New CF Fitness Policies Coming

[54/102 CEF]

Bike - Walk - JOg - Roller Blade - Pushups - situps - repeat

Doesn`t have to be boring - take dog for a little run - meet the neighbours - promote CF - now you`re a fit ambassador!

Here`s the link for the beep test music

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/1_19RNSWR/fitness.htm --- look in bottom right hand corner - enjoy!

 

[GO!!!]

I still believe that there is no reason that we can't ask reservists to be in good enough shape to do the BFT/express test.

These are bare bones, threshold standards. They don't require any special training or equipment to pass, and most reasonably fit people can do them.

I also believe that while reservists may not be party to our generous "perks", they have others, like the ability to say;

"Sorry about that sir, but I'm just not going to be able to go on that 3 week dismounted winter patrol ex, I have work/school/other to do"

There are many reg force soldiers that would love to do this - but it is not one of our "perks".

This is an issue of give and take. You (reservists) get to choose which training you would like to do, in accordance with your career (military and civilian) and life goals.

You chose not to make this a full time career, so why should you be party to full time benefits?

No one is demanding that you finish the mountain man here, just a 2 hour walk with a ruck and a quick jog in a gym. Bare bones.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We should be fit enough, agreed. However, I don't ever recall saying we wouldn't or couldn't do the BFT or Express, just that if we are hurt doing the mandatory work up, we shoud be compensated somehow, as this training will be done on our own time and the injury could affect our civil employment and wage. Don't forget also, if I do a weekend ex it also equates to two weeks straight work, just with two different employers, not one. We'll never reach conscenus on it. Each force has it's niche and needs, but if things are going to be standardized and have career implications across the board, the playing field for that program should be level. Just my $00.02

 

[Haggis]

I still believe that there is no reason that we can't ask reservists to be in good enough shape to do the BFT/express test.

It's coming.

These are bare bones, threshold standards. They don't require any special training or equipment to pass, and most reasonably fit people can do them.

I know many Reservists who do the BFT regularly, simply because they are students/young parents who can't afford a gym membership.

I also believe that while reservists may not be party to our generous "perks"...

Disability and loss of earnings protection is not a "perk".

... they have others, like the ability to say;

"Sorry about that sir, but I'm just not going to be able to go on that 3 week dismounted winter patrol ex, I have work/school/other to do"

There are many reg force soldiers that would love to do this - but it is not one of our "perks".

But they still do it: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40546.0.html

We should be fit enough, agreed. However, I don't ever recall saying we wouldn't or couldn't do the BFT or Express, just that if we are hurt doing the mandatory work up, we shoud be compensated somehow, as this training will be done on our own time and the injury could affect our civil employment and wage.

As I said earlier:

If a Reg F guy is hurt doing "self supervised" PT on his own time he is eligible for medical coverage, doesn't lose his pay or benefits while he recuperates and can qualify for a diability pension if he's no longer employable.

If a Res F guy gets hurt doing "self supervised" PT on his own time he has none of that.

Is your coverage for self supervised PT considered another perk, GO!!!? Or is it just fair protection in the spirit of the Chief of Military Personnel's vision to "Look after our people, invest in them and give them confidence in the future." (http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/engraph/missionvision_e.asp) I don't see any distinction in that statement between Reg F or Res F.

Don't forget also, if I do a weekend ex it also equates to two weeks straight work, just with two different employers, not one.

A Class A Infantry WO who works for me has, between unit training, two brigade ex's, teaching a weekend PLQ, Professional Development and his civvy job, worked five straight weeks (with two more to go).  He commutes two hours each way to his civvy job and another hour to the unit.  He's also doing PT six days a week as part of his CSM's "Fitness Challenge".  No extra leave, money or "perks".  All he wants is due consideration and protection as is afforded to his Reg F counterparts. This costs no extra money or time, just a bit of understanding on the part of all involved.
 

We'll never reach conscenus on it. Each force has it's niche and needs, but if things are going to be standardized and have career implications across the board, the playing field for that program should be level. Just my $00.02

That, gents, was my point.

 

[orange.paint]

Reserves don't have the option of a Reg force PERI, or the new civilian equivalent to draw on. We don't have a free gymnasium packed full of TVs and treadmills, trackmasters and dumbells (human and inanimate). edit for caveat

Its called outside running.push ups can be completed without a lot of equipment. chin-up bars can be found anywhere.Not on a base? nail one to a tree or buy one at walmart for a door jam 27 dollars.Sounds like your angry reg force guys got it "cushy."If you decided to be a reservist,and your civilian job is so great buy a gym membership.We pay for ours with time,you pay for yours with cash.As for dumbells...yep they must be stupid,working out and looking after themselves.Why would a man do that?To benefit himself and the army..when he could be looking for excuses not to.


"Soldier first, suck it up Buttercup, and if you like it, you'll sacrifice for it, are all bullshit answers. Most of us have civi jobs and families. Reg force have the advantage of daily, organized, worry free, injury taken care of, no career implication PT".

If I break my back doing a recce competition i get put on category...oh no ..no career implications there :.yes recceguy some reg force guys have families too,we decide the small scarfice of lets say 7-9pm working out supersedes the "daddy's not coming home "due to his poor physical condition.As for daily PT hahahaha!We do that working thing too but ours is all army not just part time.We do the be out in P.V by 5hoo and leaving at 6-7 at night to come home...then its your responsibility to do it on your time.Sort of what you poor reservist go through is it not?

"Provide us the means, even playing ground, benefits, legislation, etc and we'll do it. We already work two jobs to your one, don't dare say we're slack and lazy because we don't indulge in the same gratuitous perks that the Regs do. "

You apparently are slack and lazy.All I'm hearing is excuses.I hope they do give you guys an even ground.I hope they implement higher PT levels for reserves,hey and maybe test you guys on a monthly basis.You guys do have the harder life working at sobeys between parade nights.And as for perks...you can put a memo in to get on the new tf to Afghanistan,volunteer for jobs/choose jobs in the army,decide to get an education while reg guys gotta do this all at night (the horror).

"You get your 20-25 days leave with your family. Mine is spent at summer Ex. I have to beg my boss for course time. My wife is pissed because my Brigade can't get the simple fact, that Mother's Day is a stupid time to hold an EX (every year, just like clockwork). "

Oh my god.Mothers day...the horror.That is the the most lame complaint I have ever heard.How does a Brigade commander sleep at night knowing your mother is out there crying her eyes out cause little her poor son had to go play army for 2 weeks.Give me a break.We have worked through Easter,Christmas etc who cares. Your in the army.Those guys in Iraq have missed mothers day as well and would proably laugh at your bullshit bitching about it.I get 25 days off,you can choose to work when you want.

"I'll do what I can to get and stay fit for the Army, but if your not going to afford me the same benefits, perks and consessions as the Regs, don't dare try and force the same standard. In the end we'll do what we're told, and I suppose this was just for all those sanctimonious Greek gods out there. That's my rant, and I doubt I'm done. We'll see".

You'll do as directed by higher.And I hope those three dragoons at the top end push the pressure down on the army in general.If you don't want the same standard why in other post are you bitching about the "total force concept"?You choose to be a reserve deal with it.

sanctimonious Greek gods..sounds like your the one that should be worshipped.The soldier who isn't covered by the army for PT,works another job besides his part time voluntary commitment to the army.Had to work mothers day more than two years in a row.

People wake the frig up.Germany is over.We are actually in a war against terror.Put your beer down get the frig out and make way for the next group of soldiers who realise fitness and soldiering go hand in hand not being drunk pretending the Russians are making the advance.(refering to recceguy not all our cold war vets).

SO even though recceguy jumped on this tread to make it ABOUT reserves,it's not.Its about fitness and directives from higher.
Bruce left to go find the gym(or looking down for his penis) so lets get it back on track.

 

[GO!!!]

How many reservists get hurt doing PT anyway?

Has one ever had a pension denied because of it?

When/where/who?

So much of this appears to me to be in the realm of theory, I'm tempted to dismiss all/most of it. I fail to see how one could garner a lifelong injury by walking for two hours.

I think reservists want to have their cake and eat it too. None of the full time commitment, all of the full time benefits, only put your uniform on when you want to. Minimum fitness is a basic human responsibility, not something your casual - time employer should have to assume unlimited liability for. Sounds like a system ripe for abuse to me.

recceguy, you seem to harbour so much anger and resentment towards the regs, why did you ever get out?

By your assertations about our generous perks, cushy jobs, ample leave and otherwise worry - free employment, I would have thought that you would have ridden this green gravy train for at least a few more years...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Finally got out the dictionary and found out what sanctimonious meant eh?

Anyway, I tried to make a point. Haggis did it much more eloquently. However, I see that you still got your blinders on and insist on perpetuating the points we moved past and the ones you yourself are condemning and accusing me of.

Watch that soap box when you step off. It's getting pretty high.

GO!!!,

With your well know anti Reserve bias, it's not even worth entering into a discussion with you about it. What you percieve as me being anti Reg couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I think reservists want to have their cake and eat it too. None of the full time commitment, all of the full time benefits, only put your uniform on when you want to

:rofl:

this is gonna be good one to watch.....

dileas

tess

 

[orange.paint]

Finally got out the dictionary and found out what sanctimonious meant eh?

Yes sure did.Most of us are having a hard time getting an education in english,working and all.

Anyway, I tried to make a point. Haggis did it much more eloquently. However, I see that you still got your blinders on and insist on perpetuating the points we moved past and the ones you yourself are condemning and accusing me of.

Your comments have added nothing to the thread.Maybe start one about reserves being covered after hours,that is not what this tread is about.You are contributing nothing but how well an 50 year old man can spell.Blinders are on low standards,when  the directives are coming...you have not been contributing to this tread until your brethren Bruce was mouthing off and most likely PMed you to "help out".Read back a few pages,this wasn't about reserves until you made it and thus continue.

Watch that soap box when you step off. It's getting pretty high.

can you actually lift a soap box anymore?by the sounds of things the man who once lifted centurion rounds isn't a pillar of fitness anymore.Directives will be pushed,people will listen or get the hell out of thisarmy I still have a little pride in.

GO!!!,

With your well know anti Reserve bias, it's not even worth entering into a discussion with you about it. What you perceive as me being anti Reg couldn't be further from the truth.

It's pers like yourself recceguy who make people angry at reservist.As I alluded to earlier read back..it wasn't about reserves until you made it.As for you being anti regs I believe you are a opportunist,like they paycheck but don't want to do the work a soldier has to namely PT.Or why would you be cutting bullshit excuses.Why not head back to the forum and start a "I had to work mothers day" or "fuck working out if I ain't covered" and leave this forum for people fitness minded and as one poster stated representing the cf.Right now it's cancer like yourself destroying the image and young minds here in the cf. Notice how I never classified reg/res that's because I don't care as long as your fit.


maybe take out your dictionary and look up fitness,or get out and let other young leaders who are gung-ho take your wasted position.

 

[Haggis]

How many reservists get hurt doing PT anyway?

I know of three, personally, all of whom ended up being medically released.  One, a CWO, had to give up a rather well paying civvy job as a result.

Has one ever had a pension denied because of it?

Read my earlier post.  A Reservist doing PT on his own time (i.e. not signed in, not on duty etc.etc.) is not eligible for pension coverage.  The injury was not suffered in the service of HRH. 

So much of this appears to me to be in the realm of theory, I'm tempted to dismiss all/most of it. I fail to see how one could garner a lifelong injury by walking for two hours.

How about getting hit by a car?  Blowing your knee out running?  Falling down an ice-covered hill while snowshoeing?  Ruck marching for two hours isn't the ONLY worthwhile form of PT y'know.

I think reservists want to have their cake and eat it too. None of the full time commitment, all of the full time benefits, only put your uniform on when you want to.

I don't think you grasp the level of commitment of many Reservists.  In return all the average Reservists wants is fair treatment.  They already get paid 15% less that the Reg F, why screw them over even harder, particularly the dedicated ones (they do exist!). 

In many of your posts, you make it sound like ALL Reservists are soft go wanna-be's who stay in front of the TV when the weather turns bad or there's a new episode of "Over There" airing rather than go "training".

I'm curious.  Why is this?

 

[orange.paint]

Read recceguys post haggis and that's why GO!! responds as he do.
I personally cannot comprehend a snr NCO speaking as he does.It does nothing for the troops below him and nothing for the young guys reading this board.

discusting.
Lets get back to fitness/directives and leave this reservist thing for the messes somewhere shall we?

if you don't have something constructive to the fitness or information of higher directives post elsewhere....this from MODS :

 

[GO!!!]

Riiiight.

Here we go again.

recceguy: All reg force members are ignorant, unedu-macated slobs engaging in a form of uniformed welfare, their jobs are too easy, and their benefits too generous.

GO: reservists complain too much, and get to pick and choose their taskings while demanding full time benefits

tess/recceguy/O'leary et al: LOOK - A MO HATER - LET'S GET 'IM BOYS

 

[the 48th regulator]

Riiiight.

Here we go again.

All reg force members are ignorant, unedu-macated slobs engaging in a form of uniformed welfare, their jobs are too easy, and their benefits too generous.

finally you are learning....

dig for dig for dig....

dileas

tes

 

[geo]

How many reservists get hurt doing PT anyway?

Has one ever had a pension denied because of it?

When/where/who?

So much of this appears to me to be in the realm of theory, I'm tempted to dismiss all/most of it. I fail to see how one could garner a lifelong injury by walking for two hours.
I

Go, it just so happens that I work in the shop that, amongst other things, looks after injuries, indemnity requests & the like. I could provide you with several names........
There aare a whole bunch of stupid reasons for the problems to have happened - the point is; It's happened.

 

[54/102 CEF]

All

45 mins in the gym on a 20 m track three times a week and minimize the Timbits will get you past your Express Test.

So get going and ceasefire. Says more about the writers than the readers.

We have too much to gain together to waste time on pokey chest games.

 

[orange.paint]

Second that.
the timbits I mean ;D.

 

[Haggis]

All

45 mins in the gym on a 20 m track three times a week and minimize the Timbits will get you past your Express Test.

So get going and ceasefire. Says more about the writers than the readers.

We have too much to gain together to waste time on pokey chest games.

Thread killer!  ;D

Agreed.  A bunch of us have dragged this off topic (including me  :-[.).  But in doing so we've found topics for at least two other threads.  That's gotta count for something!

 

[orange.paint]

Now haggis you said the directives were coming down,what directive is this?
also whats the deal with A class reserve will they be tested?

 

[Haggis]

Now haggis you said the directives were coming down,what directive is this?
also whats the deal with A class reserve will they be tested?

Waaaay back on page 1 of this thread is the text of CANFORGEN 198/05.  It states that two new DAODs (which are slowly replacing CFAOs) will be issued stating how and when CF members will be tested and outlining the consequences of failure.  The new DAOD on promotion policy will state that you must have a valid fitness test pass in order to be promoted.

Although it hasn't been published yet, my spies tell me that Class A Reservists will be held to the same standards as Reg F, Class B and C Reservists.

It's important that we don't go the route some units took in the 90's with the Warrior programme.  The Reserves lost a lot of otherwise good soldiers because the Warrior fitness standard was applied in a draconain way, without allowing the unfit soldier time or opportunity to meet the standard.  It was "meet it now or get out".

It's also importnant to realize that in both componenets there are folks who's only PT is chasing the chip truck.  This new DAOD is intended to give them the head slap they need to make thier own life and career choices.  Whether those are positive or negative is up to the individual.

 

[Journeyman]

We have too much to gain together to waste time on pokey chest games.

Done properly (always use strict form when working out), pokey chest does exercise the triceps. Chucking the timbits down your neck will provide balance in working the biceps. There's still a requirement for cardio though.....are there posted standards for this "running after chip truck"? 

Been civie, RegF, Res....more than once each. There's fit & fat in all three elements - - it's a personal choice. Personally, I'd rather go for a run than waste time flaming others1

_________________
1 OK, some dopey posters in other threads (usually recurring offenders) get sarcasm; but that's still not flame  ;D