New CF Fitness Policies Coming

[Haggis]

I was told the other evening that everyone deploying on Class B, whether it's course or just a tasking, must pass the minimum express test. At least it's a start.

The policy of the NDHQ PRL is exactly that.  Every member applying tor a Class B position over 180 days must have an EXPRES or LFCPFS test pass on their file.  Members may be hired without this, but they MUST pass within 90 days or their employment will be terminated.

 

[geo]

(yup.... but only if greater than 180 days)

 

[Journeyman]

....they MUST pass [fitness test] within 90 days or their employment will be terminated.

(yup.... but only if greater than 180 days)

.....less than 180 days, and the employment stays but they're terminated    ;D

 

[orange.paint]

Is it really a start?
http://www.recrutement.forces.gc.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

So your a under 35 plus member please to god tell me you can do

19 push ups,19 situps and 75kg grip.

2hrs 26min 20sec BFT

or does AFM fitness check level three offer a much broader sense of fitness?And much more challenging compared to the previous.
2.4km 10min 30- 9min 16
5km 25:00 23:01

45kg bench press 27-32 reps
situps 40-44 reps

and all the jumping.

As stated Level three is where you should be.Its an easy goal that could benefit many members who I have seen complete this test achieving "getting started" to level 1 on all exercises.The problem being the bottom of the fitness check page excluded pers from being punished for not achieving a level three by stating
"The fitness check will not be used as a standard,The only standard is the LFCPFS"

Now in my opinion why pay all the money ,all the training using the manual if the only test that really matters is the LFCPFS?

Now this is another little thing I was thinking about also.After looking at the ranger competition today why don't we have something like this on a army wide scale? 24 hr competition involving EVERY unit from PLF to JTF entering 2 man teams.Boost esprit de corp,reservist in top condition who are picked to represent their units get coverage for training,and one hell of a good competition.Now personally I haven't done mountain man/Ironman yet (will this year hopefully) but wouldn't a army wide military competition be a good idea to boost the idea of physically fit soldiers?Also the civilian public would perceive the army as being a fit/hardcore place to be, thus keeping losers from applying.

Just my little idea of the hour.

Now on training of new troops.I am sick and tired of the amount of pte's marching limping around in cadpat.Here these troops cannot keep up with the weak PT at training centers and can be expected to go to operational units with much higher (from what I recall) levels of physical fitness and be employable?These are the troops at the MIR every morning because they got pains in their legs...by the way "skins" its called a hamstring, suck it up.

General Hillier wants the culture of fitness well nip it in the butt on both ends.Snr NCO's not in shape,Demote.New troops coming in cant keep up/on chit recourse.

Next I'm going to attack our medical centers.I don't frequent these places and had quite a little tiff with a guy at the front counter there Friday.I began filling out a forum that was for part time staff and he decided to say what the heck are you doing? I quickly sneered back "I don't ####### frequent this facility thanks,which one you want me to fill out" (I'm getting minor plastic surgery done on a old wound..its needed not cosmetic) he stopped >. Now these are the same people who give out chits like its an invitation to a after hours club in Ottawa.Chits like "cannot wear boots that are not broken in" "cant do anything except breath (and only at own pace)" enough is enough!People get hurt and go there for legitimate reasons (I.E myself on Friday, during my lunch i must add) but there has to be a limit while on courses.More than 2 periods of class time lost RECOURSE! If your on chit for more than 5 days RECOURSE.That way the medical center can keep handing out the chits and training cells can keep re coursing and graduation day will be full of Canada's fit new soldiers,not 25 promising broken Cpl's on chit.Thus ending a plague on our already over worked medical facilities who also have to deal with fit troops with real problems on top of these malingering idiots.I have had no probelms at the doctor offices when I did go unlike a lot of broken people who always have problems.
(most likely its because my med file dont look like a JANES AFV book)

Rant out.

 

[Haggis]

.....less than 180 days, and the employment stays but they're terminated    ;D

Don't quite see what you're getting at, JM and Geo.

Just to be clear: A reservist can be hired by an employing unit for a contract of over 180 days without having completed a fitness test.  However if the Reservist fails to pass or fails to be tested within 90 days of the hire date, the employment is terminated.  The Reservist is not terminated.

 

[geo]

quite simply, from my perspective, reservists that are only there for 1-6 months, don't get put thru their paces...... bottom basement should be set at 90 days IMHO.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

............and any Reg, that does not meet the same criteria, should be afforded the same opportunity to retire, without pension, forthwith. Get off the fat Reserve bandwagon. There's lot's of slovenly, out of shape, useless, fat POS posers in the Regs too. Deal with them, maybe the Reserves will stop following the example.

 

[orange.paint]

......or shot.

 

[Haggis]

............and any Reg, that does not meet the same criteria, should be afforded the same opportunity to retire, without pension, forthwith. Get off the fat Reserve bandwagon. There's lot's of slovenly, out of shape, useless, fat POS posers in the Regs too. Deal with them, maybe the Reserves will stop following the example.

What burns my butt is seeing some SpandexPAT wearin' tan beret Ninjasniper outside of NDHQ waiting for his bus when his god-like physiqe (Not Adonis.  Buddah is a god, too.) tells me he should be walkin'.

But hey, he could be Reg... he could be Res.  Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

 

[George Wallace]

What burns my butt is seeing some SpandexPAT wearin' tan beret Ninjasniper outside of NDHQ waiting for his bus when his god-like physiqe (Not Adonis.  Buddah is a god, too.) tells me he should be walkin'.

But hey, he could be Reg... he could be Res.  Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

Unfortunately, that is the spot that you will find the most of these types.......not the Tan Beret types, but the Buddha's.  And rank doesn't give you any privileges to acquire that 'Buddha' butt or belly.

Remember BMI?  How many NCMs were punted for BMI?  Then when you went near a HQ, of any size, where was that standard?  In the end when 'Science' came into play, many, if not all, of those folk were re-offered their jobs back.

Such is the 'Circle of Life'.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

.....and I have no argument with that. Except every one of these fitness threads seem to end up taking a decidely Reserve force bent.

If we want to talk about Force's fitness, ........fine. Keep it notional and nominal. Everyone in the same basket, with the same benefits, coverage and the same goals. Total force. Just like our equipment, BTS, tasks, rank, etc, right?

 

[Haggis]

If we want to talk about Force's fitness, ........fine. Keep it notional and nominal. Everyone in the same basket, with the same benefits, coverage and the same goals. Total force. Just like our equipment, BTS, tasks, rank, etc, right?

Where's the fun in that??  ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Unfortunately, that is the spot that you will find the most of these types.......not the Tan Beret types, but the Buddha's.  And rank doesn't give you any privileges to acquire that 'Buddha' butt or belly.

Remember BMI?  How many NCMs were punted for BMI?  Then when you went near a HQ, of any size, where was that standard?  In the end when 'Science' came into play, many, if not all, of those folk were re-offered their jobs back.

Such is the 'Circle of Life'.

.........and everyone that got punted for BMI has course for redress. BMI has no status in medical fact. It's an insurance scam, gone out of control.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Where's the fun in that??   ;D

Exactly. If you don't enforce all of the standards equally, the system is a hypocrite, and loses all it's credibility. If you treat one side as the poor cousin, it's entitled to act as the poor cousin, and you cannot bitch about the results.

 

[orange.paint]

Reserves don't have the option of a Reg force PERI, or the new civie equivalent to draw on. We don't have a free gymnasium packed full of TV's and treadmills, trackmasters and dumbells (human and inanimate). If I get hurt , or hit by a car, at 05:00 while humping my ruck, who pays, till I get back to work? Not DND, like you Reg guys. Or better yet, finds me a new job after getting fired because I wasn't at work. Soldier first, suck it up Buttercup, and if you like it, you'll sacrifice for it, are all bullshit answers. Most of us have civvie jobs and families. Reg force have the advantage of daily, organized, worry free, injury taken care of, no career implication PT. We don't. Provide us the means, even playing ground, benefits, legislation, etc and we'll do it. We already work two jobs to your one, don't dare say we're slack and lazy because we don't indulge in the same gratuitous perks that the Regs do. You get your 20-25 days leave with your family. Mine is spent at summer Ex. I have to beg my boss for course time. My wife is pissed because my Brigade can't get the simple fact, that Mother's Day is a stupid time to hold an EX (every year, just like clockwork). I'll do what I can to get and stay fit for the Army, but if your not going to afford me the same benefits, perks and consessions as the Regs, don't dare try and force the same standard. In the end we'll do what we're told, and I suppose this was just for all those sanctimonious greek gods out there. That's my rant, and I doubt I'm done. We'll see.

edit for caveat

that was the second reserve topic mentioned on all these posts.The first was a guy bringing up the point he couldnt use NDHQ gym way back on page 15.We didnt bring it up.And personally I could care less who you work for or what you do,wear a uniform get in shape.Reg guys in the field too much to commit to a regime reserve guys aint covered bla bla bla excuses all around.Oh and by the way I was talking to two class A res guys at the gym two nights ago I know from NFLD.Imagine working out not covered....but it didnt come up in conversation as we had better things to talk about, like drinking beer and working out and life in general.
As recceguy stated though BMI is flawed but body fat analyis is not.Calipers and a psp staff and there you have if your fat or not.No waiting for a pool to be weighted in etc.

 

[54/102 CEF]

.....and I have no argument with that. Except every one of these fitness threads seem to end up taking a decidely Reserve force bent.

Who will see my bet that 15% of the CF can`t pass the Express Test? ATI going in soon.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

that was the second reserve topic mentioned on all these posts.The first was a guy bringing up the point he couldnt use NDHQ gym way back on page 15.We didnt bring it up.And personally I could care less who you work for or what you do,wear a uniform get in shape.Reg guys in the field too much to commit to a regime reserve guys aint covered bla bla bla excuses all around.Oh and by the way I was talking to two class A res guys at the gym two nights ago I know from NFLD.Imagine working out not covered....but it didnt come up in conversation as we had better things to talk about, like drinking beer and working out and life in general.
As recceguy stated though BMI is flawed but body fat analyis is not.Calipers and a psp staff and there you have if your fat or not.No waiting for a pool to be weighted in etc.

Just don't get it do you.

To make it simple for you to understand, once and for all.  The system is flawed, broken, etc. Neither the Reg force nor the Reserves have a lock on physical fitness. There are disparities and unequal application of standards all around. Until you provide EQUAL training, testing, promotion, graduation, compensation, deceleration and motivation, your setting fire to a straw man.

And to put this to rest, and to satisfy your (rcac_011's) curiosity, I have completed every PT test that the military has tossed at me, first time, on the first attempt, since 1968, and continue to do so.

You were a 220 lb pudgy last year. You've improved. Good on you. Others may need better motivation or help. Quit trying to change the world over night. Your ideas have value. Your presentation sucks!!! Get it? This isn't Reg vs Res. It's total force fitness. Pretend that you care about that instead.

 

[orange.paint]

You want coverage for reserve soldiers.In my opinion the most simple way to do it would be to give them free memberships at local gyms and have them sign in to be covered.Seems fairly simple in my mind (seeming it has to be for me to grasp).Reg force  guys bring pt gear and portable showers to the field for morning pt.

Who will see my bet that 15% of the CF can`t pass the Express Test? ATI going in soon.

15%?God I hope not.But I'm going to shoot for 10%.

Just don't get it do you.

There are disparities and unequal application of standards all around. Until you provide EQUAL training, testing, promotion, graduation, compensation, deceleration and motivation, your setting fire to a straw man.

If you want to look at the morning PT standards for 2 rcr compared to the armoured school it would fit this statement.The fact is all armoured school pers must pass the bft or express which is weak but provides the same testing all around.The standard is there.Training will never be EQUAL.I'm RCD in Gagetown and PT at the regiment is extremely different than the school morning training.Compensation has been covered earlier in my post by getting troops to sign in.Motivation is being a soldier.Pride in the uniform and pride in yourself.Motivation is your career progression or lack there of due to fitness.

Do I really care about total force fitness?Of course not.Those members who do not pass basic military testing will not be doing tours.Or on tasking without passing.Therefor Its not a problem I will ever have to come in contact with.So I instead direct my attention to the regular force,where the problem is just as large.

 

[orange.paint]

So Recceguy my questions to you would be.

How do you want the reserves to be covered?

Morning PT I know is not a option,how about signing into the local gym or into he armouries to work out?

How long should these fat POS be given to get into shape?

Is one annual reporting period enough?Should they all be exempt this year?

And for the reg guys who get this coverage and morning PT should they be booted NOW?

they have been given the tools for years,why keep them here now after they blaintly ignored the aspect of physical fitness.

 

[Haggis]

You want coverage for reserve soldiers.In my opinion the most simple way to do it would be to give them free memberships at local gyms and have them sign in to be covered.

Who pays for this?

-Reseve units?  Most have around $15-30K of unfunded non-deliverables every year as it is.
-CFPSA?  Most civvy contracted CF gyms (at least in the NCR) either harshly limit or deny entry to Class A members
-Support base?  Possibly, but will recover the cost from the Reserve unit's O&M.

in any case, throwing Class A money at the problem might work, assuming the money existed in the first place (which is usually doesn't).

I'm hoping the the new DAOD on fitness will address pension coverage for "off duty" (i.e not signed in) Reservists doing PT.  Not holding my breath, though.