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My beef with the uniform is that it only comes in two sizes --- too big and too small
Problems with CADPAT
- Thread starter redleafjumper
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career_radio-checker said:
Good one i agree it seems nothing fits just right
Matt_Fisher
Army.ca Veteran
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Another company making some really innovative stuff is Integrated Combat Equipment aka ICE Tactical out of Bowen Island, BC. Check out their website at www.icetactical.com for a few pics of their 'battle shirt' and combat pants.
What I'd have loved to seen done to the CF shirt would be to put on sleeve pockets and make the upper chest pockets larger, but accessible through the sides like the Crye Field Shirt so that when you're wearing armor, you can insert your hands through the arm holes on the ballistic vest and reach into your chest pockets.
Lower pockets are such a user preference that it's hard to say get rid of them, or keep them. Some people who tuck their trousers in, hate the lower pockets as they cause the shirt to get all bunched up, whereas other people who like to keep the shirt untucked, like the pockets for putting things like FMPs, maps, compasses, etc. in. Perhaps a comprimise might be found if the lower pockets were detachable through a lightweight MOLLE webbing setup, similar to that used on the Crye range vest? A removable lower pocket could be something along the lines of the Emdom Small Utili-Shingle. http://stores.skipjack.com/emdomusa/Detail.bok?no=10
The covered buttons are definitely a good idea as when I was in, I was constantly getting the buttons snagged on cam nets and other stuff. It might work easier though to replace one large covered button in the center, with 2 small ones on the sides of the pocket flap to make it more manageable to manipulate the button.
I think that this threat should be moved to the Equipment Forum.
What I'd have loved to seen done to the CF shirt would be to put on sleeve pockets and make the upper chest pockets larger, but accessible through the sides like the Crye Field Shirt so that when you're wearing armor, you can insert your hands through the arm holes on the ballistic vest and reach into your chest pockets.
Lower pockets are such a user preference that it's hard to say get rid of them, or keep them. Some people who tuck their trousers in, hate the lower pockets as they cause the shirt to get all bunched up, whereas other people who like to keep the shirt untucked, like the pockets for putting things like FMPs, maps, compasses, etc. in. Perhaps a comprimise might be found if the lower pockets were detachable through a lightweight MOLLE webbing setup, similar to that used on the Crye range vest? A removable lower pocket could be something along the lines of the Emdom Small Utili-Shingle. http://stores.skipjack.com/emdomusa/Detail.bok?no=10
The covered buttons are definitely a good idea as when I was in, I was constantly getting the buttons snagged on cam nets and other stuff. It might work easier though to replace one large covered button in the center, with 2 small ones on the sides of the pocket flap to make it more manageable to manipulate the button.
I think that this threat should be moved to the Equipment Forum.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Infanteer said:+1.
Amazing how the private market can design and market a product that is twice as good and have it out in half the time when compared to CTS.... :
Amazing how you can judge the suitability of a piece of combat equipment by looking at two or three pictures on the Internet.
Maybe you'd like to design a uniform that will meet the requirements of, say, 50,000 people and see how many of them complain?
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Had an opportunity to check out the new USPat uniform that is based on CADPAT....
other than the fact that it's more gray than green or tan (looks like a lot of our washed out cadpat) I must admit that I am impressed!!!!
Like KevinB has pointed out - they have done away with most chest & body pockets in favor of new ones on the sleeves - where you can get at them while on Tac Ops...
Lots of big velcro areas for you to attach all sorts of things - on both arms
Zipper up the front of the shirt....
Really reinforced elbows, knees & ass
Pockets on the lower arm & calf - easy to access - even when seated in cramped confines in the back of a LAV, Nyala, M113, GWagon or even an Iltis (2R22R are still running em for a little while yet)
The US army may have been a little late coming into the game but - not bad turnout IMHO
other than the fact that it's more gray than green or tan (looks like a lot of our washed out cadpat) I must admit that I am impressed!!!!
Like KevinB has pointed out - they have done away with most chest & body pockets in favor of new ones on the sleeves - where you can get at them while on Tac Ops...
Lots of big velcro areas for you to attach all sorts of things - on both arms
Zipper up the front of the shirt....
Really reinforced elbows, knees & ass
Pockets on the lower arm & calf - easy to access - even when seated in cramped confines in the back of a LAV, Nyala, M113, GWagon or even an Iltis (2R22R are still running em for a little while yet)
The US army may have been a little late coming into the game but - not bad turnout IMHO
Matt_Fisher
Army.ca Veteran
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Michael Dorosh said:
Actually, Infanteer happens to own a set of the Crye stuff, so I'll respect his judgment on whether he thinks its a valid design for field wear.
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I have run the Crye gear in two tactical rifle / pistol courses - and worn it for some of our Gun Club Shoots.
The gear is phenominal - I'm on over 8 washigns and zero fadings or running stiches -- I wish my CADPAT held up so well.
Secondly the padded waist on the pants makes wearign a sidearms a lot more comfortable - and the integral knee and elbow pads allow CQB/CQC to be conducted w/o a decrease in manuverability yet still provided impact protection.
Matt_Fisher
Army.ca Veteran
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Kev,
I thought your waist was already padded? ;D
I thought your waist was already padded? ;D
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Michael Dorosh said:
Amazing how you can assume that my experience with said uniform is merely three pictures on the Internet.
Go over to Lightfighter.net or militarymoron and look at the review for Crye's products. Or better yet, just read what Kevin has to say - he's put them through the ringer. As for uniform design, look at who Crye was designing the uniform for - half a million US soldiers. The selection process still has me confused, and ACU was chosen and Crye decided not to dump the product but instead take it into the civilian market. The MM review here is superb, and shows how well this small company in New York did. Can you say the same for the CTS, which is still struggling to design a backpack almost a decade after the fact?
If you've had to wear body armour for any longish period of time, along with being bombed up, you can appreciate the innovations Crye has made.
I have been wearing the khaki Crye clothing on motorcades and am impressed with them so far. The placement and shape of the pockets is much more functional than the CF combats, I can access them while wearing body armour. What really sets them apart from normal clothing (besides the price ;D ) is the cut of them, they almost feel tailored.
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There is a lot of thought and detail within this thread...
The question is, how do we make them listen?
Is there a way to action this within DLR (Directorate of Land Requirements)?
I know some of you are here... soooo?
I will even volunteer to help design and trial this stuff.
The question is, how do we make them listen?
Is there a way to action this within DLR (Directorate of Land Requirements)?
I know some of you are here... soooo?
I will even volunteer to help design and trial this stuff.
BDTyre
Sr. Member
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I've not come across any major issues with the current design. Lower shirt pockets are fine; I keep my lighter and a spare pen or my keys in there. Upper shirt pockets are usually not an issue, and are reasonably accessable while wearing webbing (probably less so with a tac vest).
The pants though...I tend to do up the bottom draw strings on my shirt, so the hip and rear pockets usually end up unused and empty. The cargo pockets are great for things like my wallet, beret, folded papers, etc. But I did make the mistake while on a weekend course of throwing my fifth mag in the cargo pockets. Oh, what a joy it was to run around with a (thankfully empty) metal container slapping against my leg.
The internal shirt pocket I've used once, and it was somewhat of a pain to get anything in or out. I'd prefer shoulder pockets.
The pants though...I tend to do up the bottom draw strings on my shirt, so the hip and rear pockets usually end up unused and empty. The cargo pockets are great for things like my wallet, beret, folded papers, etc. But I did make the mistake while on a weekend course of throwing my fifth mag in the cargo pockets. Oh, what a joy it was to run around with a (thankfully empty) metal container slapping against my leg.
The internal shirt pocket I've used once, and it was somewhat of a pain to get anything in or out. I'd prefer shoulder pockets.
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refer to sleeve pocket on the goretex jackets....... NEED MORE... accessible when wearing webbing, tac vest, balistic vest... anything!
balance of pockets on shirt could go for all I care - don't smoke and don't use em very much xcept for my cell phone..... internal pocket - never used em, not accessible enough under most circumstances. If they insist on giving us some chest pockets, they should be like on the gortex jacket - accessible from the side sou you can rat at em once you've unzipped your vest.
Leg pockets?........... back pockets - never used em
side pockets.... good for money and matches
Cargo pockets - good to go
pockets on lower leg would be a great help
balance of pockets on shirt could go for all I care - don't smoke and don't use em very much xcept for my cell phone..... internal pocket - never used em, not accessible enough under most circumstances. If they insist on giving us some chest pockets, they should be like on the gortex jacket - accessible from the side sou you can rat at em once you've unzipped your vest.
Leg pockets?........... back pockets - never used em
side pockets.... good for money and matches
Cargo pockets - good to go
pockets on lower leg would be a great help
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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I can agree with having pockets added to the sleeves, but when it comes to removing extra pockets from their current positions, I disagree.
In my unit, and many others, Unit (even Bde) SOP was that ID was kept in upper left pocket of shirt. Remember, you will not always be wearing a TV or Webbing 24 and 7. Cargo pockets on shirt and pants do come in handy. My beret never leaves my body. When not on head, it is safe in my right leg Cargo pocket. Left leg cargo pocket was for FMP; Right was for Map. Upper shirt pockets were for ID, pens, Stadlers, and an exacto knife. Upper right was for other docs and a smaller FMP (MP type). Cargo pockets on shirt were for scrounging. Pants: upper left for keys, and upper right for money. Rear pockets were kept empty - wallets in them caused pain after long periods of driving. Pockets on arms would come in real hand for items that required access while wearing TV, other items like ID, docs, and money, that don't need access constantly, can stay in covered shirt pockets.
Mags in TV.
In my unit, and many others, Unit (even Bde) SOP was that ID was kept in upper left pocket of shirt. Remember, you will not always be wearing a TV or Webbing 24 and 7. Cargo pockets on shirt and pants do come in handy. My beret never leaves my body. When not on head, it is safe in my right leg Cargo pocket. Left leg cargo pocket was for FMP; Right was for Map. Upper shirt pockets were for ID, pens, Stadlers, and an exacto knife. Upper right was for other docs and a smaller FMP (MP type). Cargo pockets on shirt were for scrounging. Pants: upper left for keys, and upper right for money. Rear pockets were kept empty - wallets in them caused pain after long periods of driving. Pockets on arms would come in real hand for items that required access while wearing TV, other items like ID, docs, and money, that don't need access constantly, can stay in covered shirt pockets.
Mags in TV.
