Nova Scotia Thread- Merged

[AmmoTech90]

Gagetown is segregated between JRs, SNCO/WO, Officers.

My row house was being torn so CFHA told me to drive around and check out the empty houses and get back to them with a list of ones I might like to move into.  So I pick some out, the first couple I was told no, it's too big for your family size.  The next one was the right size, but was told, you cant have it, its in the SNCO lines.  Luckily I had been promoted, pointed that out, got the keys.

I'm sure there are SNCOs living in the JRs lines, just because they have been there so long, same as I was, possibly even CFR'd officers.  Of course having no kids, I didn't run into any of the problems other posters have mentioned.

You want an us and them mentatlity, try working with Brits for a bit.  Individual officers can be fine, but there is definately a class shadow lurking there.

 

[sigtech]

Kingston isn't segeregated, Segregation base on rank is a waste of time. What happens when you move off the base , I did and beside me is a Chief WO and a Major, opps guess I best sell my place and move  >

 

[camochick]

I lived 14 years on bases in Canada, segregated bases, and I never felt bad about my dad being an ncm. I hung out with officer's children, Ncm's children, we didnt care, we were kids and wanted to play (plus we all went to the same school, and they didnt segregate the classes, so you didnt really know who you made friends with). I guess maybe I was oblivious to any real discrimination, if there was any.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

I am surprised to hear that Gagetown is segregated...as I know several Sgts that live among the officers on Dakota...and when dh and I moved in to our duplex I had a neighbor proclaim to me that we should move "this is the Sgts and WO's housing, you don't belong here" Dh was a "lowly little 2Lt" at the time...I was intimidated by the WO's wife next door. Now I can name a dozen or so officers who have moved in on my street...so much for the Sgt/WO area. Conversely I know of several officers living in row houses next door to Cpls and the like...one friend of ours even lives just a few units away from one member of the troop he commands.

I think the base commander is currently trying to stop the segregation...but if members of staff at CFHA continue to opperate in the Rankist attitude segregation will continue.

I, for one, am definately not rankist...my best friend is a Cpl's wife, my kids play with Pte's kids, and I have coffee and do crafts with a plethera of all ranks. It is too bad that there are not more accepting people out there. People are people, who cares what rank you wear at work...chances are you are still a fun person to hang with.

 

[Unknown C/S]

Artywife; Let me play the devils advocate here...............

I will take you back maybe 70 years or so.... location Macon, Georgia, USA.

I believe that my chidren see no difference in who they play with. I live in a community where the race/ religion/background or ethnic minority of the child makes no difference to me. As a matter of fact we have 4 "*****" families in the block. And we have a ------- child at my son/daughters school. I believe that people are people............

Now launch yourself forward:

The fact that you were aware of everyones rank within your block indicates that this is still an issue. The bottom line is does the member of th C.F. that you live with condone this approach?  Will he/she invite the mother and father over for a BBQ? I have witnessed this type of patronizing gesture (look I can tolerate other ranks!!)  I believe that this may be even worse.

This problem still exists, If you were sincere then you probably would not know, or care about the rank of the families around you.

I think that the C.F will get there. It will be a long journey though.........



(By the way, I am a WASP I do not have a axe to grind. I just do not like segregation or class systems)

 

[crazyleggs]

If my memory serves me right, all Capts and below were together.  The CFHA site refers to Senior Officers for some of the housing.  That section of MQs is for Majors and above.  We used to call those streets "lifer's row".  The MQs in Greenwood are not bad at all either.

 

[sigtech]

I, for one, am definately not rankist...my best friend is a Cpl's wife, my kids play with Pte's kids, and I have coffee and do crafts with a plethera of all ranks. It is too bad that there are not more accepting people out there. People are people, who cares what rank you wear at work...chances are you are still a fun person to hang with.

The key is this what happens at home stays at home and what happens at work stays at work. Segregation had it place once apon a time i guess but if everyone can be proffisonals and not take work problems home , there is no need for it

 

[3rd Horseman]

Maybe I can help,

  As the guy that wrote the SOPs for CFHA at Gagetown the segragated areas was a hot issue. Debated many times throughout my time on the G 1 staff.

  I can tell you that CFHA wanted to end segragation it was the command that wanted it kept. I for one argued for segragation not to kep people apart an creat a we they issue but to keep a poor Cpl from losing a back fence argument with a Maj. The decision was made to segragate
Snr officers
Jnr Officers
Snr NCOs MWO CWO
Snr NCO Sgt WO
Jnr NCO
Single Jnr NCO
Single Snr NCO
Single Officer

  The areas are all mapped and devide to the exact house number and street, now the deal was to let the issue slide for the border ranks between them you could post a soldier close to the boundry for a housinmg shortage need but it had to close to the boundry.

  Remember this was done to protect soldiers not separate the Snr Officers thinking they were elite.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Still got the Verbal Tag so I cant edit my poor typos, clicked to fast sorry.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

The only reason that I know officers live on my street (and I do not actually know their rank) is because they happened to be on course with or work with my dh. That leads me to assume that they are officers of some type. My neighbor made it very clear to me upon my arrival what rank her hubby was and that we did not belong...I still do not know what rank my other neighbors are...and their kids have babysat mine.

I know what rank my best friend's hubby is because she told me that once I found out, we would not be allowed to be friends...let alone have dinner parties together...

Edited to add: When I lived in Greenwood 10 years ago and went to High School there, I didn't even know which kids were military and which were civilian much less rank...except the obvious kids that lived in the Qs...I figured they were military...but that was my powerfull deductive reasoning at its best again. I still, to this day, have no idea where what rank lives where in Gwood. I may have been just an unconscious kid...but I was oblivious to any segregation at that time.

I personally don't care what rank people are, but that is me personally. I can not speak for everyone. I am ashamed that there is a rankist part of society within the CF, just as I am ashamed that there is racism and discrimination against other people's chosen religion or culture. Again, that is me, personally. I strive to not get caught up in it. Though I am not always successfull as I have lost many good friends once they found out what rank my husband was...they felt intimidated to come by, their hubby's told them not to cross the line. That dissapoints me, but as I have come to realize in my 4 short years associated with the CF, such is life.

 

[SHF]

I currently live at 14 Wing Greenwood.  There is really only one segregated area.  It is 6th and 7th.  The PMQs there are the nicest homes on the wing, but the remaining PMQs have, for the most part, been upgraded.  The residents of the segregatd area are typically COs and Branch Heads (Majs & LCols).  I know most of them and they work hard and most serve well.  Just as they have reserved parking, bigger officers, admin assistants, they have bigger PMQs and all live in the same area.  They uproot their families and will move of the"street of dreams" every 2-3 years.  Most would love stability and a chance to buy a home and give their families real houses, but they made career choices to climb the ladder.  Should they be provided decent housing? Yes. 

When all the PMQ sections were segregated here years ago, I was a Cpl.  In 1988, I didn't want to live next to any senior officers and surely to god, I didn't want to live next to MWOs or CWOs.  We hung out, made noise, and did our thing (mostly before the dance or after the dance at the Club COPRI - JRs Mess).  Certainly then the living arrangements all made sense. 

I grew up in PMQs in the 60s and 70s.  My father was a MCPL and I attended the military run schools.  There was no poor behaviour towards us from senior ranking folks or their kids.  I only recall one kid in all that time who was a little pretentious over his father's rank. 

I lived and worked on all sides of the fences.  I've been a Pte, I've been an MWO, and now I'm an aging Capt.  Some of you folks have your wires crossed.  This class or rankism crap you're ranting about is BS.  Good lord, of course senior folks have more priveleges or different work circumstances.  They also have significantlly different resposnsibilties, the higher in rank they go.  As a Cpl I didn't put in many late days at work, but as an MWO, I had folks working for me who needed my support, so I stayed late until all was well.  The same goes for senior officers - some of these fellas and gals don't get home until mid evening.  For some the work continues over their co-workers' BBQ. 

Me, I'd rather live in my own home.  The ranks who don't have that luxury can keep their PMQs.  The senior folks who move every couple years to serve or chase careers can keep their segregated street.  It's no skin off my nose.  You folks who believe that your senior officers think of you as an underclass, have some personal issues you should deal with. 

Back to the beginning, there is talk here about desegregating the remaining street.   

 

[sigtech]

CFHA is removing segregation? Well not really yes you can live anywhere in Kingston if you can afford the high high rent , so some Q's have only Majors and above in them. Should there be some segregation yes I do believe the senior officers and NCO's (MWO and above) should have there own little corner. I as a Cpl don't really want to know what is going on in their life's , it is the same as if you where working in civie land would you really want to live next to your boss?

Yes if you can leave what happens at work at work, and what happens at home at home this shouldn't be a problem but this doesn't always happen. So with in reason segregation is a needed evil. I am friends with Officers that I lived beside before I left the Q's will these friendships change if these people ever became my boss , you bet your bippy. No matter how nice a guy is, there is a line be it in the military or in Civie land, Management is Management and workers are workers. i guess if you want to live the life or Management then take the steps that are necessary to either be a Officer and get promoted. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the segregated fence.

I am changing my toon a little bit from the earlier post but only after some thought. We are a class driven world it would be nice if there was such a thing as a classless socity , but I do belive other countys have tired that and failed

 

[Unknown C/S]

SHF

To counter your opinion would take far too much time.

Fact: Airbases have a different mentality than Army.

Fact: I too endorse purchasing a house, plan for the future

Fact:  I too spent long hours at work during my career. some of those hours were spent sorting out the substandard housing provided to lower ranks.

I have had soldiers come to me to report they were ordered out of area's (while walking the dog as it was not "their" area)

The point here is; military members are given SHARP training. diversification training, cultural awareness briefings (overseas tours) yet they miss the point in their own backyard.

The wires are not crossed. All the same military yet different standards of living for military families. PMQ's (wherever they are) that sit empty should be filled regardless of rank. If the occupant is loud, unruly, or a pig then they are removed.

I too have known many very good senior officers and have many friends in the upper echelon in the ranks. It does need to be said that they are not the offenders. Junior officers who have not put in the time nor paid their dues are the worst offenders of trying to maintain the old british class system.

This is not the 50's,60's or even the 70's......... Many young C.F. members are not only better educated than we were (I believe the same generation of stork was resupplying hospitals for both of us...) but in some cases better educated than "management"
It is a different world  now and this should be reflected in how the base housing is administered

 

[SHF]

Unk C/S,

Surprisingly in spite of our differing points of view and personal experiences, we agree on a lot.  DND & to a lesser point CFHA must ensure that all military housing and accommodations are satisfactory for family or individual living.  The Qs in Shannon Park were horrid, and the old singles and duplexes in Griesbach were a mess.  Desegregating doesn't solve this problem.  Leadership does.  I am visiting Petawawa now, and I am quite surprised at the poor condition of the PMQs.  Greenwood has spent millions on infrastructure improvements, as have other bases.  There is a drastic difference between the Qs here in Pet and G'wood, yet in reference to the original thread question, Greenwood still has segregation.  You can have a neighbourhood that is setup for a specific rank group and still have good housing for other rank groups.  I put forth that fighting the segregation battle is the wrong battle.  Ensuring our young privates and officers have decent and affordable housing is the real fight. 

I find your point about the young folks joining today having better education interesting.  We seem to have allowed this mindset of better educated subordinates to affect several leadership decisions.  When you join the military, the education that you have prior to entry means squat with regards to how you must be treated.  All subordinates must be treated fairly.  Sometimes you get the carrot, sometimes you get the stick.  I don't sit down with any subordinates in initial interviews and ask them what school they went to.  Privileges are earned from solid work effort and results.  I find it annoying when I hear how the young soldiers, sailors and techs of today are better educated than we were so we should cut them some slack or use different leadership styles to solely suit their sensitivities.  Discipline knows no education lines.  Good leaders must fairly enforce the rules and regulations and have the the wisdom to judge if a real infraction has occurred.

As I mentioned you and I have different military life experiences.  You have your thoughts, I have mine. 

Cheers

 

[GO!!!]

I've seen the nicer officers quarters, but I've also seen the rents that they pay.

You want to pay 1200-1400$ a month in rent for a house you don't own?

Have at'er!

I'll drive past your rental house in a vehicle I paid off, to a house on a 10 year mortgage (9 now) to a wife who can have a career too, because mine doe'snt make me move every 24 months.

Yup, I sure envy those guys!

Give it a break! I swear if this army did'nt have anything to complain about, the silence would be deafening.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I've seen the nicer officers quarters, but I've also seen the rents that they pay.

You want to pay 1200-1400$ a month in rent for a house you don't own?

Have at'er!

I'll drive past your rental house in a vehicle I paid off, to a house on a 10 year mortgage (9 now) to a wife who can have a career too, because mine doe'snt make me move every 24 months.

Yup, I sure envy those guys!

Give it a break! I swear if this army did'nt have anything to complain about, the silence would be deafening.

Go!!! Some guy at NDHQ is probably a'fixin' to post you to Stadacona right now as the first voluntold member for the SCTF!!

 

[Cybelle24]

Hello everyone,

I would like to get info about the PMQs in Shearwater and Greenwood. I looked on the CF website for the prices but of course they won't say if the PMQs are in good shape or if they're old and would need repairs. On another topic here I read that there is a REAL problem with many PMQs on Canadian bases so I would like to know what I'm getting into if we move in a PMQ in Shearwater or Greenwood. Just for the record, my boyfriend is a Cpl but I'm not in the army and we have no kids yet, so a 2 or 3-bedroom PMQ would be sufficient for us.

I'm a bit worried about moving into a PMQ because I read on the CF website that PMQs in Shearwater do have basements but we cannot use them all the time because of "water-related issues" !!!    Does it mean that there are frequent floodings in Shearwater ?? That's not very reassuring... So that's why I would love it if people here could give me some info about the PMQs in Shearwater and Greenwood.

Thanks a lot in advance !!

 

[jobi]

Hi all,

  It's my 1st post here.  I just found out about this site while browsing for information on our move to Halifax where we are posted this summer.

  We currently live in Trenton and we have a few questions we were hoping some of you could answer about life in Halifax...  Any info would be greatly appreciated.  We went through the forum to make sure that we did not ask the same questions....

1.  We live in MQs in Trenton.  It has it's positive and negative sides but all together we have no major complains so we plan on getting an MQ in Shearwater if one is available.  Any comments or suggestions about MQs in Shearwater?  How's the heating cost? How's the MQ area?  How long does it take to commute to the dockyard?

2.  We lived in Esquimalt for 10 years and did not need Air Conditioning.  Trenton was a different story and we now own 3 of these power hungry appliances.  Would they be required in Halifax?  Are the summer nights scorching hot or does it cool down enough to only sleep with the windows open?

3.  Our 2 kids will be going in Grade 2 & 5 and we were curious to know how is the French school in Dartmouth?  Anyone sending their kids there?  How do you find the school?  How are the kids behaviour at school and how long is the bus ride from the MQs.  If we were to move elsewhere than the MQ's would you recommend the Halifax or the Dartmouth French School.  (ps. we are not looking for French immersion...)

4.  How's the cost of living, especially compared to Ontario (Kingston/Trenton).  I saw a post about a $7 4L milk   Is it that expensive for food? 

5.  Because we are 4, we are entitled to 2 rooms or a suite while waiting for our furniture to arrive.  We are hoping to find a nice suite with a very large Jacuzzi  and a sofa-bed or 2nd double bed.  Preferably but not necessarily close to Shearwater...  Any suggestions?

6.  Anyone got their furniture moved from Ontario to NS in the summer? how long did it take for you?

7.  Finally, any advice about the Move either concerning Royal Lepage or when arriving there,...

  I know this I am asking for a lot but if you have a tiny bit of information about any of these questions, I would love to hear your thoughts...

Thanks again...

 

[Springroll]

Welcome Jobi!!

I can't answer your question about the Q's in Shearwater, but I can answer some of your other questions.

  We lived in Esquimalt for 10 years and did not need Air Conditioning.  Trenton was a different story and we now own 3 of these power hungry appliances.  Would they be required in Halifax?  Are the summer nights scorching hot or does it cool down enough to only sleep with the windows open?

Some nights are very warm, and hubby and I wish we had an air conditioner. Some are not. I would keep them, just in case. Out in Victoria we never needed any either.

  How's the cost of living, especially compared to Ontario (Kingston/Trenton).  I saw a post about a $7 4L milk  Is it that expensive for food?

The cost of living is considerably higher when it comes to food and such. Yes, milk is just about $7 a 4L....the only difference we noticed was yes, we can afford to buy out here(vs Victoria) but everything else seems to be expensive. You are also taxed more out here.

  Because we are 4, we are entitled to 2 rooms or a suite while waiting for our furniture to arrive.  We are hoping to find a nice suite with a very large Jacuzzi  and a sofa-bed or 2nd double bed.  Preferably but not necessarily close to Shearwater...  Any suggestions?

When we arrived we stayed at The Delta Halifax. Had a great expoerience with them(morning buffet is the way to go!) and they were pet friendly. If you want something more quaint, check out Stern's Mansion. They are a B&B that we were permitted to stay in on our HHT. Our room had a hot tub in the bathroom...it was fantastic but small.

  Finally, any advice about the Move either concerning Royal Lepage or when arriving there,...

If you have done the move form out west to Ontario, then you are pretty well prepared for this move...just remember to save EVERY receipt, no mater what. Let them sift through them to find the ones relevant...after you have made copies of all of them.

Good luck in your move!
I hope it is as hassle free as possible!

 

[Siggywife]

1.  We live in MQs in Trenton.  It has it's positive and negative sides but all together we have no major complains so we plan on getting an MQ in Shearwater if one is available.  Any comments or suggestions about MQs in Shearwater?  How's the heating cost? How's the MQ area?  How long does it take to commute to the dockyard?

The MQ's in Shearwater are being redone.. All MQ's are on oil.. Oil right now if you get capped in is about .78 cents a litre.. From Shearwater it is about 15 to 20 mintues taking the macdonald brigde across.. If you get a MAC Pass it is only 30 dollars a month instead of .75 cents each way

2.  We lived in Esquimalt for 10 years and did not need Air Conditioning.  Trenton was a different story and we now own 3 of these power hungry appliances.  Would they be required in Halifax?  Are the summer nights scorching hot or does it cool down enough to only sleep with the windows open?

YOU dont need any here either..We were surprised since we moved here last summer from Ontario..

3.  Our 2 kids will be going in Grade 2 & 5 and we were curious to know how is the French school in Dartmouth?  Anyone sending their kids there?  How do you find the school?  How are the kids behaviour at school and how long is the bus ride from the MQs.  If we were to move elsewhere than the MQ's would you recommend the Halifax or the Dartmouth French School.  (ps. we are not looking for French immersion...)

Sorry Cant help you there..

4.  How's the cost of living, especially compared to Ontario (Kingston/Trenton).  I saw a post about a $7 4L milk  Is it that expensive for food? 

We moved form Ontario to Shearwater last summer.. Our Grocery bills have double considerabley since moving here.. I would shop at Loblaws and A&P before moving out here to get a rough idea on how much more expensive it is.. But there are spots for fruits and vegetables that are alittle less then super market prices..

5.  Because we are 4, we are entitled to 2 rooms or a suite while waiting for our furniture to arrive.  We are hoping to find a nice suite with a very large Jacuzzi  and a sofa-bed or 2nd double bed.  Preferably but not necessarily close to Shearwater...  Any suggestions?

Ramada Inn in Brunside it is just off the 111.. it isnt all that close but it is about 15 minutes from shearwater..it is off of Brownlow..

6.  Anyone got their furniture moved from Ontario to NS in the summer? how long did it take for you?

Our furniture took five days..

7.  Finally, any advice about the Move either concerning Royal Lepage or when arriving there,...

Everything is much behind in the times.. The readily available that we are used to in Kingston isnt here..Taxes are much higher and minium wage is much lower.. The cuts of meat isnt all that great but livable..People are friendly.. Plenty of ocean to see..the beaches are free... and the weather isnt all that bad either.. As along as you have a list of what you need for shopping and stay within a budget you shouldnt have issues as far as money goes... This is our biggest isue.. We arent used to having such a tight budget..

I hope Shearwater treats you better.. We are off to Edmonton.. It really is a nice place to be.. but it isnt for everyone.. Dh has got to go back to Army mode which he isnt looking forward to doing..LOL.. He finally has hair.. Good luck

Siggy