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Red/ Green/ White Poppies- Does The Colour Matter?- Merged

Poppies should be red.  No change required.

In light of JM's post above, I'll also get ahead of the curve here with the next 'monthly event debate' and state the following:

- it is a Christmas Tree, vice Holiday Tree or whatever other stupid PC name someone will try to force on me.

- it is perfectly okay to say MERRY CHRISTMAS not just Happy Holidays.

- if you don't like this part of Canada, great!  I also don't celebrate other cultures festive occasions but don't stop other Canadians from enjoying them, please afford me the same courtesy.

There, done and one less thing to worry about during the Christmas season.  :D  Should be good to what...Easter or Victoria Day or something like that.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Poppies should be red.  No change required.

In light of JM's post above, I'll also get ahead of the curve here with the next 'monthly event debate' and state the following:

- it is a Christmas Tree, vice Holiday Tree or whatever other stupid PC name someone will try to force on me.

- it is perfectly okay to say MERRY CHRISTMAS not just Happy Holidays.

- if you don't like this part of Canada, great!  I also don't celebrate other cultures festive occasions but don't stop other Canadians from enjoying them, please afford me the same courtesy.

There, done and one less thing to worry about during the Christmas season.  :D  Should be good to what...Easter or Victoria Day or something like that.

:goodpost:
 
Print a bunch of copies of this and hand one out to anyone who tries to give you a white poppy.  ;)

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Thucydides said:
If someone offers a white poppy, just say:

"I'm wearing a red poppy to remember those who gave their lives so you could be free to make a thoughtless gesture..."

Best thing I have heard all day!

@PMedMoe I am going to be sending that strip everywhere!! Hit the nail on the head.
 
George Wallace said:
To be honest, it isn't so much the "White Poppy" that I find insulting and rude, but the attitude of the people pushing for it and their proposed antics on Remembrance Day.  Would they conduct themselves in a similar manner at a solemn ceremony in a place of worship like a church/synagogue/mosque as well?

You hit it right there.  This isn't about a white poppy.  It isn't even about remembering for peace as they put it.  It's a protest pure and simple.  They don't like red poppies even though they don't understand its true meaning. 

If they decided to wear a white poppy to commemorate some peace day that happens at some other time I'd have no issues with it and would take it a face value.

This is an attempt to co-opt something they despise.  Rememberance Day and all activities surrounding because they believe that it is all about glorifying war. 

This is no different than some people showing up on Gay Pride day with some sort of pro-hetero message or showing up at a Black History event with white pride propaganda.

It's designed to stir **** and to get attention they wouldn't otherwise get on any other day.  If somebody wears that poppy they are nothing but hypocrites.

The fact that it is their right to do so doesn't make the bad taste in one's mouth go away.

Between their Mountain Dew and the crab juice, I'll take the crab juice, thanks. (Simpson's reference for those who are wondering).

Modified for grammar.
 
An interesting take from a former UK RAF member, via his blog, on colours and what he thinks we should remember:
.... I am not going to get in to the outrage caused and felt by the colour of the poppy. Christ, there is room in the garden for poppies of all colours – as long as we are remembering that people died and were killed and fought and suffered for us to have the privilege – the honour – to chose the colour of our poppy. By exercising the choose to wear what the hell we want – or even NOT to wear – we are honouring those men and women.  They died so that we can exercise that choice. 

We don’t dishonour them by not wearing the right colour.  We might dishonour them by what we say though. Calling a poppy a symbol of hate or warmongering, or a symbol of cowardice or a symbol of disrespect does disrespect those who gave their all. It doesn’t matter what colour poppy is worn. As long as some form of remembering is carried out.  Remembering that they lived and died in terrible conditions, facing great hardships that I hope, and pray (even though I am not a religious man) that no one would ever have to suffer again.  Because, at the end of the day we are remembering that people died.

(....)

I am the member of a group that supports the carers of Wounded Injured and Sick service personnel.  And We share our stories, our moods and our troubles and even, when they happen, our successes.  And in this sharing I see that we are not the only ones fighting.  The stories are terrible.  With stories of unfairness, of bad treatment, of injustice, of discrimination, cover-ups and errors. 

People injured in service having to buy their own prosthetic legs.  Pay for their own treatment.  Fund their own adaptations to their houses.  People forced to leave the service they have loved and given their all for and forgotten about and ignored. 

Thankfully the Charities don’t forget them.  Help 4 Heroes, the Royal British Legion, Combat Stress, SSAFA, the individual Benevolent Funds and many many more organisations provide support, both physical and mental to people.  And they do it through the donation of YOUR charity pound.

But, and here’s my rather long winded point, they shouldn’t have to.  It should not be the responsibility of the charity sector to support and aid our injured.  Our own fight seems to be a fight with the government itself.  It seems that governments of all colours throughout the years have consistently said they have supported and cared for the injured of wars and conflicts. But the evidence, clear for all to see is that they haven’t. They don’t ....
 
"In defence of the white poppy" By Todd Pettigrew

Maclean.ca

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/11/06/in-defense-of-the-white-poppy/

Students at the University of Ottawa came under fire this week for supporting the white poppy campaign, a drive to get people to wear a white poppy rather than the traditional red one, on the grounds that the red poppy can be seen as a tacit support of war itself. Since white is traditionally associated with peace, the white poppy is meant to meant to support remembrance but with an emphasis on peace rather than war itself.

This piece in The Toronto Sun sneers at students for “hopping aboard” a “left wing” bandwagon. The Minister of Veterans Affairs jumped in too, calling the campaign “totally disrespectful.” Meanwhile, over at the National Post, Matt Gurney claims that the “very existence” of the campaign “is insulting by its implication that the red poppy glorifies war.”

Too bad. The red poppy does glorify war. And it has been so successful in doing so that it seems as though its supporters don’t even realize they are doing it. Celyn Dufay, the Ottawa student at the centre of this imbroglio is quite right in explaining, simply enough, “we want to work for peace.”

Here’s what people like Dufay are up against. Gurney, for example, who writes:

there are still Canadians today who remember the Second World War, even fought in it. There are also thousands of Canadians with us today who served in Afghanistan, and countless Canadians who loved or knew someone who went to that far-off land and never returned. There are Canadians who died in peacetime, in accidents at home and abroad, while standing guard in Western Europe across from the might of the Soviet Red Army, or while doing their best to bring peace to war-torn lands abroad.

If I may presume to speak for the students in question, I would suggest that it is the thinly-veiled celebration of the martial spirit that they find troubling. Gurney, for instance, invokes the romantic image of the poor loved ones left at home, as if our forces did not deprive others of their loved ones, and adds more romance with the fairy tale diction of the “far off land.”  No mention of that far off land called Somalia, though, where Canadian soldiers disgraced our nation in 1993 with their murders and lies. No mention of the host of scandals that have plagued the forces. No mention of the forces standing on guard when the military assisted in rounding up Japanese immigrants during the Second World War. Oh, and no mention that the mighty Red Army of the Soviets didn’t seem so bad to us when we allied with it and turned half of Europe over to its brutal, oppressive regime.

But Gurney’s view is nuanced compared to that of the Royal Canadian Legion, which markets the red poppies and which has threatened to sue over the white poppy campaign. As the Legion’s web site has it:

it is not only to honour the fallen that we observe Remembrance Day each and every year. As part of our observance, we also acknowledge the courage and sacrifice of both the Veterans including currently serving.

Again, the rhetoric of heroism is clear. Deceased soldiers are not dead but “fallen.” No one went to war because of wartime propaganda that stoked racism or shamed them into it, but rather because of their “courage.” And no talk of the needless slaughter of millions of pawns in power struggles of empires. No, only talk of “sacrifice” as though the soldiers wanted to die. How can the Legion and its supporters look anyone in the eye and claim not to glorify war?

Perhaps there are times when war is necessary and that may require men and women who are willing to go to war. But even if there is, doing that which is necessary is not necessarily heroic. There are such things as necessary evils. The white-poppy students are suggesting war isn’t one of them. It’s quite within the bounds of civilized discourse for students to suggest that there is nothing heroic about signing up to kill, being trained to kill, and then going and killing. This is not to dishonour the memory of the dead, but to rethink it. In this view, the dead soldier is not a hero. He’s a victim.

So I applaud Dufay and company for their stand. If we are to work for peace, we have to challenge our conventional thinking about war. That’s what education—and white poppies—are all about.

Todd Pettigrew is an associate professor of English at Cape Breton University.

I'm not going to comment on the stupidity of this post.

But I just wanted to know what Mr.Pettigrew meant by this?

Oh, and no mention that the mighty Red Army of the Soviets didn’t seem so bad to us when we allied with it and turned half of Europe over to its brutal, oppressive regime.

I know the we were allied with the U.S.S.R, but turning half of Europe over to it?
 
This post is again almost at the limit of frustration. I don't care if someone wants to promote peace through the symbol of a white poppy. However to do it on Remembrance Day and to try to take away from the solemnity of the day and the importance of it to so many of us is in such poor taste. If it wasn't exactly what these self righteous pricks wanted us to do I would happily fill them in.
 
George Wallace said:
And we wonder where our Education System is failing us:


Beyond words.

I have sent an email to CBUs student association in hopes on bringing his views to the attention of all the students.

I'm holding out hope that the Mr.Pettigrews thoughts are shared by only a very small minority of people.
 
I got into it with some idiot hippy wearing a surplus Navy jacket with trade and rank badges... Honestly, fighting it and this is a lost cause. They're already lost in their delusions.
 
PrairieThunder said:
I got into it with some idiot hippy wearing a surplus Navy jacket with trade and rank badges... Honestly, fighting it and this is a lost cause. They're already lost in their delusions.

;D

Due of course to the smoking the product of the White Poppy.

>:D
 
You know, it's not really the white poppy that gets to me.  The meaning behind it is simple enough - white denotes peace, the poppy denotes remembrance therefore the white poppy remembers the fallen and promotes peace focusing on bringing awareness to issues such as disarmament, those innocents affected, etc.

Now, if the people who are flogging the white poppy were to focus on their own campaign instead of bashing what they believe the red poppy stands for (glorifying war, romanticizing death, etc.) I don't think I would be as annoyed.  But I always have a hard time listening or giving any time to someone who's argument is based on solely bashing their opponent.
 
Strike said:
You know, it's not really the white poppy that gets to me.  The meaning behind it is simple enough - white denotes peace, the poppy denotes remembrance therefore the white poppy remembers the fallen and promotes peace focusing on bringing awareness to issues such as disarmament, those innocents affected, etc.

Now, if the people who are flogging the white poppy were to focus on their own campaign instead of bashing what they believe the red poppy stands for (glorifying war, romanticizing death, etc.) I don't think I would be as annoyed.  But I always have a hard time listening or giving any time to someone who's argument is based on solely bashing their opponent.

Ah! Come on!.....You know deep down you just want to call them a bunch of dope smoking surrender monkeys.    >:D
 
I am so trying not to care about this.........ok, in all honesty, I don't care.....

But I agree whole-heartedly:
Strike said:
I always have a hard time listening or giving any time to someone who's argument is based on solely bashing their opponent.

Let the sheeple bleat  :boring:



(Yes, that includes you folks whose 'informed' argument doesn't get past "we should just punch them in the face and crush their white poppies")
 
Here is an interesting read:  http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11/08/brett-wilson-white-poppy_n_4243009.html

Calgary millionaire and former dragon in CBC's Dragon's Den, W. Brett Wilson took to Twitter to defend the red poppy and its significance with this tweet:

To the @WhitePoppy movement - be clear - the #RedPoppy does not glorify war nor does the #YellowDaffodil glorify cancer. #RespectOurVeterans

Quite a valid point.  He follows up with a post in reply to one of the White Poppy crowd who contacted him:

SO - I have challenged the white poppy movement - and now I have upset someone for calling the moron's behind the white poppy movement "morons" - here is my public response without identifying the person who challenged me privately - which is fine - I will respect her privacy - anyway - my response:

And to top if off - now I have offended someone who is upset that I am calling the morons morons - in the context that I am bullying them. Let me be clear - crystal clear - the actions of anyone seeking to undermine the Red Poppy as the ONE symbol of respect that I (and most) have for those who have served our country (including BOTH of my mom's brothers - one enlisted at the age of 16 - the other when he turned 18 - the latter retired as a soldier - one of my proudest moments was being at his funeral - and seeing the dignity and respect afforded a deceased soldier - but I digress) are moronic actions. And offensive. And stupid. And un-patriotic. And disturbing. And annoying. AND very very very MORONIC. Anything unclear about that? Any morons that are offended by being called morons best come to a local Remembrance Day ceremony - bring their moronic white poppies - and then wait to talk to a veteran - and explain why morons support white poppies. And now - I apologize for calling the white poppy supporters morons - for they are way below morons in my opinion. They are actually assholes. Or less.

 
Strike said:
You know, it's not really the white poppy that gets to me.  The meaning behind it is simple enough - white denotes peace, the poppy denotes remembrance therefore the white poppy remembers the fallen and promotes peace focusing on bringing awareness to issues such as disarmament, those innocents affected, etc.

If that were only true.
According to these white poppy folks, those who wear the red poppy glorify war, veterans are perpetrators who didn't sacrifice anything, they wilfully committed an act against peace, revelling in bloodlust. No different than the Nazis or Communists or Taliban that they fought against, there is nothing to salute and definitely nothing to hold a parade for. 
Remember the fallen?  If white poppy adherents do it's in a spirit akin to Phil Sheridan's (mis)quote on Indian fighting, and begins "the only good soldier..."

White poppy? No thanks.
 
And in the UK...  arseholes

Fury after Lottery fund snubs Royal British Legion... but awards £95,000 to 'white poppy' conscientious objectors' scheme

    Peace Pledge Union, which distributes controversial white poppies, was awarded a £95,800 grant for project to honour conscientious objectors
    It follows lottery fund’s refusal to fund a £92,200 Royal British Legion scheme to help children seed millions of poppies

By Nick Fagge

PUBLISHED: 01:13 GMT, 9 November 2013

War veterans condemned the Heritage Lottery Fund yesterday for funding pacifists while refusing to support a school poppy project.  The Peace Pledge Union, which distributes controversial white poppies, was awarded a £95,800 grant for a project to honour  conscientious objectors.  It follows the lottery fund’s refusal to fund a £92,200 Royal British Legion scheme to help children seed millions of poppies.  They were intended to flower in honour of Britain’s fallen servicemen during next year’s First World War centenary commemorations.

Graham Mentor-Morris, a former Royal Artilleryman who submitted the lottery bid for the legion’s Greenhithe and Swanscombe branch in Kent, condemned the lottery decision as ‘incredibly wrong’.  ‘Some 16 million people died in the First World War and they are not being respected,’ said Mr Mentor-Morris, 58, who served in the Falklands and Northern Ireland.

‘I feel there was a genuine lack of understanding and respect from the Heritage Lottery Fund. They failed to see the bigger picture.  ‘The campaign that we tried to seek funding for would have involved people from all walks of life, from children as young as three to people as old as 103.  ‘I don’t want to sound bitter, but if you look at the Heritage Lottery Fund they support the trendy things.’

Simon Weston, the Welsh Guardsman badly burned in the Falklands War, said he found the decisions hard to reconcile.  ‘Why is remembering conscientious objectors any more worthy than teaching school children about World War I?’ he said.  ‘People have died to let these people [pacifists] have the rights and freedoms to hold these views.  ‘It seems that the smaller crowd gets the biggest voice. You can be in the majority and be ignored.’

The Peace Pledge Union was founded in 1935 and its members led anti-bombing campaigns during the Second World War.  Its ‘white poppy project’ is intended to honour the 16,000 conscientious objectors who refused to bear arms during the First World War. Many were jailed for their beliefs.  The project will include the production of new online materials, a range of school activities, public events and an exhibition.

The 2014 Real Poppy project, which has the backing of the Prime Minister and the Prince of Wales, will go ahead after DIY chain B&Q stepped in with the money.  The Heritage Lottery Fund said it had not been able to fund the seed project due to ‘high demand’.  Carole Souter, its chief executive, said: ‘It is disappointing that we were unable to support the Greenhithe and Swanscombe application for a Kent-based project to sow poppies across the county.  ‘Demand for our funds is high and we unfortunately cannot fund every application.’  A spokesman for the fund said it was committed to helping people learn about the First World War and has awarded more than £34million for projects marking the centenary.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2494153/Fury-Lottery-fund-snubs-Royal-British-Legion--awards-95-000-conscientious-objectors-fund.html#ixzz2kC5zrwUS
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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2494153/Fury-Lottery-fund-snubs-Royal-British-Legion--awards-95-000-conscientious-objectors-fund.html#ixzz2kC5TaANO
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