Profs say students lack maturity, feel entitled
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George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act
B.C. university introduces grade worse than F (Link in title)
12/08/2009 7:57:11 PM
It used to be that the worst grade you could receive in school was an F, and that was bad enough.
Darcy Wintonyk
But B.C.'s Simon Fraser University is taking punishment to a whole new level, introducing a grade of FD -- meaning failure with dishonesty -- the worst possible grade a student can receive.
Dr. Rob Gordon, director of criminology at SFU and acting chair of the senate committee on academic integrity, says the new grading is intended to curtail cheating using the internet.
"What used to be a lot of cheating in libraries has changed quite significantly," he told ctvbc.ca.
"We now have to be concerned about cheating during exams with high-tech devices and the inappropriate use of internet sources and downloading, including online companies offering services to students that promote academic dishonesty."
University department chairs can impose the FD grade if they feel the incident warrants a severe penalty, or if the student has landed themselves in academic hot water in the past.
"They only use this grade in particularly egregious cases of dishonestly or in cases when they've committed acts of dishonesty several times and haven't learned from their lesson," Gordon said.
The mark, which has yet to be used in its introductory semester, will stay on the student's transcripts for two years after graduation.
"It's more than a fail, it's a failure with a particular reason that is publicly announced that may well be seen by potential employers."
Some students say it's unfair to carry that stigma into the working world.
"Two years loss of your life that is a bit too far," Olid Amid said.
But although some consider the new grading heavy handed, others say the punishment is just in a time where internet cheating is increasing at Canadian post-secondary institutions.
"A student would seriously need to re-evaluate their intentions at university and what they are hoping to get out of it," University of Alberta student Patrice Strate said.
"It makes it a lot easier for those of us who don't cheat to get good grades and to not worry about the people who are cheating," student John Aubrey said.
The University of Alberta uses a similar system where cheaters are given an F8 or F9 grade, which is reduced to an F after three years.
"In our case we give the students a chance to redeem themselves," Dean of Students Frank Robinson said.
"[In] three years they can graduate and have a clean record and get on with life."
B.C. university introduces grade worse than F (Link in title)
12/08/2009 7:57:11 PM
It used to be that the worst grade you could receive in school was an F, and that was bad enough.
Darcy Wintonyk
But B.C.'s Simon Fraser University is taking punishment to a whole new level, introducing a grade of FD -- meaning failure with dishonesty -- the worst possible grade a student can receive.
Dr. Rob Gordon, director of criminology at SFU and acting chair of the senate committee on academic integrity, says the new grading is intended to curtail cheating using the internet.
"What used to be a lot of cheating in libraries has changed quite significantly," he told ctvbc.ca.
"We now have to be concerned about cheating during exams with high-tech devices and the inappropriate use of internet sources and downloading, including online companies offering services to students that promote academic dishonesty."
University department chairs can impose the FD grade if they feel the incident warrants a severe penalty, or if the student has landed themselves in academic hot water in the past.
"They only use this grade in particularly egregious cases of dishonestly or in cases when they've committed acts of dishonesty several times and haven't learned from their lesson," Gordon said.
The mark, which has yet to be used in its introductory semester, will stay on the student's transcripts for two years after graduation.
"It's more than a fail, it's a failure with a particular reason that is publicly announced that may well be seen by potential employers."
Some students say it's unfair to carry that stigma into the working world.
"Two years loss of your life that is a bit too far," Olid Amid said.
But although some consider the new grading heavy handed, others say the punishment is just in a time where internet cheating is increasing at Canadian post-secondary institutions.
"A student would seriously need to re-evaluate their intentions at university and what they are hoping to get out of it," University of Alberta student Patrice Strate said.
"It makes it a lot easier for those of us who don't cheat to get good grades and to not worry about the people who are cheating," student John Aubrey said.
The University of Alberta uses a similar system where cheaters are given an F8 or F9 grade, which is reduced to an F after three years.
"In our case we give the students a chance to redeem themselves," Dean of Students Frank Robinson said.
"[In] three years they can graduate and have a clean record and get on with life."
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Unfortunately I'd have to disagree with you here.gcclarke said:
Now I'm not claiming to be perfect here, but I had classes completely bomb tests ie. class average of 45%. The material has not changed (it's history), the evaluation (test) is pretty much the same (minor tweeks) and my presentation methods haven't been significantly altered (once again some minor changes). So when one class bombs a test that hasn't presented a problem in the past, I'd argue it's the kids. Now granted this happened with an applied class, and some of these kids are notorious for giving two sh@ts about academics.
Now I tend to my worst critic. I immediately start wondering what I did wrong, and how I could have done things differently. When I go through the above details I then realize that I’ve done my best to teach these students what is required. They are the ones who did not hand in the assignment, or study/complete the test review, etc. In 12 years I’ve realized that the bar must remain the same, otherwise you invite the creation an environment of mediocrity. I know some of my colleagues will move the bar, but I refuse to do that. I will make some allowance for kids who are struggling, but if I end up with a class of C’s, D’s and F’s because of my standards, so be it.
I guess the reverse situation also happens. I’ve had academic classes where the average for a test is 85% or better, and then I start to wonder if the test was too easy (or maybe I’m too good of a teacher
). But once again it comes down to meeting expectations. Obviously most of the kids studied and they knew the material (my tests tend to be pretty comprehensive) and communicated it in the proper fashion.Anyway, if this situation exists, then as I stated the onus falls to the student, not the teacher (in my experienced observation).
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I don't know how true it is, but someone told me that some teachers - and perhaps other instructors - now prefer to mark tests with green rather than red ink. It gives the students a more positive feeling about their work. Although an F is still an F.
B.C. university introduces grade worse than F
Updated: Wed Aug. 12 2009 19:01:13 Darcy Wintonyk, ctvbc.ca
Article Link
It used to be that the worst grade you could receive in school was an F, and that was bad enough.
But B.C.'s Simon Fraser University is taking punishment to a whole new level, introducing a grade of FD -- meaning failure with dishonesty -- the worst possible grade a student can receive.
Dr. Rob Gordon, director of criminology at SFU and acting chair of the senate committee on academic integrity, says the new grading is intended to curtail cheating using the internet.
"What used to be a lot of cheating in libraries has changed quite significantly," he told ctvbc.ca.
"We now have to be concerned about cheating during exams with high-tech devices and the inappropriate use of internet sources and downloading, including online companies offering services to students that promote academic dishonesty."
University department chairs can impose the FD grade if they feel the incident warrants a severe penalty, or if the student has landed themselves in academic hot water in the past.
"They only use this grade in particularly egregious cases of dishonestly or in cases when they've committed acts of dishonesty several times and haven't learned from their lesson," Gordon said.
The mark, which has yet to be used in its introductory semester, will stay on the student's transcripts for two years after graduation.
More on link
Updated: Wed Aug. 12 2009 19:01:13 Darcy Wintonyk, ctvbc.ca
Article Link
It used to be that the worst grade you could receive in school was an F, and that was bad enough.
But B.C.'s Simon Fraser University is taking punishment to a whole new level, introducing a grade of FD -- meaning failure with dishonesty -- the worst possible grade a student can receive.
Dr. Rob Gordon, director of criminology at SFU and acting chair of the senate committee on academic integrity, says the new grading is intended to curtail cheating using the internet.
"What used to be a lot of cheating in libraries has changed quite significantly," he told ctvbc.ca.
"We now have to be concerned about cheating during exams with high-tech devices and the inappropriate use of internet sources and downloading, including online companies offering services to students that promote academic dishonesty."
University department chairs can impose the FD grade if they feel the incident warrants a severe penalty, or if the student has landed themselves in academic hot water in the past.
"They only use this grade in particularly egregious cases of dishonestly or in cases when they've committed acts of dishonesty several times and haven't learned from their lesson," Gordon said.
The mark, which has yet to be used in its introductory semester, will stay on the student's transcripts for two years after graduation.
More on link
- Reaction score
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The thinking is that the green stands out less than the red. If a student gets a piece of work returned with a ton of red marks all over it, he/she will see that and not the actual errors. It's very rare to see anything other than red being used however. meh, I just use whatever is closest.mariomike said:
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F@ck that! Gimme red!mariomike said:
Actually I use whatever I have on hand. I prefer gel pens to mark (especially for essays) and they usually come in multi-packs-blue, red, pink (yes, pink), etc. I think that the idea of green rather than red comes from some people's ideas not to hurt anyone's feeling. I call it the kindler, gentler approach (tongue in cheek of course). For example I coach football, and when people tell me that in the past they did this or that for conditioning or punishment, I tell them that things have changed. "This is the kindler, gentler football!" Wouldn't want to make anyone work too hard or make them feel bad.
Is there a kindler, gentler CF?
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Then again, everywhere I have worked in the CF, Green was reserved for the Comd. Perhaps this should equate to their mark being handed down "from the hands of God". ;D
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Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from CBC.ca
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/08/11/ottawa-090811-private-school-marks-ontario-wynne.html
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Private school grades to be flagged in Ont.
Ontario will start requiring high school credits and grades received from private schools to be flagged on student transcripts with the letter "P" starting this fall.
Education Minister Kathleen Wynne confirmed Tuesday that the move was in response to public concerns that some private schools were providing "easy marks" for a fee. Such fees can run up to $2,000 for a three-week summer Grade 12 English course.
Wynne said guidance councillors have long expressed concerns that up until now, there has been no way to track where students received their credits.
Wynne added that the province will start keeping a closer eye on private schools by:
Boosting the frequency of provincial inspections.
Monitoring schools that are underperforming.
Reinstating a requirement that private schools submit a notice containing details of student safety and achievement that will be posted online.
"We're trying to bring more transparency to this," Wynne said, adding that only a small minority of schools are at risk of not meeting provincial standards.
The government is also studying how to define a school and distinguish schools from tutoring services through criteria such as classroom hours.
There are 315 private schools in Ontario that offer credits toward an Ontario Secondary School Diploma, and must have passed inspection by the Ministry of Education in order to do so. However, the inspection does not deal with health, equipment, safety practices, or staffing issues.
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http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/08/11/ottawa-090811-private-school-marks-ontario-wynne.html
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Private school grades to be flagged in Ont.
Ontario will start requiring high school credits and grades received from private schools to be flagged on student transcripts with the letter "P" starting this fall.
Education Minister Kathleen Wynne confirmed Tuesday that the move was in response to public concerns that some private schools were providing "easy marks" for a fee. Such fees can run up to $2,000 for a three-week summer Grade 12 English course.
Wynne said guidance councillors have long expressed concerns that up until now, there has been no way to track where students received their credits.
Wynne added that the province will start keeping a closer eye on private schools by:
Boosting the frequency of provincial inspections.
Monitoring schools that are underperforming.
Reinstating a requirement that private schools submit a notice containing details of student safety and achievement that will be posted online.
"We're trying to bring more transparency to this," Wynne said, adding that only a small minority of schools are at risk of not meeting provincial standards.
The government is also studying how to define a school and distinguish schools from tutoring services through criteria such as classroom hours.
There are 315 private schools in Ontario that offer credits toward an Ontario Secondary School Diploma, and must have passed inspection by the Ministry of Education in order to do so. However, the inspection does not deal with health, equipment, safety practices, or staffing issues.
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MARS said:
Typical Bantario response to a problem. Instead of doing the legwork on the front end and instituting measure to hold people accountable, they emplace one of their touchy feely bogus plans to appease the vocal minority. How about just having a province wide curriculum and exams. One set of standards, one set of testing, one set of application of the rules. ALL schools public, private and separate have to teach the exact same stuff and write the exact same exam. The only thing that should be left to the school is the delivery. It'll be up to them whether it's delivered with a fire hose or quietly in the flower garden out back accompanied by the requisite harp music. Either way, the standard will have to be met.
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ex-Sup said:
Ok, mea culpa. My previous statement only stands when the class in question is composted of individuals who are making an effort, at least mostly. Had the same thing happened in your academic class, where presumably the majority of your students are both rather intelligent and are motivated to do well, then I would lay most of the blame on you. But it didn't, so you're fine in my books.
This type of situation seems to pop up much more frequently in a post-secondary setting. Professors getting stuck teaching classes that they'd rather not teach, as it detracts from their research time, can easily go bad.
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PMedMoe said:"Hey Mom, I failed a test today, but it's okay because the teacher used green ink!"
Good grief, what next? Psych counselling after little Johnny or Janey doesn't do well on a test? :
"Marking in red ink banned in case it upsets schoolchildren":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/3964683/Marking-in-red-ink-banned-in-case-it-upsets-schoolchildren.html
"Teachers who mark work in red pen could be inflicting psychological damage on their students, according to new guidelines":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3705070/Marking-in-red-pen-can-damage-students.html
CountDC
Army.ca Veteran
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ok recce go the back of the class for being too smart.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the teachers at the administrator/principal. My own experience with my son at his school was that the problem actually originated with the principal. unfortunately I didn't find this out until he was there for a few years. The school was supposed to have a no bullying policy but every time he was bullied they blamed him and his lack of ability to get along with the other kids. His problem was that he did what he was told by the principal in her welcome to school speech - "if some one picks on you, hits you or calls you names tell the teacher or me" He did, only thing happened was the kid picked on him more for squealing and the other kids joined in. He then decided to defend himself, hit back and they tried triple punishing him - not allow to participate in gym that day, no recess the next day and have to stay after school. The other kid that was trying to bully him got one punishment - no gym. Her mentality was that he was the worst in the case because he hit back. Makes sense to me - we have a no bullying policy we will not enforce but if you defend yourself we will nail you to the wall. There were other cases along the same and she always blamed the person getting bullied and made excuses for the one doing the bullying.
When she left the school the new principal was a hard liner on the policy and things changed drastically at the school. Didn't take long for the parents of the kids bullying to deal with their kids - he automatically gave one day suspension the first time, 3 day second. These people did not want their kids at home. He even called D9, stated he had read my sons file and talked to some staff. He apologized for the unfair treatment and ensured her it would not happen anymore. Last I heard the school was a much better place, some teachers were "transferred", some that were "poor" performers in the parents eyes blossomed into real good teachers and kids actually looked forward to going to school (except for the bullies).
Sometimes the problem is the leader.
Sometimes you have to look beyond the teachers at the administrator/principal. My own experience with my son at his school was that the problem actually originated with the principal. unfortunately I didn't find this out until he was there for a few years. The school was supposed to have a no bullying policy but every time he was bullied they blamed him and his lack of ability to get along with the other kids. His problem was that he did what he was told by the principal in her welcome to school speech - "if some one picks on you, hits you or calls you names tell the teacher or me" He did, only thing happened was the kid picked on him more for squealing and the other kids joined in. He then decided to defend himself, hit back and they tried triple punishing him - not allow to participate in gym that day, no recess the next day and have to stay after school. The other kid that was trying to bully him got one punishment - no gym. Her mentality was that he was the worst in the case because he hit back. Makes sense to me - we have a no bullying policy we will not enforce but if you defend yourself we will nail you to the wall. There were other cases along the same and she always blamed the person getting bullied and made excuses for the one doing the bullying.
When she left the school the new principal was a hard liner on the policy and things changed drastically at the school. Didn't take long for the parents of the kids bullying to deal with their kids - he automatically gave one day suspension the first time, 3 day second. These people did not want their kids at home. He even called D9, stated he had read my sons file and talked to some staff. He apologized for the unfair treatment and ensured her it would not happen anymore. Last I heard the school was a much better place, some teachers were "transferred", some that were "poor" performers in the parents eyes blossomed into real good teachers and kids actually looked forward to going to school (except for the bullies).
Sometimes the problem is the leader.
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I instruct first aid on a regular monthly basis, but I am not a school teacher or professor. When I am working with new instructors, I have to mention to them to mark in a colour other than red. The reasoning is the student's reaction to seeing too much red on their test. In practice I use the first marker I find, but then I do not carry too many red markers.
When I joined as an 841, I was informed green ink was for financial forms. A number of years later, we had one officer who was notorious for always signing anything in green ink.
When I joined as an 841, I was informed green ink was for financial forms. A number of years later, we had one officer who was notorious for always signing anything in green ink.
