PMJT: The First 100 Days

[Eye In The Sky]

Unless the Canadian military and or rcmp is sent to guard every hotel, mall, gathering place from london to Shanghai there is little Trudeau can do to keep Canadians safe overseas.

Especially in places like the Middle East and parts of Africa. So I honestly don't know what dion is going on about.

If this happened in Toronto Montreal or Vancouver, ya, get angry, spring into action, the works. I honestly don't see how a attack in Africa by a group who from what I'm reading is trying to one up isil warrants the same response. Especially since there is little to nothing we can do about it.

The good ol "there is nothing I can do, why bother even trying" approach.  I favour the 'do what you can, do something, give a fuck about your people' mindset.

I know, nothing the current government does/will do can be 'bad' in your mind. 

 

[Altair]

The good ol "there is nothing I can do, why bother even trying" approach.  I favour the 'do what you can, do something, give a frig about your people' mindset.

I know, nothing the current government does/will do can be 'bad' in your mind.

I might get angry on budget day, and I found trudeau to be a hypocrite when he bills taxpayers for nannies.

But on a whole, not too many missteps yet IMHO. Nothing serious anyways.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Hard to misstep when you just don't step at all, no?

6 Canadians were killed, murdered, slaughtered...while doing humanitarian work.  At least pretend/appear to be outraged by that. 

Please, despite your dislike for the speaker, I ask you to listen carefully to the message "this week's events are a grim reminder that Canada is not immune to the types of terrorist attacks we have seen elsewhere around the world", as this remains true to this very day.

Speech from a national leader

We haven't had a Paris-type event, or one like the most recent ones.  However, let us not forget about things like The Toronto 18 as well as the month of Oct 2014.

 

[Altair]

Hard to misstep when you just don't step at all, no?

6 Canadians were killed, murdered, slaughtered...while doing humanitarian work.  At least pretend/appear to be outraged by that. 

Please, despite your dislike for the speaker, I ask you to listen carefully to the message "this week's events are a grim reminder that Canada is not immune to the types of terrorist attacks we have seen elsewhere around the world", as this remains true to this very day.

Speech from a national leader

We haven't had a Paris-type event, or one like the most recent ones.  However, let us not forget about things like The Toronto 18 as well as the month of Oct 2014.

Hey, I agree that's the tone and kind of response when something like that happens in Canada,  when Canadians are targeted. Especially service members.

I might be callous, but I personally feel that when one goes to a dangerous region and gets caught up in regional violence that it's not quite the same thing. Paris is one thing, it's a safe western city, but Burkina Faso doesn't qualify IMHO.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We'll have to agree to disagree then;  I see it in the 'Canadians killed by terrorists' way, regardless of where it happens. 

 

[Altair]

We'll have to agree to disagree then;  I see it in the 'Canadians killed by terrorists' way, regardless of where it happens.

Let's frame it this way.

Would you care one bit if this attack happened just after the Canadians had left? If no Canadians had died? That's my litmus test.

I cared about Paris, even with no Canadians among the dead. I didn't really care about Beirut which happened around the same time. Judging from.the lack of comments about the Beirut attacks on here, few people did. Now if Canadians just happened to be around the area of Beirut that got attacked, do we suddenly need express extra outrage?

We wouldn't care that a bunch of Africans died in Burkina Faso if those Canadian aid workers weren't in the wrong place at the wrong time and that's my distinction on the issue.

 

[YZT580]

So if 6 Canadians were to die in Paris you would be profoundly disturbed by this vile crime of hatred but if six Canadians die in Afghan. or Pakistan while working there trying to help people raise their standards just a little bit well they shouldn't have been there and I am only deeply saddened.  If your thinking is typical of that of the party whose policies you espouse I am profoundly disturbed.  There is no moral compass in those thoughts just convenience and situational ethics. 

 

[Altair]

So if 6 Canadians were to die in Paris you would be profoundly disturbed by this vile crime of hatred but if six Canadians die in Afghan. or Pakistan while working there trying to help people raise their standards just a little bit well they shouldn't have been there and I am only deeply saddened.  If your thinking is typical of that of the party whose policies you espouse I am profoundly disturbed.  There is no moral compass in those thoughts just convenience and situational ethics.

My thoughts on this are my own, I'm not representing anyone but myself.

But I'll ask you, if those Canadians were at a different location, or just missed the attack, and therefore were not involved, how much would you care that a AQIM attack happened in Burkina Faso?  Where is your moral compass then? Is all human life sacred and equal or are Canadian lives that much more important and special than anybody else's?

Now I'm not saying that Canadian lives don't matter, don't get me wrong. And if it was the case that these Canadians were singled out then my tune would change. But to be caught up in indiscriminate killing, again, wrong place, wrong time, tragic result.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Let's frame it this way.

Would you care one bit if this attack happened just after the Canadians had left? If no Canadians had died? That's my litmus test.

I cared about Paris, even with no Canadians among the dead. I didn't really care about Beirut which happened around the same time. Judging from.the lack of comments about the Beirut attacks on here, few people did. Now if Canadians just happened to be around the area of Beirut that got attacked, do we suddenly need express extra outrage?

We wouldn't care that a bunch of Africans died in Burkina Faso if those Canadian aid workers weren't in the wrong place at the wrong time and that's my distinction on the issue.

:goodpost:  You're quite right. Much, most of this "outrage" is contrived, partisan nonsense. We, Canadians, do not, by and large, care even when Canadians are amongst the victims ... not unless, that is, we can use it to some advantage.

 

[Good2Golf]

:goodpost:  You're quite right. Much, most of this "outrage" is contrived, partisan nonsense. We, Canadians, do not, by and large, care even when Canadians are amongst the victims ... not unless, that is, we can use it to some advantage.

We should care, and not just for Canadians.  Today 19 students at Bacha Khan University in Charsadda, Pakistan were killed by the Taliban.  Terrorism targeted against the less fortunate, or against those who would help them, or against those seeking to educate themselves, is a particular blight on mankind, that must be acted against.  The Canadian spirit should be to care for all these people, not just our own, and would be in keeping with our espoused care for, and self-professed sense of responsibility to protect.

G2G

 

[Altair]

We should care, and not just for Canadians.  Today 19 students at Bacha Khan University in Charsadda, Pakistan were killed by the Taliban.  Terrorism targeted against the less fortunate, or against those who would help them, or against those seeking to educate themselves, is a particular blight on mankind, that must be acted against.  The Canadian spirit should be to care for all these people, not just our own, and would be in keeping with our espoused care for, and self-professed sense of responsibility to protect.

G2G

We should.

We don't.

These things are just small factoids in our day, noticed, processed, filed away under sad, but it happens. To actively care about every tragic occurance like this would be tiring. Unless a Canadian is involved and suddenly it's a tragic event that requires action at the highest level.

To me it's cynical, but again,  I might be callous.

 

[Edward Campbell]

We should care, and not just for Canadians.  Today 19 students at Bacha Khan University in Charsadda, Pakistan were killed by the Taliban.  Terrorism targeted against the less fortunate, or against those who would help them, or against those seeking to educate themselves, is a particular blight on mankind, that must be acted against.  The Canadian spirit should be to care for all these people, not just our own, and would be in keeping with our espoused care for, and self-professed sense of responsibility to protect.

G2G

Yes, indeed, we should care, but I still agree with Altair (he's like a broken clock ... but he has to be right twice a day) that the overwhelming majority of Canadians don't care, and the degree to which we don't care rises with skin colour and distance.

 

[Altair]

Yes, indeed, we should care, but I still agree with Altair (he's like a broken clock ... but he has to be right twice a day) that the overwhelming majority of Canadians don't care, and the degree to which we don't care rises with skin colour and distance.

Thank you...I think.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Some Canadians do still care, so I won't give up hope yet.

Hopefully our government cares about victims of terror attacks who are Canadians at least as much as I do. 

For the record, is there any undisputed fact known that the shit heads did not specifically target the folks who died including the Canadians?  Seems to me that the victims came from a variety of different countries, so personally I don't discount the possibility they MAY have been targeted vice collateral damage.  :2c:

 

[Haggis]

For the record, is there any undisputed fact known that the crap heads did not specifically target the folks who died including the Canadians?  Seems to me that the victims came from a variety of different countries, so personally I don't discount the possibility they MAY have been targeted vice collateral damage.  :2c:

AQIM's claim aside, various outlets reported that westerners were targeted.  It would appear, from those reports at least, that non-westerners were the collateral damage.

 

[YZT580]

Those Canadians in Burkina were targeted.  The hotel is the hangout for most of the NGOs  including Canadians.  That is why it was chosen.  Perhaps they didn't know that the Canucks would be there specifically but they certainly knew that there would be some NGO presence.  It is the place where they unwind, share experiences and the like. (much like the sergeant's mess).  And this Canadian does care regardless of nationality.  ISIS and its look-alikes are a festering sore that need to be lanced.  True, we are selective in our actions but that in itself does not reduce the loathing with which we look upon the low-lifes who commit such things.  The previous govt. chose to attach itself to an effort aimed at ISIS in Iraq.  Chretien chose the Taliban in Afghanistan.  Numerous Canadians backed those actions with cash, letters, and in some cases with their own lives.  From a purely selfish standpoint, I don't want to see the headlines about an attack in Toronto so, if by dropping bombs or training Kurds in Iraq I can reduce that possibility then it is a great investment.  At the same time those who say "so what, they shouldn't have been there" are dangerously delusional. "First they came for the Jews, then they came for the Gypsies...you know how it ends. 

Consider this: in the last 6 years, Islamic terror-inspired fundamentalism has spread from a few isolated pockets in the sandbox to several dozen other areas.  It is a global problem.  When do we say "enough"?  It isn't hypocrisy to express revulsion even if I really can't do anything other than that.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Some Canadians do still care, so I won't give up hope yet.

Hopefully our government cares about victims of terror attacks who are Canadians at least as much as I do. 

For the record, is there any undisputed fact known that the crap heads did not specifically target the folks who died including the Canadians?  Seems to me that the victims came from a variety of different countries, so personally I don't discount the possibility they MAY have been targeted vice collateral damage.  :2c:

It was reported by survivors elsewhere that the terrorists were specifically targeting white people, they would go back and check to see if they were still moving and if so they were shot until they stopped.  The terrorists were communicating to each other in French and were looking to whack westerners.  So, not just because they were "Canadian" per se, but because they were: white, westerners, non-muslims and "just" there... all good snackbar points for the afterlife.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Altair,

I think you see my point, I found you trying to make fact out of opinion WHT the opinion you have that basically says "wrong place, wrong time, too bad for them" and using that to explain away our PM response, which is being looked at critically by many  as uncaring and in bad taste.

Those 6 Canadians weren't unlucky, they were victims.  How many more have to die before " it matters" to you and the party you blindly support?

Think on that some.

 

[Edward Campbell]

This is not a NATO meeting - that would have about 20 more attendees.  The grouping matches up to the largest contributors of ground forces who are also conducting air strikes.  Because we are doing advice and assist but not "Building Partner Capacity", we were not on the list.  Australia, Italy and the Dutch are.

Sorry - no conspiracy here.

Canada routinely attends meeting that only ground troop providers are invited to.  We are invited to the broader coalition meeting in Brussels on 11 Feb hosted by SECDEF (along with 25 of our closest allies....) because the criteria were expanded to those providing both ground troops and strike aircraft.  A little birdie tells me we will be represented on 2 Feb in Paris anyway.

It doesn't really matter what those pesky little facts might be ... the perceptions, fuelled by the media, are:

    1. Canada was "shut out" of an important meeting ~ because Justin Trudeau is pulling the CF-18s, just to keep an ill-considered campaign promise;

    2. Justin Trudeau is either sympathetic to Da'esh/IS** or, at least, he has a "tin ear" when it comes to sympathizing with victims of Arab terrorism; and

    3. He's a pacifist.

Now I suspect that none of those things are wholly true but I think some (many? even most?) Canadians believe that there is some, maybe a lot of truth in all of them.

 

[Loachman]

But just wait for War Measures Act II in the near future...