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Question of the Hour

The Answer:

as foresterab indicated due to shortages in strategic minerals the Germans were forced to substitute steel cartridges for brass. In order to prevent the steel cartridges from rusting and other wise decaying a thin film of lacquer was applied to each. The majority of small arms could deal adequately with either brass or steel catridges but the melting lacquer from the heat of the gun firing was a different story. The lacquer would flow into various sub assemblies and cause the gun to jam. This ranged from the breach to the feed mechanisms. The only way to cure the problem was to wait for the gun to cool and then chip away at the hardened build up. Vetran machine gunners carried a personal 'stash' of 300 rounds of brass cartridges for when automatic fire was needed.

Source:
LeTessier, Tony. With Our backs to Berlin London, Sutton Publishing: May 1, 2001
 
redleafjumper said:
What was "Nelson's Bridge"?

Battle of Cap St Vincent, 1770. Nelson leaves the Sir John Jervis's fleet and heads off the Spanish Fleet attempting to seek safe refuge in Cadiz. Nelson attacked two ships, boarded the first ( I believe it was the San Nicholas) then continuing to lead the boarding party stormed aboard the San Jose. One of the two was a triple decker and Nelson as Flag rank was not supposed to led a mere boarding party. When reports surfaced in London this method was described as "Nelson's Bridge".

Source: the grey matter of an old dinosaur and I think one of my students did a project on it a year or two back. ;D
 
Darn good 3rd herd.  Commodore Nelson left his ship, HMS Captain, took the San Nicolas (80 guns), and crossed her deck to board the San Josef (112 guns).  That's quite the bridge, and an unusual action as Flag officers weren't generally expected to be leading mere boarding parties.
 
Tarleton's quarter?...war of Independance...

There are no quarters. AKA take no prisonners
(source.... memory + / - )
 
I know its referenced in the movie "the Patriot"....but that's not the whole answer.

Any american war of independence buffs got the answer?
 
It Refers to brigade major Banastre Tarleton's involvment in the Waxhaw massacre where many Virginian troops were killed. It became a rallying cry for anti-British American
("Tarleton's quarter" and "no quarter") similar to remember the Alamo.
 
What was the first action in ww2 by members of the Canadian Army which led to the DSO and DCM being awarded and which to soldiers recieved these medals?
 
FascistLibertarian said:
It Refers to brigade major Banastre Tarleton's involvement in the Waxhaw massacre where many Virginian troops were killed. It became a rallying cry for anti-British American
("Tarleton's quarter" and "no quarter") similar to remember the Alamo.

If you want to play in our court please cite a source when you answer. It can be grey matter(personal knowledge) or provide the web site, text journal etc. Sometimes the source is more important than the answer. It also helps to keep this thread a cut above others.  Since you are new to the site you also might want to check out the new member information, FAQs etc. ;D

My source for question was Aspery, Robert. War in the Shadows, Vol 1. pg. 104

"Close to the North Carloina boarder, Tarleton caught up with a detachment of Virgina Infantry, who surrendered to him. British troops conducted a wholesale slaughter, shooting or stabbing 113 of the defenceless men to death and leaving another 150 bleeding to death before marching off with 53 prisoners. To Carolina backwoodsmen, the senseless act became known as 'Tarleton's Quarter'.
 
Sorry I meant no disrespect :)
I frist learned about Tarleton through the movie the Patriot.  I was intrested so I looked into the history behind it.  I have read some stuff on it in various places.

BANASTRE TARLETON by Janie B. Cheaney who has her www.jbcheaney.com/ website is one intresting essay which i wont post bc of copyright
jrshelby.com/kimocowp/tarlton.htm

I also looked at Wikipedia before I posted to brush up, the revolutionary war is something I have not looked at since 1st year of university...... (such is being Canadian)

You guys do not have to answer my question if someone wants to post another :P

cheers
 
3rd Herd said:
This is a back assward question of the hour. It is something I am poking into and it is getting a tad difficult. So with your kind assistance folks here we go:

What type and capabilities did the Red Banner Fleet have on the Pacific coast in regards to submarines in the 1930-1945 era?

This is what i have come up with to date. I have no reference, however I could probably arraing tio have you correspond with the chap...he's in europe somewhere....

.....Pacific Fleet was awarded with Red Banner order only in 1965. It was called as Sea Forces of Far East [MSDV] till 11.01.1935, and then as Pacific Fleet [TOF].
USSR established diplomatic relations with Japan in 1925 and obliged not to use submarines in Pacific. So when Soviet submarine fleet was established in Far East in 1932, that was done in great secret [small submarines were transported by railroad in one piece, medium submarines were transported by railroad in parts as "agricultural technique"; they assembled in the most far part of Vladivostok harbor; it was strictly prohibited for crewmembers to use any submarine insignia; some submarines were masked as small civil steamers even]. Soviet submarines patrolled waters unofficially, but Japanese knew about them and their destroyers even tried to torpedoed Soviet submarines two times [unsuccessfully]. In 1935 the period of peaceful treaty [signed after Russian-Japanese war in 1905] was expired, and Soviet submarines became official.

Before WWII Japan was considered as the enemy No. 1 for USSR, so TOF submarines participated in all-year active patrols regardless weather conditions, including under-ice navigations and 2.5 days underwater navigations [Shch-103 in 1935]. Some submarines performed 40-102 days navigations instead of usual 20 days, even self-made snorkels were used in 1930s already. TOF submarines performed defense of transports and warships, and active patrols during Soviet-Japanese conflicts in 1938-1939 [Shch-102 stopped Japanese fishing vessel in 1938 as Soviet captain noticed something strange, it was found that in reality Japanese "fishmen" laid mines].

When WWII began TOF had the largest amount of submarines among all other Soviet fleets - 91 submarines, and TOF submariners were much more experienced also. During the whole WWII all TOF submarines participated in active patrols and laid mines to protect Vladivostok from possible Japanese attack [Japanese didn't attack USSR in 1941, but those mines caused a lot of troubles to Soviet ships as hundreds of mines were broken by strong Pacific storms and spreaded all over the sea]. During the whole WWII Soviet submariners performed patrols and recon missions [most recon missions were made in Pacific by submarines not aircraft].

When Soviet-Japanese war began on 9th August 1945 - TOF had 78 submarines [1st, 2nd , 4th brigades, 2nd and 3rd separate divisions(squadrons)]. Submarine bases - Vladivostok, Sovgavan, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Nakhodka, harbor Ullis and harbor Vladimir. Japanese couldn't discover all participated "M" submariners. L-17 started the attack of Japanese mine-sweeper 09.08.1945 but dived because of Japanese patrol aircraft. 12.08.1945 Shch-112 discovered Japanese transport near Maoka and fired 3 torpedos [all missed], but Japanese patrol boat dropped 12 depth charges against submarine [unsuccessfully]. 14.08.1945 Shch-127 discovered Japanese warships [1 cruiser and 4 destroyers] which came to prevet Soviet landing in Korean port Seisin [Soviet HQ planned operation against Korean ports in the manner of "fast and easy Winter war" again and again in a great hurry and disorder, so small groups of landed mariners were attacked and stopped by "unexpected" for HQ Japanese troops; Soviet mariners trenched and hold their positions bravely as always but situation became more and more hard], so 2 submarines of "S"-type were sent to attack Japanese sea forces [and 10 more prepared to the raid]. Soon it was realized that both submarines had no time to intercept Japanese warships and the possible fate of bleeding 13th brigade of mariners became completelly black. But finally HQ began to work in the right way and it was decided to send the uncoded message about massive attack of Soviet torpedo bombers and submarines against Japanese warships [coded message asked not to perform any attacks because of absence of time for them]. Japanese believed and changed the course.

19.08.1945 Japanese submarines unsuccessfully attacked L-19 and Shch-122 near Hokkaido.
The commander of submarine brigade captain I rank A. Leonov planed and led the Soviet landing operation against South Sakhalin [Karafuto], this operations prepared much better as Leonov used recon data from his submarines mainly. Captain I rank Leonov personally led several very dangerous attacks of sailors and mariners against Japanese. Maoka port was taken and 21.08.1945 several "ShCh" submarines were moved there.
M-1 and M-5 transported fuel to Otomari [next target in Sakhalin] because of strong storm for transport ships.
During the important and hard operation against Kuril Islands submarines were used quite active - the whole 5th squadron of 1st brigade. Shch-105 performed long-range recon before operation, L-8 guarded transport ships with landing troops during operation.
One more submariner - commander of 2nd squadron Tripolsky received the order to lead airborn(!) landing troops in Port Arthur, and he done this perfect.
L-12 and L-19 [the best TOF submarine] were sent to patrol and recon area near port Rumoi as the invasion to Hokkaido was planned. L-19 was unsuccessfully attacked by Japanese submarine 19.08.1945 [10.38 am]. 18.08.1945 L-11 and L-18 took landing troops [120 marines with four 45mm guns], who had the order to perform demonstration landing far away from main landing near port Rumoi [Hokkaido], but during navigation the operation was rejected by HQ. L-11 went to Maoka under extremelly strong storm and landed troops there, L-18 returned back to base.

23.08.1945 all submarines received the order to stop attacks against Japanese ships, all submarines returned back till 31.08.
28 submarines participated in combat navigations in August 1945, patroling and rescueing waters in the Sea of Japan and Sea of Okhotsk. Submariners discovered enemy ships 13 times, performed 5 torpedo attacks [13 torpedoes], sank 4 Japanese ships. Two submarines [Shch-123 and L-19] were unsuccessfully attacked by Japanese submarines, and two [Shch-119 and L-12] were attacked by depth charges [unsuccessfully].

Missed torpedos:
13.08.1945 [10.12 am] Shch-119 missed 3 torpedos against transport [near port Maioka, S. Sakhalin]
22.08.1945 [05.18 am] L-12 missed 3 torpedos [port Rumoi area, Hokkaido]
Victories [all were achieved 21-22.08.1945]:
*21.08.1945 [04.15 pm] Shch-126 [captain-lieutenant Morozov] sank Japanese small seine-netter by artillery fire from 45mm gun [distance 7 cables, central area of Sea of Japan].
*22.08.1945 [10.57 am] L-13 sank Japanese steamer "Daito Maru" No. 57 by torpedo and artillry fire [Sea of Okhotsk, Hokkaido, near port Abasiri].
*22.08.1945 [11.42 am] L-12 [captain-lieutenant Shelgantsev] sank Japanese steamer 6 miles from Rumoi [3 torpedos missed, submarine attacked transport by artillery and Japanese answered by artillery fire also; 3 more torpedos were fired and at least one hit the steamer]. That was, most probably, transport "Taito Maru" [5950 brt], evecuating Japanese civilians from Korea. The same day L-12 met new transport, escorted by patrol ship and 6 patrol boats, which dropped depth charges and lightly damaged the submarine. L-12 dived at 40 m and stoped to attack transport.
*22.08.1945 [10.00 pm] L-19 [captain 3rd rank Kononenko] sank Japanese cable-laying ship/transport "Tetsugo Maru" [1403 brt] south to Rumoi by artillery fire [cape Bashinotoro, Hokkaido] and met convoy the same day [probably, torpedoed also 8000 brt transport, which is not confirmed by several sources].

During WWII Pacific Fleet had

1. 40 small submarines of "M"-type [series VI, VI-bis, XII]. Three of them participated in the first world's under-ice group navigation in December 1940. Four were transported from Baltic Sea Fleet to Pacific Fleet in August 1939 by railroad, four - from Black Sea Fleet in 1939-40 by railroad also. Ten were transported to Black Sea Fleet in June-August 1944 by railroad.
M-49 was lost between 10-16.08.1941 during patrol [near Vladivostok, Posiet Bay, Sea of Japan], most probably - exploded on mine from Soviet mine field.
M-63 was lost the same time/place [between 10-17.08.1941, Posiet Bay] and because of the same reason - Soviet mine field.

2. 39 medium submarines of "Shch"-type [series V, V-bis, V-bis-2, X, X-bis]. One was transferred from North Fleet in autumn 1940 [navigation along the North sea route]. One was reequipped into underwater mine-layer in 1942. Three were modernized in 1940-42.
Shch-103 "Carp" washed ashore during strong storm [Ussuriisk Bay], was heavily damaged and half-sank 04.11.1935; was raised 28.03.1936 and towed to Vladivostok, scraped.
Shch-118 "Mullet" was heavily damaged [6 crewmembers were killed] during torpedo explosions on Shch-138 nearby [remained off Nikolaevsk-na-Amure harbor] 18.07.1942, submarine half-sank but was raised and repaired soon.
Shch-130 sank after collision with Shch-128 31.08.1943 [America Bay] (2 crewmembers of Shch-130 couldn't be saved in damaged and flooded with fuel and water compartment by divers, they courageously died in 5 hours because of absence of air but asked before death by telephone to accept them as communists), submarine was raised in two days and repaired soon.
Shch-138 exploded in Nikolaevsk-na-Amure harbor 18.07.1942 [four own torpedoes exploded because of possible Japanese diversion, 34 crewmembers were killed], submarine was raised immediately and sank during tow because of strong storm next day, was raised again 11.07.1943 and scraped later.
Shch-139 sank 25.04.1945 [North Bay] because of own torpedo explosion, was raised 07.05.1945 and repaired.

3. 6 medium submarines of "S"-type [series IX-bis]. Four were transferred to North Fleet in 1942 through Panama Canal and under very stormy conditions [Germans knew about these navigation of four Soviet submarines and tried to sink them several times during that 17000 miles navigation, but unsuccessfully (four "S" avoided near 10 torpedos), but German radio claimed the losses of Soviet submarines several times]. Those submarines achieved successes in North Fleet, but I have no time to describe this.

4. 13 large submarines-minelayers of "L"-type [series XI, XIII]. One was transferred to North Fleet in 1942 [navigation through Panama Canal, repair in Iceland and Scotland].
L-16 was torpedoed [all crewmembers were lost] by Japanese submarine I-25 as possible US submarine [800 miles north-west from San Francisco] 11.10.1942 during its transfer with L-15 to North Fleet through Panama Canal. Artillerymen of L-15 fired five 45mm shells against visible enemy periscope and received a message from exploded L-16 "we are dying because.....". Another version [also very possible] - that L-16 was torpedoed by 2 torpedos [3rd torpedo missed] from US submarine S-31 by mistake.
L-19 exploded on Japanese mine 23.08.1945 [La Perouse Strait, on the way to Otomari, last radio message from board: "Began to overcome mine field..."] - the last submarine, lost during WWII.

Laurence - a dozen of beer bottles from you as I am very tired to find, translate and post the info according to your request from 22.00 till 04.00..................  Only 2.5 hours for sleep this night.......What I could find concerning the subject.......

Regards, BP....


Hope this helps some. :salute:
 
my short attention span does not allow me to read all that ........want to go ride bikes
 
exspy said:
Mr 3rd,

May we have the next question please?

I believe FascistLibertarian had the last unanswered question.

"What was the first action in ww2 by members of the Canadian Army which led to the DSO and DCM being awarded and which to soldiers recieved these medals?"

As this is out of my normal lane I have so far found the first MC.

Here is the MC

There have been some cases of decorations being won by Canadian officers
serving with British forces. One case which has come to notice is that of
Capt. (now Major) R.J. Williams, formerly of R. Regt. C., and now of the
R.C.A.S.C., who won the Military Cross during the operations in Norway in 1940
while serving with the R.A.S.C. (Preliminary Narrative, the History of the
Canadian Military Forces Overseas, 1939-40, Chap IV, and of, Overseas Routine
Order 353, dated 7 Oct 40). This appears to have been the first M.C. won by a
Canadian officer in this war, although the recipient was not at the time in
the Dominion's service.

Source:http://www.mdn.ca/dhh/downloads/cmhq/cmhq112.pdf

 
Here is a hint/clarification
The action occured after the fall of france but before Dieppe however the DCM and DSO were not awarded until AFTER the end of ww2.

As a sidenote no Canadian Army personel in France got the DSO or the DCM but the 1st MM went to Sapper F.P. Hutchinson, 1st Field Company RCE, he was left behind in France and made his way back to England.
Stacey Six Years of War Vol I pp 284

oh and I dont think the answer is in stacey..... (it might be but its not where I got my information from)
 
Is this the DCM ?:

"then Sergeant R.J. (Ron) Routledge, DCM captured at Hong Kong, who was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal for his role as liaison between senior allied officers and allied agents who were organizing mass escapes of prisoners of war in the Chungking, China region.  Apprehended by the Japanese, he refused to divulge the names of colleagues despite severe torture, starvation and beatings"
http://www.commelec.forces.gc.ca/organization/history/branch/chap5_e.asp

OR

STANDISH, Colin Alden, Company Quartermaster-Sergeant, DCM (E.29812)
Royal Rifles of Canada

HONG KONG AWARD

Canada Gazette dated 6 April 1946 (No. 14, Vol. 80, p. 2066) and CARO/6522 dated 18 April 1946.

Company Quartermaster-Sergeant Standish was Company Quartermaster-Sergeant of "C" Company, Royal Rifles of Canada at Hong Kong in December 1941.

During the night of 18/19 December at Lye Mun Gap he showed conspicuous bravery in maintaining a constant supply of ammunition to the forward positions of this company which were heavily engaged with the enemy, During the course of his duties he came under extremely heavy mortar and rifle fire. His vehicle received a direct hit during the course 0/the action, but despite this, he made necessary repairs under fire to maintain his supply. In an endeavour to cut the supply line, the enemy had infiltrated behind our lines, submitting supply personnel to heavy and constant sniping fire. This did not stop Standish from travelling back and forth over this dangerous ground to keep forward positions supplied. During intervals of unloading vehicles in the forward area, Standish took an active part in the action. His conduct was an inspiration to all ranks, and due to his gallantry and efforts it was possible to hold this position until the order arrived to withdraw.

This non-commissioned officer never relaxed in his duty, and was conspicuous in his bravery during the entire campaign in securing and delivering food, water and other supplies to the outposts under fire and against heavy odds. At times when transport was not available he carried rations on his back, taking time off to hunt snipers who were a constant threat to all personnel. During the whole period as a prisoner of war he carried on with the same spirit of self-sacrifice, and although quite ill, he always saw that his men received all that was available to reduce the misery of Japanese camp life. (http://www.hkvca.ca/historical/Honours/dcm/standish.htm)



DSO:

BISHOP, Wells Arnold, Major, DSO ED
Royal Rifles of Canada

Canada Gazette dated 6 April 1946 (No. 14, Vol. 80, p. 2066) and CARO/6522 dated 18 April 1946.

Major Major Bishop commanded "C" Company, the Royal Rifles of Canada at Hong Kong in December 1941.

At about 1930 hours, 18 December, the Japanese landed at Sau Ki Wan, Hong Kong, where positions were held by the 5/7 Rajput Regiment on the left flank of "C" Company positions in Lye Mun Gap. The enemy quickly infiltrated through this line and attempted in considerable force to penetrate through Lye Mun Gap towards Brigade and Battalion Headquarters at Tai Tam Gap.

Major Bishop, with great skill, so maneuvered his force that, although heavily outnumbered and forced to retire slowly, he was able to prevent the enemy penetrating into Tai Tam Gap and saved the situation from turning into a complete disaster.

During this action Major Bishop personally covered the retirement of his force, and his courage, skill and devotion to duty so inspired his men that they were able to cope with enormously superior forces until reinforcements became available to assist him. During the entire period of battle this officer continued to display conspicuous qualities of bravery and leadership and to inspire not only his own men but all ranks in the East Brigade sector and contributed greatly to the maintenance of the high morale necessary to sustain a continuous defence against increasingly overwhelming odds in an obviously hopeless situation.

During captivity Major Bishop continued to display outstanding qualities of unselfishness, resolution and fortitude. He participated in all activities essential to the maintenance of health and morale, and contributed in a conspicuous manner in every way. This officer acted continuously in such a manner as to uphold the highest traditions of the service.(http://www.hkvca.ca/historical/Honours/bishop.htm)

or

HODKINSON, Ernest, Major, DSO
The Winnipeg Grenadiers

Canada Gazette dated 6 April 1946 (No. 14, Vol. 80, p. 2066) and CARO/6522 dated 18 April 1946.

Major Hodkinson commanded Headquarters Company, the Winnipeg Grenadiers at Hong Kong in December 1941.

On 19 December his commanding officer ordered him to take a composite company consisting of three platoons to relieve "D" Company at Wong Nei Chong, clear the area of enemy and attack Wong Nei Chong police station, a Japanese strong point.

After overcoming enemy resistance, Major Hodkinson succeeded in reaching "D" Company Headquarters, and after reorganizing the company, proceeded with a patrol through the Japanese lines on a reconnaissance of the police station. Enroute, Major Hodkinson and his patrol successfully annihilated a Japanese section controlling a road block and removed it. Returning, he prepared his plan of attack on the police station which provided for a frontal assault in which he was to take part with a small patrol. This was to precede a major flanking attack by the remainder of the company. This plan was then put into effect, but was defeated by a superior enemy force estimated at one battalion. While unsuccessful in dislodging the enemy from the police station, Major Hodkinson and his patrol were successful in drawing the enemy 's attention which permitted the remainder of his company to advance to its limit line. During this assault, Major Hodkinson was seriously wounded and all the members of his patrol were casualties. By this daring and well planned attack Major Hodkinson succeeded in a portion of his task by moving his company into a useful vantage point, inflicting many casualties and demoralized the enemy. Only greatly superior numbers prevented this attack being a complete success.
(http://www.hkvca.ca/historical/Honours/hodkinson.htm)

Note: There were two more DCMs awarded to Canadians who fought in Hong Kong but their awards were based on actions after capture in 1944.









 
Yeah Standish was the DCM and Bishop was the DSO
the actionw as at Lye Mun (sp?) in the North East section of Hong Kong Island

Here is the text of a plaque Canada put up recently in Hong Kong
“This plaque is dedicated to all members of the Royal Rifles of Canada. Near this site, on the night of December 18, 1941, invading Japanese forces were engaged by "C" Company, Royal Rifles of Canada, commanded by Major Wells Bishop. Fierce attacks had earlier silenced the artillery batteries and anti-aircraft guns. Counterattacks ensued, and after inflicting heavy casualties on the numerically superior invading force, the Canadians were forced to retire rather than allow themselves to become encircled. Major Bishop was awarded the Distinguished Service Order for his bravery in this action.”

Before their engagement the company had 5 Of and 172 OR's
the next day they had 4 Of and 63 OR's at roll :(
(C Company Diary Dec 19/41)
I have no idea about how many of the others were killed/wounded/captured

Bishop was a ww1 vet and probably the reason his company did not fall apart.
 
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