Reconstitution

[Navy_Pete]

Don't worry with the RCN policy of disseminating information, lessons learned and Accident Analysis Reports, those things won't happen again.......oh wait.

Apparently calling them 'lessons forgotten' is impolite.

The USN recently released a major fires review that is a good read, but quite similar to us in a lot of respects. The big difference is they seem to have more alongside fires from hotwork, where most of ours are in-service related to equipment issues, improper maintenance, or incorrect operation of machinery. The difference is this review isn't a polite suggestion from down the chain, so they'll likely implement a lot of the recommendations.

https://www.secnav.navy.mil/foia/re...or Release Major Fires Review (19 Oct 21).pdf

Anyway, I guess my point is we're already carrying a lot of inherent problems, so further undermining it by ignoring safety and material standards while not meeting our own internal standard for equipment required to go to sea isn't a great idea for routine sailing (ie SOLAS equivalent), let alone deploying ships on operations. All of that contributes directly to survivability/recoverability, which is largely baked into the design and the assumptions behind the full crewing arrangement. Cutting people from the section bases to add extra combat capabilities directly reduces your ability to take a hit and keep going, but if we were at least doing that on purpose it would be okay. Pretending you are tougher then you are gets people in lots of trouble.

If the RCN was going to do reconstitution properly, figuring out how capable they want the deployers to actually be and how many ships we can reasonably support with the people we actually have would be a start, but won't get there while lying to ourselves about how awesome the combat suite is and that our ships just need a bit of dazzle paint.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I get that this stuff is your personal bugbear, but morale matters.

Yes, we should have spent more time and effort on mechanical things, but doing so at the cost of crew morale isn't the right solution either. We could have the best maintained ships in the world, but they are useless if nobody wants to sail in them.

It comes down to basic discipline. There are rules, for good reason, about what can be installed on a man-of-war.

 

[FJAG]

The fun bit for us is a lot of this was purchased in bulk 30 years ago at build and almost never bought again, so we don't even have tech data, and have to figure things out from scratch. Pretty frequent where we can't find a fit/form replacement either, so unbolting an old valve frequently turns into reconfiguring piping with new flanges (and then can grow to replacing piping when you realize it's too worn to weld new flanges on).

I went on a fact finding trip for the JAG's information knowledge program to Archives Canada storage facility in Halifax. They showed us racks and racks of all the computer tapes for the Halifax class build on large-factor magnetic tape spools. The archivist told us that 1) the tape is physically disintegrating and 2) there is no computer that can read them anymore anyway.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I went on a fact finding trip for the JAG's information knowledge program to Archives Canada storage facility in Halifax. They showed us racks and racks of all the computer tapes for the Halifax class build on large-factor magnetic tape spools. The archivist told us that 1) the tape is physically disintegrating and 2) there is no computer that can read them anymore anyway.

and I bet there are memo's from years past floating around about converting that data to newer formats that were neglected as it "This is not a pressing concern"

 

[dapaterson]

and I bet there are memo's from years past floating around about converting that data to newer formats that were neglected as it "This is not a pressing concern"

Don't worry. We got the executive curl back.

Priorities, don't you know

 

[Furniture]

It comes down to basic discipline. There are rules, for good reason, about what can be installed on a man-of-war.

Indeed, but as I said earlier, it doesn't matter how great our ships are if we can't get people to sail in them.

The RCN can't make the pay better or magically make mess decks into cabins, so wood paneling, wifi, and arcade machines are what they do... The CAF/RCN can't attract and retain people. Part of it is equipment, but a massive part of it is people refuse to put up with living conditions that we accepted 20+ years ago.

I'm not saying maintenance and upkeep isn't important, I'm just saying it shouldn't be sold as a "either/or" against morale.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Indeed, but as I said earlier, it doesn't matter how great our ships are if we can't get people to sail in them.

The RCN can't make the pay better or magically make mess decks into cabins, so wood paneling, wifi, and arcade machines are what they do... The CAF/RCN can't attract and retain people. Part of it is equipment, but a massive part of it is people refuse to put up with living conditions that we accepted 20+ years ago.

I'm not saying maintenance and upkeep isn't important, I'm just saying it shouldn't be sold as a "either/or" against morale.

No I get it, there is a fine line. You're not wrong in what you're saying.

 

[lenaitch]

I went on a fact finding trip for the JAG's information knowledge program to Archives Canada storage facility in Halifax. They showed us racks and racks of all the computer tapes for the Halifax class build on large-factor magnetic tape spools. The archivist told us that 1) the tape is physically disintegrating and 2) there is no computer that can read them anymore anyway.

That's not atypical. Most archives struggle with simply maintaining and cataloguing their original holdings let alone trying to constantly keep the information accessible. It's largely a matter of staffing and funding. And they can only deal with records sent to them by the various ministries and departments - which is another challenge. To do it properly, archives need to not only maintain the original records but constantly upgrade copies into the 'tech du jour'.

Paper and photo prints are astonishingly stable if stored reasonably well. Once electronic media became popular, things got a lot more volatile. Magnetic media degrades both physically and electronically. Even early printers and copiers that used thermo-paper that goes blank after a while.

For a time in my police service, I was tasked with determining then assembling all of our unsolved homicides and found remains. Degraded records were quite common, along with, as you say, the ability to access them. We tried to assembly a bit of 'tech archive' of devices and software but it was largely unsuccessful because we couldn't maintain them.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There are people out their that provide data retrieval from old systems and take the daisy chaining of devices as a challenge.

 

[FJAG]

That's not atypical. Most archives struggle with simply maintaining and cataloguing their original holdings let alone trying to constantly keep the information accessible. It's largely a matter of staffing and funding. And they can only deal with records sent to them by the various ministries and departments - which is another challenge. To do it properly, archives need to not only maintain the original records but constantly upgrade copies into the 'tech du jour'.

Paper and photo prints are astonishingly stable if stored reasonably well. Once electronic media became popular, things got a lot more volatile. Magnetic media degrades both physically and electronically. Even early printers and copiers that used thermo-paper that goes blank after a while.

For a time in my police service, I was tasked with determining then assembling all of our unsolved homicides and found remains. Degraded records were quite common, along with, as you say, the ability to access them. We tried to assembly a bit of 'tech archive' of devices and software but it was largely unsuccessful because we couldn't maintain them.

LAC certainly can't. At least back in 2006-9 when I was dealing with this.

Our issue at JAG with records management was that our files were paper and scattered all over the country. We were researching 1) how to consolidate them and 2) how we could change to electronic archiving.

LAC's problems were storage space due to most departments (particulalry DND) not properly stripping their files of transient records and thereby sending 5 to 10 times the bulk required to be sent; sending material that had only a limited retention period without proper disposal instructions and, at the time, not having a system for electronic storage (other than what appeared to be the equivalent of backup tapes that were very much device dependant. They were exploring, at the time, a form of device independent universal digital storage but I have no idea if that ever bore fruition.

I know that when we looked at options for digitizing JAG records, we settled on a branch-wide RDIMS single point of storage system based on day forward record keeping. There would be no attempt to digitize and import old records.

 

[lenaitch]

There are people out their that provide data retrieval from old systems and take the daisy chaining of devices as a challenge.

No doubt, but based on volume alone, the 'per-unit' cost to governments would be staggering and really not a big spending priority. Information security and privacy would also be issues.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Indeed, but as I said earlier, it doesn't matter how great our ships are if we can't get people to sail in them.

The RCN can't make the pay better or magically make mess decks into cabins, so wood paneling, wifi, and arcade machines are what they do... The CAF/RCN can't attract and retain people. Part of it is equipment, but a massive part of it is people refuse to put up with living conditions that we accepted 20+ years ago.

I'm not saying maintenance and upkeep isn't important, I'm just saying it shouldn't be sold as a "either/or" against morale.

You don't have to have crappy living conditions, but you also can do it properly within some kind of reasonable standard commonly accepted on commercial ships, and then pull it off before you go into real combat. Similarly people shouldn't be drilling into a JP5 tank vent for a laser engraver exhaust and all kinds of stupid things that happens.

Unfortunately now it's a total free-for-all, and some of the paneling is crazy matchstick like material, finished with particularly flammable surface finishes, that I wouldn't put in my shed, commercial surveyors would tell you to pull it off before letting you sail, and isn't allowed in any serious warship, because it turns into massive shrapnel and burns, compared to what is supposed to be there which does neither. And they could at least pretend to properly secure things by tying brackets to existing cable hangers or wireway brackets.

With a bit of funding and actual resources we could do things like that properly, none of which involves half-assing around a standard. Case in point, new mattresses came in and sucked, got reported via the proper channels, millions in new mattresses got written off and comfortable mattresses that also met the standard were bought instead. When the unsexy domestic stuff actually gets priority and funding we can actually fix things.

If they really wanted to retain people, maybe stop way overextending the ships, with the minimum crews and way below what we say ourselves is the minimum standard. Do know a lot of people getting out because they are burnt out but also can't believe the low standard we're running around in and get tired of not being able to sleep properly because of stress.

Also, wood paneling, arcade machines etc won't change the fact that a lot of the ships don't have reliably working hot water/chilled water, so cold showers and moldy compartments is still pretty normal, with constant black water blockages and grey water backing up. That's all mid life upgrade stuff that got cut but makes your day to day shittier when it doesn't work, and will far outweighs all the stupid things we are doing to try and 'improve QoL' that is really just lipstick on a pig.

And the lucky ones that got a new ship get to enjoy lead contamination because someone accepted non-potable valves in the potable water system, which was going to be 'monitored' until it made the paper.

I just find most of the big ideas to be wall papering over bullshit, and the things that might actually make life better but mean less sea days and have the ships more capable when they are actually sailing don't fly because some BGH made a commitment that we would leave Monday am for an exercise no one will actually be aware we are on, outside of a few facebook photos.

 

[Quirky]

Man, would I still join back in the early 2000s if I had access to social media of today? Probably not, but I also feel like everything wasn’t completely broken back then. I really want to know what motivates a person to join the CAF with all the access to information they have today.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Man, would I still join back in the early 2000s if I had access to social media of today? Probably not, but I also feel like everything wasn’t completely broken back then. I really want to know what motivates a person to join the CAF with all the access to information they have today.

Meanwhile, we're looking for a few good gaming addicts

Boot Camp for Gaming Addicts, Gaming Addicts for Boot Camp​

Chinese army discipline reverses video game addiction; meanwhile the U.S. Army leverages it for recruitment

Boot Camp for Gaming Addicts, Gaming Addicts for Boot Camp

There's playing online games, and then there's collecting 68 virtual "husbands" in a game. That's when Chinese parents intervene and send their wayward offspring to a boot camp staffed by soldiers of the People's Liberation Army.

www.popsci.com

 

[Kilted]

According to the new CANFORGEN it looks like we won't be sending another team to the Nijmegen March till 2026 in order to focus on reconstitution.

I'm sure the international aspect adds significantly to the logistical issues, but knowing many people who have participated, I know that there is significant training value. Now I understand it could be slightly more disruptive to the training cycle than in the Militia.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Don’t worry; a LCol will maintain the corporate knowledge “as a secondary duty”.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I get that this stuff is your personal bugbear, but morale matters.

Yes, we should have spent more time and effort on mechanical things, but doing so at the cost of crew morale isn't the right solution either. We could have the best maintained ships in the world, but they are useless if nobody wants to sail in them.

I'd be cool if we just promoted the idea of being a swashbuckling killer, that has the advantage of alcohol consumption on breaks

 

[daftandbarmy]

According to the new CANFORGEN it looks like we won't be sending another team to the Nijmegen March till 2026 in order to focus on reconstitution.

I'm sure the international aspect adds significantly to the logistical issues, but knowing many people who have participated, I know that there is significant training value. Now I understand it could be slightly more disruptive to the training cycle than in the Militia.

It's easier than asking senior leaders to eschew their $40 glasses of morning OJ

 

[MJP]

According to the new CANFORGEN it looks like we won't be sending another team to the Nijmegen March till 2026 in order to focus on reconstitution.

I'm sure the international aspect adds significantly to the logistical issues, but knowing many people who have participated, I know that there is significant training value. Now I understand it could be slightly more disruptive to the training cycle than in the Militia.

The international aspect has some challenges and takes up some resources but probably isn't the main focus of what they want to achieve with the pause. Most of the resource draw is on getting the various teams across the CAF ready to depart and much of that draw is the time folks spend not doing their primary roles. There are also support aspects for each team that play into it but that generally isn't too difficult as long as the team approaches the training plan with common sense and no grand leader wants the moon for their team.

 

[Kirkhill]

At least parts of the RCAF are reconstituting.

RCAF declines to participate in massive military wargame in Europe

Germany extended invitation to this month’s Air Defender 23 exercise but airfleet ‘modernization’ efforts caused Canada to decline

www.theglobeandmail.com

Business as usual? Or a bit of a refresh going on?

29.08.2023

RCAF to Participate for the First Time in Multinational Exercise with UK​

Image: An RCAF CF-18 Hornet on Operation REASSURANCE Air Task Force - Romania on December 1 2022 Credit: Avery Philpott
Aircraft and personnel from the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) will participate for the first time in Exercise COBRA WARRIOR 23-2, a Royal Air Force hosted multinational live-fly exercise held at Royal Air Force (RAF) station Waddington in the United Kingdom, from September 4 to 22, 2023.
The RCAF’s participation in Ex COBRA WARRIOR 23-2 includes seven CF-188 Hornets from 433 Tactical Fighter Squadron, one CC-150T Polaris from 437 Transport Squadron and more than 140 RCAF personnel.
Exercise COBRA WARRIOR provides an invaluable opportunity for international allies and partners to train together in developing operational tactics in the air. Australia, as well as our NATO allies; the United Kingdom, the United States, and Italy will be participating in this multinational exercise.
The exercise will further develop the RCAF’s abilities to operate in high intensity, large force, tactical air war-fighting operations, while enhancing its proven capability to operate in European airspace.
“Ensuring the readiness of the Royal Canadian Air Force to counter air threats is one of our most important responsibilities. Exercises like COBRA WARRIOR provide highly valuable training not only for our members, but also those of our allies and partners, to practice working together in a wide variety of tactical combat scenarios that they could face on real world operations.” Lieutenant-General Eric Kenny, Commander Royal Canadian Air Force
“Recognizing the current world security environment, this training is of particular importance for the Royal Canadian Air Force as we strive to safeguard North American airspace. Exercise COBRA WARRIOR will strengthen the interoperability between the participants and build on strong relationships with participating allied and partner-nation Air Forces.” Major-General Iain Huddleston, Commander 1 Canadian Air Division

ADDITIONAL INFO
• The RCAF will be taking part in developing interoperability with allies and partners by exercising composite air operations in a contested, degraded and operationally limited environment.
• The Royal Canadian Air Force aircraft will be operating from Royal Air Force Station Waddington and Royal Air Force Station Lossiemouth.
• Four RCAF Air battle managers will be taking part in the exercise from RAF Boulmer. RCAF Air battle managers will provide Command and Control capabilities to enable simulated air combat.
• Exercise COBRA WARRIOR is the largest exercise organized by the Royal Air Force and is a biannual training exercise to provide participants with high intensity large force tactical training.
• Exercise COBRA WARRIOR brings different partner nation platforms together, providing crews an opportunity to learn how to integrate and enhance interoperability. Participating nations also fulfill leadership roles and are involved in mission planning