sub.

 

[YZT580]

I'll go out on a limb here and say its a guarantee.

I think they already have the sub picked out. Who's building submarines right now and who's willing to build them for us on short timeframe. And that likely is Korea. Korean defence exporters are happy to delay their own equipment delivery to meet foreign demand, particularly in already running programs (K9 SPG is a good example). Right now the KSIII Mk2 is going into production in Korea. As such that would be a quick turnaround for the contract. The expectation (hope?) is that we'll have new subs in less than 5 years.

KSIII Mk2 is an interesting sub. Lithium Ion batteries, AIP and 10 Ballistic missile launch tubes on a DE sub.

Maybe we should place two orders: join up with the US, Britain and Australia on the nuclear programme whilst knowing that first delivery won't be for at least 15 years and probably closer to 20. Meanwhile order Korean boats off the shelf to bridge the gap in capability

 

[KevinB]

Maybe we should place two orders: join up with the US, Britain and Australia on the nuclear programme whilst knowing that first delivery won't be for at least 15 years and probably closer to 20. Meanwhile order Korean boats off the shelf to bridge the gap in capability

I’m sorry that is a logical plan, and thus will be ignored…

 

[Kirkhill]

Demonstrable evolution ---

From a surface navy to a submarine navy.

Russia Now Uses Submarines to Patrol Black Sea Following Naval Losses: Report

Russia’s naval fleet has reportedly suffered tremendous losses in Ukraine and now resorts to submarines to continue patrolling the Black Sea.

www.thedefensepost.com

Russia’s naval fleet has reportedly suffered tremendous losses in Ukraine and now resorts to submarines to continue patrolling the Black Sea.

Speaking on national television, Kyiv’s Southern Defense Forces spokesperson Dmytro Pletenchuk said the invading forces have recently begun a practice where their submarines rotate in the morning.

“In the Azov-Black Sea region, they have four submarines, three of which are cruise missile carriers. Two submarines periodically go to sea,” he disclosed.

This comes as the Ukrainian military claimed to have destroyed 30 percent of Moscow’s Black Sea fleet by the end of 2023.

Surface vessels at risk from LRPFs, UxVs and Air Attacks as well as blockade and mines. Submarines reduce some of those vulnerabilities, even if diesel-electric.

 

[KevinB]

Demonstrable evolution ---

From a surface navy to a submarine navy.

Russia Now Uses Submarines to Patrol Black Sea Following Naval Losses: Report

Russia’s naval fleet has reportedly suffered tremendous losses in Ukraine and now resorts to submarines to continue patrolling the Black Sea.

www.thedefensepost.com

Surface vessels at risk from LRPFs, UxVs and Air Attacks as well as blockade and mines. Submarines reduce some of those vulnerabilities, even if diesel-electric.

“Patrolling”

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If Canada joins, does it become CAUKUS?

The question should be, will the other four eyes allow Canada to participate, given our relationship with Red China.

 

[suffolkowner]

Hmm KSS3

Block 1 or Block 2?
Hanwha or Hyundai?
6VLS or 10VLS or none?

 

[Underway]

Hmm KSS3

Block 1 or Block 2?
Hanwha or Hyundai?
6VLS or 10VLS or none?

Block 1 is not being built anymore. Block 2 has started. I expect it would be block 2. Block 2 comes with 10 VLS. I don't think there would be much Canadianization other then Mk48 torp conversion, and perhaps Tomahawk capability for the VLS instead of the Korean Ballistic Missile. The Sub fleet is happy to adjust to a submarine not make the submarine adjust to them. We're just to small a sub fleet to do otherwise at this point.

 

[suffolkowner]

Block 1 is not being built anymore. Block 2 has started. I expect it would be block 2. Block 2 comes with 10 VLS. I don't think there would be much Canadianization other then Mk48 torp conversion, and perhaps Tomahawk capability for the VLS instead of the Korean Ballistic Missile. The Sub fleet is happy to adjust to a submarine not make the submarine adjust to them. We're just to small a sub fleet to do otherwise at this point.

Makes sense just noticing that Block 2 has much greater Korean sourced equipment than Block 1.
Do we need or want 10 VLS though?
What about the CMS?

 

[Underway]

Makes sense just noticing that Block 2 has much greater Korean sourced equipment than Block 1.
Do we need or want 10 VLS though?
What about the CMS?

The more change the more cost. So in my mind as few changes as possible.

 

[dimsum]

The question should be, will the other four eyes allow Canada to participate, given our relationship with Red China.

The Aussies are allowed in…

China interference in Australian politics – The Diplomat

Asia-Pacific’s leading current affairs magazine.

thediplomat.com

 

[DBNSG]

The Aussies are allowed in…

China interference in Australian politics – The Diplomat

Asia-Pacific’s leading current affairs magazine.

thediplomat.com

Probably because there has been public acknowledgement in Australia of China as a potentially hostile power.
Canadian politicians I suspect think they can make money from China.Look the other way and ALL THAT.

 

[Underway]

 

[Czech_pivo]

Block 1 is not being built anymore. Block 2 has started. I expect it would be block 2. Block 2 comes with 10 VLS. I don't think there would be much Canadianization other then Mk48 torp conversion, and perhaps Tomahawk capability for the VLS instead of the Korean Ballistic Missile. The Sub fleet is happy to adjust to a submarine not make the submarine adjust to them. We're just to small a sub fleet to do otherwise at this point.

Any concern that the publicly stated endurance of the SK subs is 1/3 less than the publicly stated endurance of the Vic's?

 

[Dana381]

Forgive me if this has been asked before but if say we do get nuke subs, and I realize that is a huge if. Would the vics be usable in a training role? Would it be cheaper to train Sailors on the vics then transfer them to the nuke boats. I realize some trades wouldn't transfer but a lot of trades would.