Ontario Taxes and Premiums

[bossdog]

I'm going to rant about the average deductions for regular working class folk in Ontario. When it was finally announced that we in Ontario have to start paying into an Ontario Health Premium, I was floored! One reason led to another which then led me here to bitch about it.

Being in the military, my health benefits are covered by a federal budget. My doctor, prescriptions, eyewear and even dental are all covered by a federal \ military budget. My OHIP card was turned over to the military for destruction upon enrollment. Even if I seek civilian medical attention, emergency or otherwise, I present a Blue Cross card and the federal government is billed accordingly.

So my question is, why am I paying $37.50 per month for an Ontario Health Premium?

Let's say for example (I'm unsure of the actual number) that there are close to 10,000 military personal in Ontario. At $450.00 to $650.00 per year for each member, an accumulation of $4,500,000.00 to $6,500,000.00 comes from sources that will not be able to utilize the service.

So does this mean that I can start seeking civilian care? Nope.

This led me to thinking about our other deductions.

If you make between $3500.00 and 67,000.00 you are paying the following taxes in Ontario:
FEDERAL: 22%
PROVINCIAL: 31%
EQUALS: 53%

So, for every $1000.00 that you earn, you get to keep $470.00. Let's not forget about our PST and GST either!

Out of that $470.00, we can effectively spend $400.00 once the GST and PST come into play.

60% of our earned monies is taken for taxes. That would mean that from January to August, we are working for the government. HOLY CRAP!

Isn't this how revolutions, civil wars and guerilla warfare start? Ah but wait, that only happens when governments rape a country that isn't preoccupied with mass media, television, Big Mac's and a passive lifestyle.

Oh! Can't forget about those gas, liquor and tobacco taxes either!

 

[rdschultz]

Hmm, I think you are painting too bleak a picture.  I'll agree with your basic premise, tax rates are too high, but the information I've got says that Ontario has a provincial tax rate of 9.15% for the range you're talking about (roughly, from $32828 to $65721).

 

[bossdog]

I agree, I may have gotten a little carried away and started to vent a little bit - I'm all better now  8)

However, this is the information that I have for Ontario:

first $33,375 - 22.05%
over $33,375 up to $35,000 - 25.15% 
over $35,000 up to $66,752 - 31.15%
over $66,752 up to $70,000 - 33.16%
over $70,000 up to $113,804 - 37.16%
over $113,804 - 40.16%

Please, if I'm misguided, sort me out. I don't mind being wrong from time to time 

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'm too lazy to get the Ontario tax package off the CCRA site, so the question is this: is that provincial tax percentage a percentage of your gross income, or a percentage of your federal tax payable?

 

[rdschultz]

Hmm, I meant to include a link.

http://www.taxpayer.com/Facts/TaxRates_By_Province_2004.pdf

Perhaps those are the provincial + federal amount?  That seems to add up.  Or maybe I'm misguided...

 

[bossdog]

I'll have to look in to some more. Either way, It makes me sick to look at my "Tax To Date" portion of my pay stub - and it's going to be even worse once I start seeing the OHP coming off of there!

 

[rdschultz]

I know, your point still stands.  Tax rates are ridiculous. 

 

[Inch]

Dude, I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers but these are the ones off the CRA website
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html

Ontario
6.05% on the first $33,375 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $33,377, +
11.16% on the amount over $66,752

Federal
16% on the first $35,000 of taxable income;
22% on the next $35,000 of taxable income;
26% on the next $43,804 of taxable income; and
29% of taxable income over $113,804.

I live in NS and with my retro pay from getting my pilot wings I'll make over $80,000 this year, with the new tax rates in NS my marginal tax rate (the amount of tax you pay on the last dollar you make) is 44%.  That means that on the first 30 or so grand I pay quite a bit less than that.  Now if you're factoring in CPP and EI, then maybe the rates are a little higher but you stop paying CPP and EI after you make $39,000, that's why most people stop paying CPP and EI in the fall sometime.

Now since all this info can be found in the CBI's, I'll tell you what my pay statement looks like. $5040 + $254 (aircrew allowance) + $146 PLD = $5440. I also get clothing upkeep allowance but it's non-taxable so I didn't include it. Of that $5440 I pay $1415.36 in combined federal/provincial income tax, I pay $202.80 into my military pension, $12.15 for sup death benefits, $10.55 Disability, $20 mess dues, and $2.50 into the Sqn fund. The total deductions are $1663.36 or 30.58% and income tax paid is 26.02%. Your income tax deducted is averaged out so that you don't pay more as the year progresses, at the beginning of the year you pay more than you're supposed to but at the end of the year you pay less and it balances out.

Now you mentioned the "to date" part of your pay statement, this is what mine says for mid-July: Pay - $50,873.70, Taxable allowances- $2383.86 and total tax paid of $14137.73 or 26.53% of my taxable income. Quite a bit less than you originally posted. It's not all that bad and I'm in one of the higher taxed provinces. Maybe I'll get boned come tax time but in my time in the military it has yet to happen, they're pretty good for taking more than they are supposed to.

Cheers,

 

[Yard Ape]

It is funny that the provinces that were most proud of thier tax cutting records have had to subject thier populations to health care premiums (AB & ON).

If everyone has to pay it, why not just raise income tax & keep it simple (one tax).  Oh wait, then we might recognize that premiums are taxes.

 

[rdschultz]

I don't know, I  prefer having it broken down into the different subcomponents, like health care premiums.  It lets me know where my money is going.  Rather than paying a bunch more cash into a big pot, and hoping that a certain amount goes into the right place.  Not that it matters much, because its not like the premium is the only cash health care sees, but I wish it were more that way.

http://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/bfp/bgt2004_appendices_table-a3.htm

That lists a good example of overall tax amounts.  I found it after I moved to Saskatchewan, and heard people here say the old "oh, our taxes are higher, but we don't have to pay for health care so it makes up for it". 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...and we were promised, no new taxes.... :rage:

 

[bossdog]

I know I got a little carried away in my original post but I would like to throw out a thought for some feedback:

Paying a health premium for resources that can not be used by military personnel.

What''s the general feeling about that?

 

[Brad Sallows]

How you "feel" about paying premiums should be influenced by which agency cares for your dependants (if you have dependants).

 

[bossdog]

Maybe we should have the option to pay into it based on our domestic situation. If you have dependants, then yes - one member of the household should pay into it.

I'm sure I'm not alone on this - I have no dependants that rely on this system and in turn will never be able to use it.

 

[canuck101]

Just wait a few years the Ontario Health premium is going to double.  The man responsible for this  injustice is Dalton himself and i have the privilege to call him my MPP.  :rage: Today in a radio interview he said it was aright to promise things to people and not be able to make good better to over promise and get elected i guess. the man that now says it was OK to lie to the people.  Remember he is at 9% approval rating not much room to go down so nothing to lose.

cheers

 

[Yard Ape]

I don't know, I   prefer having it broken down into the different subcomponents, like health care premiums.   It lets me know where my money is going.  

Then let the government promise to spend the first X dollars of tax money collected from each person on health care.  How much does it cost to create a new administration to run a seperate taxation means?

What about sales taxes.  If you had the choice to reduce income taxes or eliminate sales taxes, which would you take?

 

[bossdog]

Lower income tax - that's my vote.

 

[rdschultz]

I'd choose to eliminate one general tax, rather than lower another.  Of course, that would depend on my income situation at the time.  If I was saving more money than I was spending, it would benefit me to have a lower income tax.  Right now, that isn't the case, so it really doesn't matter.  But assuming an equivalent benefit to me, I'd prefer to get rid of sales taxes. 

Actually, thinking about it, what I'd really like to see is a detailed workup of where your tax dollars go, as part of your tax return.  The information is out there, but I think it should be something every Canadian would see, instead of just the particularly motivated. 

 

[Cloud Cover]

Well, its been a while since I was in the forces, but could someone tell me the status of medical coverage for family members and dependents etc.of serving members? Somebody earlier in this post mentioned giving up their OHIP card, but is that the same for family members as well? Because, "back in the day" it never used to be that way ... and I know for a fact RCMP and all other federal civil servants [all 145 000 of them in Ontario],  still have their OHIP cards... so why the change [if any?]

 

[bossdog]

They take our OHIP cards because we are covered federally through DND. Family members have access to a family medical plan but that only compliments what they already receive from OHIP. My wife is a US citizen and is not eligable for OHIP yet and therefore can not utilize the family benefits plan.

A note on the new premium:
I looked at my pay statement and they just increased the amount of income tax taken. It isn't identified as a seperate deduction.