Replacing the Subs

[Kirkhill]

Armament?

Combat capability…

And yet other navies sail Offshore Patrol Vessels

HMS Tamar (P233) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

....

I am hearing arguments for an array of UAS systems, layers of guns and missiles. Doesn't the RCN, and the Government, benefit from having a broad array of vessels available? Does every ship have to be top of the line?

 

[KevinB]

And yet other navies sail Offshore Patrol Vessels

HMS Tamar (P233) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

....

I am hearing arguments for an array of UAS systems, layers of guns and missiles. Doesn't the RCN, and the Government, benefit from having a broad array of vessels available? Does every ship have to be top of the line?

When you only have a pittance of ships, you can’t afford pleasure craft.

 

[Stoker]

Armament?

Buds I made my career of over 30 years in ships that had less armament than AOPS and not once did I feel at risk. Not every ship is armed alike but can still do useful service to Canada. Different ships do different things.

 

[suffolkowner]

Buds I made my career of over 30 years in ships that had less armament than AOPS and not once did I feel at risk. Not every ship is armed alike but can still do useful service to Canada. Different ships do different things.

I guess the question is what is the role of the AOPS during a war?

 

[Stoker]

I guess the question is what is the role of the AOPS during a war?

I would imagine the RCN and government would have them do something. MCM, route survey, SUBSAR, providing security in home waters who knows. We all know its not going to be sent off in a combatant role. Perhaps it will be tied up and personnel allocated elsewhere. It has a peacetime role like any other ship.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I want to watch when someone asks the question of what do we use them for during wartime to the powers to be. And for just for laughs include some of the people who signed off on building them in the first place
I want to see their facial expressions as they attempt to explain.
I suspect that it's the old "Canadian thing ".
You know, wars happen to OTHER people.

I would imagine the RCN and government would have them do something. MCM, route survey, SUBSAR, providing security in home waters who knows. We all know its not going to be sent off in a combatant role. Perhaps it will be tied up and personnel allocated elsewhere. It has a peacetime role like any other ship.

Troop ships - cram a couple hundred reinforcements for Latvia in an emergency.
Won't be comfortable , won't be all that fast. Might not even get outside the 200 mile limit before being sunk .
Probably not .
On the other hand you might be able to fully man the frigates if you used the AOPs as a source.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I would expect by 2024, it should be well beaten into the heads of everybody here that AOPS are not combatants and thus are not armed like a combatant. AOPS is already a bit of a franken vessels as it is now design wise, it doesn't need to be a three way tug of war trying to arm it up with systems that don't add particular value to its roles.

 

[quadrapiper]

I would expect by 2024, it should be well beaten into the heads of everybody here that AOPS are not combatants and thus are not armed like a combatant. AOPS is already a bit of a franken vessels as it is now design wise, it doesn't need to be a three way tug of war trying to arm it up with systems that don't add particular value to its roles.

Would imagine something with a "combatant" armament*, plus AOPS-level icebreaking capability, plus whatever other capabilities are unique to the AOPS, would be on the large and power-hungry side.

*Assuming it's Arctic-focused, this would mean - what - an ASW suite sufficiently robust that it'll pick up on a sub making quiet under the ice (without any of the bulbs, protrusions, etc. found on vessels not nosing through ice), and sufficient AAW capacity to survive Russian attentions until some form of NORAD cavalry turns up? Really not my field, but the first sounds difficult, if not impossible, especially for a vessel likely operating alone, and the second also seems somewhat challenging.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I guess the question is what is the role of the AOPS during a war?

All Navies have a history of using what ever they can get their hands on in a time of war, admittedly that was in usually in less technologically advanced times.

I suspect you could find a job for them in this auxiliaries list.

List of Royal Canadian Navy ships of the Second World War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JMCanada]

Was this the "replacing the subs" thread?

 

[Maxman1]

I'll also fall back to my previous question. People. Where do we get them?

 

[Czech_pivo]

I would expect by 2024, it should be well beaten into the heads of everybody here that AOPS are not combatants and thus are not armed like a combatant. AOPS is already a bit of a franken vessels as it is now design wise, it doesn't need to be a three way tug of war trying to arm it up with systems that don't add particular value to its roles.

Question - why doesn't the RCN simply provide a team to man the armaments/radar aspects of the AOPS, include a 2nd in Command to the ship and turn them ALL over to the CCG. In times of military need/crisis, the RCN 2nd in Command takes over the control of the ship.

 

[Maxman1]

Was this the "replacing the subs" thread?

Now it's the Dress Regs thread.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So…submarines. Who is for them?

 

[OldSolduer]

So…submarines. Who is for them?

Me.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Me.

Me too - 8 of them.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

All Navies have a history of using what ever they can get their hands on in a time of war, admittedly that was in usually in less technologically advanced times.

I suspect you could find a job for them in this auxiliaries list.

List of Royal Canadian Navy ships of the Second World War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Come a major war, Canada is going to need all the Kingston's and AOP's to protect and patrol the coasts. Just maintaining clear routes into Halifax, St Lawrence, Vancouver, Esquimalt, Prince Rupert is going to keep them busy and likely the RCN will have to take over some fishing vessels as well to help out. I expect you would see some very interesting jury rigged armaments sprouting up on them.

I see the threat of a "Q ship" coming in just before a conflict breaks out and deploying smart mines along the routes mentioned above, that will only activate after a certain date. One mine going off and taking out a merchant ship would create havoc in our ports.

 

[KevinB]

Given the crew requirement for CSC, JSS and AOPs, I tend to think that the RCN is better suited into uncrewed subsurface systems, as well as uncrewed surface systems.

 

[Kirkhill]

Where do you find the people? They come in a box for a couple of grand.

You may not like the idea of replacing people with PLCs but you are not the first industry to face the problems of managing people who do not exist.

 

[Kirkhill]

Couple of other points -

Enbridge control stations and SCADA systems.

Enbridge's control Stations and SCADA Systems

www.enbridge.com

https://www.intechww.com/automation/scada-solutions/pipeline-scada

Remote monitoring is not just an RPAS thing. It has been a pipeline thing for a couple of decades.

....

Rusty hulls....

I'm told that these things never degrade.



Steel replaced wood.
Plastic will replace steel. Especially if no crew are involved.

Smart buoys.