Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled

[Roy Harding]

I instruct first aid on a regular monthly basis, but I am not a school teacher or professor. When I am working with new instructors, I have to mention to them to mark in a colour other than red. The reasoning is the student's reaction to seeing too much red on their test. In practice I use the first marker I find, but then I do not carry too many red markers.

When I joined as an 841, I was informed green ink was for financial forms. A number of years later, we had one officer who was notorious for always signing anything in green ink.

(Emphasis added).

Green ink is for auditor's annotations.  Sheesh - even us 831's knew that! 

 

[ex-Sup]

I had a math teacher in high school whose classes had a 70% failure rate.  Of course, it wasn't his fault.  He was gone the next year.  I went from a 37% one year to a 74% the next year.  Same school, same material, different teacher.

There are always exceptions. Just like the rest of society, there are good and bad in the teaching profession. I'd like to think I fall into the former category.

 

[PMedMoe]

There are always exceptions. Just like the rest of society, there are good and bad in the teaching profession. I'd like to think I fall into the former category.

I'm sure you do.  Actually, he was the only bad teacher I had.  He knew the work, he just couldn't teach it.  I think his first love was physics so probably didn't like teaching regular math.  When he left, he went back to university, not to teach. 

 

[ex-Sup]

He knew the work, he just couldn't teach it.  I think his first love was physics so probably didn't like teaching regular math.

I had a math teacher like that. Brilliant man, likeable, some of my peers loved him, but he was too smart. He couldn't understand that some people (like me) cannot comprehend algebra. I guess that's why I try to explain things is the simpliest form I can and try to relate it to real life. I know there's not too many complicated things in history, but there are things that come up with regard to politics, money, technology, etc. Hopefully it works...if ratemyteacher.com is any indication I'm okay. I even get through to the potheads!

 

[kratz]

I laughed when I read this headline at CTV.ca. This is something that we have been discussing for awhile now.

Students not prepared for university, says survey
Updated Mon. Sep. 21 2009 6:36 AM ET

The Canadian Press

TORONTO -- Students and professors say high schools don't adequately prepare teens for one of the most stressful transition periods they will face -- their first year of university.

About one in six students who enter university don't complete the transition and finish their schooling.

About 14 per cent of first-year students drop out, according to a report that analyzed data from Statistics Canada's Youth in Transition Survey.

The overall post-secondary dropout rate was about 16 per cent, suggesting that those who are going to drop out, do so early on.

Survey results from the students who left school suggest they were already struggling with meeting deadlines, academic performance and study behaviour in their first year.

Danielle Shaienks, a senior analyst at Statistics Canada, says consequently, more of them thought about leaving in their first year.

 

[Antoine]

Student: So when do I start the lab?
Me: What is written on your schedule that you are holding in your hand?
Student: Next Friday.
Me: Thus, it is next Friday.

Me lecturing:
We are expecting you to come prepared for the lab, prepared means that you have read your lab book, did your homework and have an idea about the experiment your are going to perform. We will be happy to help you and answer your questions but we will not doing the lab for you neither your homework. If you don't like it, please, don't loose your time and money, it is still time to withdraw from the course.

Students:
Nothing, I can hear a fly flying!, some are sleeping, some are counting the number of cracks on the wall, and others are looking at me as I was a monster, could be my french look or accent !

Then they have questions for me, they didn't listen to me, neither read their lab book about check-in day!

Yes, each year is the same, but sometime, I feel it is getting worst. Must be me starting to be an old grumpy man.

However, by being positive and encouraging them, their confidence build up and I can see a huge improvement at the end of the term, so there is hope, always!

 

[kratz]

I know this thread is dated, but today's CTV.ca report of a teacher in the USA, suspended for comments in her BLOG, calling out her students for being "disengaged, lazy whiners". I knew we had discussed similar sentiments in this thread and felt this would be the appropriate place to post.

"My students are out of control," Munroe, who has taught 10th, 11th and 12th grades, wrote in one post. "They are rude, disengaged, lazy whiners. They curse, discuss drugs, talk back, argue for grades, complain about everything, fancy themselves entitled to whatever they desire, and are just generally annoying."

And in another post, Munroe -- who is more than eight months pregnant -- quotes from the musical "Bye Bye Birdie": "Kids! They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs. Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy LOAFERS."

She also listed some comments she wished she could post on student evaluations, including: "I hear the trash company is hiring"; "I called out sick a couple of days just to avoid your son"; and "Just as bad as his sibling. Don't you know how to raise kids?"

Munroe did not use her full name or identify her students or school in the blog, which she started in August 2009 for friends and family. Last week, she said, students brought it to the attention of the school, which suspended her with pay.

"They get angry when you ask them to think or be creative," Munroe said of her students in an interview with The Associated Press on Tuesday. "The students are not being held accountable."

more at link

 

[Container]

I know this thread is dated, but today's CTV.ca report of a teacher in the USA, suspended for comments in her BLOG, calling out her students for being "disengaged, lazy whiners". I knew we had discussed similar sentiments in this thread and felt this would be the appropriate place to post.


more at link

While I understand concerns about what shes saying. It kinda underlines her reason for saying it when she gets suspended by the "hurt feelings brigade". The things I have seen done to school teachers by students make these sentiments the low end of the spectrum. Its an example of the inmates running the asylum.

Im not particularly fond of most teachers I come in to contact with- indifferent is a better way to put it. Police and teachers have a strange relationship in my experience. But my god have they got my sympathy. And the ones that are actually pushing back get shown the door pretty quick.

 

[kratz]

This is a recourring theme as well. What motivation is there for students to do any work if they can not fail?

Shared from CBC Edmonton

Edmonton teacher suspended for giving 0s

CBC News
Posted: May 31, 2012 10:22 AM MT  Last Updated: May 31, 2012 8:27 PM MT

An Edmonton high school teacher says he has been suspended for giving students zeros on uncompleted assignments or exams.

Lynden Dorval, a physics teacher at Ross Sheppard High School, has been giving the mark for work that wasn't handed in or tests not taken even though it goes against the school's "no-zero" policy.

The thinking behind the policy is that failing to complete assignments is a behavioural issue and marks should reflect ability, not behaviour.

Dorval said he couldn't in good conscience comply with the rule.

"I just didn't have a choice," he said. "I just couldn't not do it. I tried to talk myself out of it many times, but it was just something so important to me, I just had to go through with it."

The policy was adopted by the school 1½ years ago, Dorval said.

More story at link

 

[Danjanou]

.... her students for being "disengaged, lazy whiners".

....Oops thought I was in the recruiting threads for a minute. 8)

 

[ttlbmg]

I am a teacher, and while I do understand where the "no zero" policy came from, it makes little sense to me. I taught at the grades 7-12 level, and many students that didn't "feel" like doing an assignment knew that they could skip their homework, and it had little to no effect on their grade. For many students, they knew that there was little consequence to their lack of effort in school. However, the idea behind it, I believe, is that a student's mark should be performance based only, and not reflective of their behaviour.

I am not sure that the "no zero" policy really helps the student, or simply coddles the student more. I have found in my teaching experience that many kids today do feel this sense of entitlement, and that they believe that the goal of a teacher is to entertain them, rather than educate them. I'm sure the repercussions of this are being felt at the post secondary level. I think that in a few years, the pendulum will start to swing back the other way in terms of education; it seems it always does.

 

[Dkeh]

I think the No 0 policy is fundamentally flawed. School is designed to teach students the skills they need in real life- what happens if you don't hand in a work report, because you didn't feel like doing it? Your boss will fire your ass.

Cause and effect is one of the primary driving factors in a persons life- "If I work really hard, I will be rewarded", Vs. "If I don't do any of my work, there are no repercussions. Why should I put in any effort?"

 

[kratz]

Has anyone made the mistake of reading the comments after the story? CBC has posted some of the student reaction to the report:

Student reaction to suspension

"He shouldn't even be teaching anymore. If he wants to hand out zeros, he should be doing some other job — not a teacher."

—Ryan Grouette, Grade 10

"If students show up they deserve a minimum mark. A zero seems a bit extreme."

—Cindy Smith, Grade 11

"I think he should be allowed to teach. He's a good teacher from what I hear."

—Cassandra Gregory, Grade 12

This is the workforce of the next generation, who will be caring for the retired Baby Boomers.
"You ae lucky I simply showed up for work, now pay me."  :

 

[Journeyman]

While the logic may not be outstanding, at least those comments are literate.  :nod:

 

[PuckChaser]

He should give them 1 point. That way, its not a zero.

 

[ttlbmg]

You are not allowed to do that either. It becomes quite obvious when the student has numerous marks of 1, but not a single INC or NHI. What surprised me in the article, was that parents may not be aware of this policy. That comment makes me want to write a list of questions for my child's teacher, and add, "what is your current assessment policy?" to it.

Although, that's the question I would like to pose. If a student is completing a course (ex. math) does giving him or her a zero because they did not complete an assignment assess what they know or do not know, or does it only assess behaviour? And, to follow that, should teachers be assessing student behaviour and including that in their grades?

 

[Strike]

You are not allowed to do that either. It becomes quite obvious when the student has numerous marks of 1, but not a single INC or NHI. What surprised me in the article, was that parents may not be aware of this policy. That comment makes me want to write a list of questions for my child's teacher, and add, "what is your current assessment policy?" to it.

Although, that's the question I would like to pose. If a student is completing a course (ex. math) does giving him or her a zero because they did not complete an assignment assess what they know or do not know, or does it only assess behaviour? And, to follow that, should teachers be assessing student behaviour and including that in their grades?

Assessing a mark of zero does not equate to assessing behaviour.  It says that, in the specific subject at hand that we are studying (let's say graphing in the larger picture of calculus) you have not handed anything in so I cannot properly assess HOW you are doing, so you get a zero.  In the one assignment on Pythagorean theory, you may have received 80%, but the whole course is not based on that topic, so I can't give you that grade for the course.

 

[PuckChaser]

The policy also says the teacher should be assessing ability: Well, the student didn't hand anything in, therefore their ability to complete said subject is 0. Next, we'll have the students that got a 50% on an assignment they didn't hand in complaining that the mark was too low because the teacher doesn't like them.  :

 

[Danjanou]

Assessing a mark of zero does not equate to assessing behaviour.  It says that, in the specific subject at hand that we are studying (let's say graphing in the larger picture of calculus) you have not handed anything in so I cannot properly assess HOW you are doing, so you get a zero.  In the one assignment on Pythagorean theory, you may have received 80%, but the whole course is not based on that topic, so I can't give you that grade for the course.

There you go again trying to apply logic and common sense to the Noth American Education System, silly rabbit.  8)

While the logic may not be outstanding, at least those comments are literate.  :nod:

Yeah that should turn things around. :

Has anyone made the mistake of reading the comments after the story? CBC has posted some of the student reaction to the report:

This is the workforce of the next generation, who will be caring for the retired Baby Boomers.
"You ae lucky I simply showed up for work, now pay me."  :

Hmm sounds like time for plan B, drink myself to an early grave. 8)

 

[Journeyman]

While the logic may not be outstanding, at least those comments are literate.

Yeah that should turn things around. :

Hey, baby steps.

With some of the incoherent, run-on babble in the Recruting threads, I often can't determine if there is a point or a question, let alone try to understand. Those kids are on the right path at least.