National military physical-fitness test fails 1,000 people: report

[aesop081]

Dont really have a beef persay with the exempt level, just personal opinion. I agree completely with recceguy, i may not have anything to substaniate my opinions but perhaps modifing the fitness standards to better reflect physical aptitude within the course of duty would be better overall. I know that they set up the fitness levels as a basis to reflect on a soldiers ability to do other things like dig a trench and ruck march, but does it really compare? I cannot answer that as you all have pointed out.

Not that it may pertain to the CF, but this is a general statement. Personally I believe that if a standard is set then it should be maintained by everyone underneath the umbrella, I don't personally believe in an exception rule. I know some organizations will allow certain employees to slide on certain standards as they may not necessarily pertain to the job that employee is employed for, However you should always make it a point to know the job of the man above you in the chain , and to teach your job to the man below you in the chain.

Thats more than enough out of you.......

Get some time in and get back to us

 

[retiredgrunt45]

I've never agreed that the Express Test is an indicator of the the soldier's capability. To many road runners can jog their asses off and do some push ups, but can't go a couple of klicks with a ruck, weapon and helmet. The Express is a bullshit test designed to let people that can't BFT get advanced. The Express does nothing but employ a bunch of civvies, and shows no results. Fire them all, ruck up and pass, or fail. My personal $00.02.

I'm also stuck,inherentley, to that idea, so I won't debate it, or change my mind. The BFT isn't that hard. If you can't do it, you shouldn't be in uniform.

I agree, the standard of an infantry soldier should be the 2X10 and good obsticale coarse and some range work, "bring it back", this express test crap is just that, crap. I've known runners who could run for miles with nothing on their backs, but once you weighed them down with a 60lb ruck, webbing, personal weapon and a few ammo boxes, they we're dead on their feet, let alone giving them a heavy weapon to carry, they just didn't have the stamina.  I've seen big guys on 2X10's, walk circles around these marathon runners after only a few miles into the test. After all a soldier doesn't go into battle in a pair of Adidas running shoes and shorts and a water bottle.

I see nothing has changed, sad actually.

The media is having a hayday with this one.

 

[armyvern]

they have lowered the standards and people are still failing.. that is not good at all.

i think they should abolish the ability to be excused from testing for a determined amount of time due to performance on a previous fitness test.

Here's the word (& ergo why people have told you to zip it) ...

A great number of those article-reported exemptions are from Land Forces.

We do the LFC fitness test (actually hump the ruck, carry the pers, do the digging) rather than as the article states:

The 30-minute fitness test, in place since 1990, is designed to predict whether serving members can carry out five basic military tasks, including digging a trench and hauling a sandbag.

When we sucessfully complete the LFC testing, we receive an "exemption" standard on our annual PER (where they pulled the stats for the article from). Despite this "exemption" standard from next years testing -- we, in LFC, do this test each year.

Here's a couple pics of my ass digging just a couple weeks ago. This spring, I'll be doing it again.

 

[yak]

This type of discussion always turns into a "the EXPRES test is meaningless" arguement.  However, wrt the original post saying that there are a lot of people failing it in Esquimalt, I have a couple points, in no particular order.

1) it's bloody hard to maintain, let alone build fitness while deployed on a ship.  Not impossible, but hard.  Especially when you're not in sheltered waters or calm seas (and not in some form of sonar quiet).

2) When it's an issue of getting a ship ready for sea, often the maintainer trades (can't speak for the others) have very little tolerance for time off.  I've seen that from both sides, as a subordinate who didn't get the time off and as a supervisor stuck between dismantled equipment, a 0800 sailing time the coming Monday, and subordinates who want to head off for PT during the work day.  Sadly, I've jammed those requests and I'd probably do it again.

3) I do my PT in the dockyard gym either in the morning before or in the afternoon after secure.  I've decided that I'd rather spend my own time instead of making my regular work more difficult by being absent during the day doing PT.  That probably contributes to the problem, which is to some extent, cultural in the Navy.  If I don't take time off for PT am I discouraging people from doing so?  Probably.  Am I setting the example that one should be using their own time for PT, not unit time?  Maybe.  I don't mean to.  If I have ability to let someone go for PT I do...but all too often I can't, else the work would not get done.

The Navy less fit than the rest?  Yes I think so.  It has improved vastly from ten or fifteen years ago though.

And as far as the Expres test goes, it's a nice couple hours off the ship once a year.  There is apparently some scientific backing into its methods, but it doesn't appear to have much relation to real life, much less to the life of a military person (especially the combat arms, from most of the people I've talked to, or seen post here).  But the fact of the matter is that there are too many people who can't even pass Expres without talking about revising and changing the test into something more relevant (and presumably more difficult).  Sad but true.

Oh, as far as exemptions are concerned, if someone gets an exempt they are likely not the person whose fitness level needs monitoring.  Let it go, they are keeping themselves fit on their own.  The problem is the people for whom the walk across the brow is their daily workout, on the way to the port breezeway.

I finally had the pleasure of doing the BFT this spring, it wasn't bad.  I thought it would be more challenging, somehow.

 

[armyvern]

Agreed Yak.

At some Units, due to Op tempo, manning shortages etc etc -- it becomes more difficult to maintain and allow for a regimented PT schedule within working hours.

During my years with the Navy (in Halifax), we did have deciated Unit PT in the mornings; I'm not sure if that's still the case there though.

In Trenton, we also had dedicated Unit PT 3 mornings a week -- and a very good program at that. Of course, with the increase in the Op Tempo we saw an increasing number of personnel who had to be at their jobs instead -- because work requirements demanded it. If they weren't in an essential spot needed at their desk/wherever during that PT time, they were at PT. Trenton also happens to be where I completed the only two CF Express tests of my career. I made it well into the 'exemption' standard each time (that shuttle run justs irritates me though  ) !!

I'm interested to know whether you completed the whole Army Fitness Test or just the 13km BFT portion? Did you do the trench dig as well? I too, find the 13km march less challenging than it could be. Some people can hump rucks without difficulty -- others can't. By the same token -- some people can run their asses off while others, like me, .... just plod along. I'm no runner. I'd much rather hump my ruck 20km, than run 2. I try to stick to the pool for cardio -- nice 2400-3000m swims a few times a week work well for that too. As does circuit trg each Wednesday with aerobics during lunch.

If people want to maintain their fitness levels -- they'll make it happen.

Sadly, it would seem that the whole reason the CDS instituted his new policy was due to those who weren't maintaining their fitness levels for whatever reason -- and weren't about to 'make it happen' without being directed to do so.

 

[yak]

There's a digging portion to the test?!

Busted.  They don't do that on the left coast I'm told, just the fireman carry.  So it's way easy (although the 250 pounder was an issue, by the end).  I got my just desserts in Valcartier later in the spring.  Doing the BFT complete was a little more difficult, but adding strength tests were not really too bad, I'm normally deployed as the departmental forklift when stores arrives on the jetty anyway.  Certain body types lend themselves to that type of work.

But I'm not much of a runner.

Like most people I know a few who rejoice at any reason to miss a fitness test.  My favorite was "my blood pressure is so high, I haven't done the Express for five years!"  That guy has subsequently been released after being accomodated for several years.

How about BMI?  That didn't work for me - I'm a 30, maybe 31, there was no end to the trouble prior to the step test.  Had to see the MO a couple times before they finally canned that program.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Without defending some of the "heftier" members of the West Coast fleet, I too have to echo that the PSP staff at Esquimalt were absolute fanatics about form on pushups- your arms had to be exactly 90 degrees to the ground; you had to pause for just the right amount of time between pushups; your hands had to be exactly in the right spot in relation to your chest or it did not count.  Even I, a graduate of the CF Pushup Academy (Basic Para  )  thought that it was overly picky and missed the more general point about upper body strength vs contorting your body into a shape that it was not used to. 

 

[armyvern]

There's a digging portion to the test?!

Busted.  ...

Doing the BFT complete was a little more difficult, but adding strength tests were not really too bad, I'm normally deployed as the departmental forklift when stores arrives on the jetty anyway.  Certain body types lend themselves to that type of work.

...

There's a 6 minute max time limit on the dig. Your note above tells me you'd have no problem whipping my 2m4s time.

Why can't you be deployed where I am when I need to set up and locate a warehouse in some austere location?? 

 

[geo]

As indicated earlier, iln LFQA, we are provided 1 hr per day for PPT during working hours.
- We are required to participate 3 to 4 days per week
- Fri: Team sports - All area HQ personnel
- One branch activity per week - again - team sports
- Two individual PT sessions per week...

Last spring, I was with one group that did the BFT.  Out of 90 people who started, 87 completed.
Of those who failed, 1 was due to dehydration, 1 was due to a "blown" ankle and the last was due to a cardiac rythm problem.....
As of last Friday, 2 of said 3 completed their BFT with no difficulty.

Does the BFT mean you are "combat ready"?... of course not.  That's what we have the IBTS for.

 

[yak]

PSP folks in Wpg were pretty touchy a few years back for push ups too, to the point of holding a ruler under your chest for some people.  I've also had that in Esq, but not so much.  It comes down to personality of the tester.  If you're having trouble doing your minimums you seem to get more attention, if the person blasts through 40 or more in decent form and they don't say much. 

While I was working RSS a few years ago I was appalled at the number of reservists who failed Expres, and more often than not it was situps, not pushups (but there were a fair number for that).  I thought it was such a shame that a person that young could not do basic exercises, and had such a poor overall level of fitness.  A couple of the people I'm thinking about didn't even actually look that out of shape, but they were very, very soft, apparently.  Beyond the service implications I find it just sad that such a low level of fitness is normal to some people.  I take for granted a certain level of physical ability, I suppose I should not.

Can you imagine not being able to do situps?  No core strength, and my back hurts just thinking about it.  It also hurts thinking about not being posted to Vern's warehouse, thank you very much.  I didn't say I liked it  .

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

For Mr Boyd, the people who get the Exempt level are not the people you need to worry about.  They get that level out of pride, not to get out of doing the test next year.  The article you are reading is based on an access to information request and needs some context and analysis. I've done the Express Test once, and to be honest I think that it does provide a good indication of fitness and it is rather simple to conduct.  The BFT has always seemd to be more about having your feet in good shape and then tuning out for two hours or so.

Regarding the US Army Annual Personal Fitness Test it has been ten years since I took it down there.  The 2 Mile run, pushups and situps was also a relatively easy test to conduct and gave a fairly good indication of fitness level.  What I really admired about the US Army's personal fitness standard, however, was how they enforced it.  If you failed you got one warning and a retest.  Fail it again and you were out.  That one warning was your one warning for your career.  I'm not sure how it is enforced today, and to be fair the mid-90s were a period of massive personnel cuts in the US Army so the fitness test may have been a simple way to cull the herd.  Still, I liked how they had a policy and enforced it.  It seems that we are now beginning to enforce our policies up here, and that is a good thing.

 

[Haggis]

Clearly, something needs to change.

The general attitude towards fitness here is "Do it on your own time".  That's not a very good way to do business IMO.  PT needs to be done at the departmental or Unit level.  Time needs to be allotted, and there has to be programs in place.

Things are changing.  Any CO/civilian manager who is slavishly sticking to the "do it on your own time" approach to PT must read chapter 22 of the CDS's Guidance to Commanding Officers, with specific emphasis on paragraph 2203.

 

[geo]

From a leaders's perspective.... imagine:
- you tell all your staff that they have to do their PT on their own time.  At the same time, you load em up with work so that they can't practicaly hit the gym, unless super motivated  AND THEN
come annual fitness time, almost everyone tanks and fails the fitness test...

So the supervisor starts going thru the remedial process; initial, written warnings followed by C&P all the while, following a remedial PT program hatched by the PSP guys... so fitness levels tank AND productivity in the department tanks as well.....

Does note bode well for said supervisor's PER

Better for him to encourage PT.  Staff will be in a better position to get their work on time.

But that's just me

 

[Haggis]

As an NDHQ staff weenie, I have seen the detrimental effects of HQ life on fitness.  Too many times the CF member is working for a civilian (as am I) who only sees an hour of productivity walking out the door when a member goes for PT. The civilian insists that fitness is an employee's personal responsibility and therefore fitness should be maintained on personal time.

For that reason I heartily cheer the CDS's 2007 Direction to Commanding Officers, particularly paragraph 2203.5 which states (in part) that "the mantra of 'PT on your own time' is to be eliminated".

Even so, there are many in HQs of all levels that use this as an excuse to not even attempt to do PT.  They are the ones who should be targeted.  Leave those alone who at least make the effort.

 

[COBRA-6]

And remember the CF EXPRES test is the BARE MINIMUM, not the standard to shoot for! Ditto for the BFT...

I would hope that with the combat experience that the Army and CF are gaining in Afghanistan the requirement for a higher level of fitness would be recognized and the stadard raised in the near future...

 

[X-mo-1979]

Too bad my boss doesnt read this stuff.Although PT really does need to be done on our own time as well,I agree that alot of time we are sent home after a 12 hour day to do our uniforms,eat supper,and go to the gym for an hour.Which in turn ends up leaving no time with family at all except for the weekends.Sometimes it just doesnt seem worth while wasting my time when the army makes it as difficult as possiable.

Now add in a couple nights when you have work you need to take home as well....and pt goes out the window.

What really pain's me is the amount of sitting around we do in a run of a day,or useless stuff better known as make work projects.There is no reason we cannot have pt once a day.From my view anyway.

 

[a_majoor]

Random observation:

Way back when, the BFT was the "2 X 10". The first day you marched 10 miles (@ 16 km), then you had to drop the ruck, scale a 6' wall, jump a 6' trench (sometimes just marked out by minetape is a real trench or ditch was not handy), and THEN did a 100m fireman's carry with someone of similar weight. All these evolutions were done wearing webbing and carrying a rifle.

The second day, you did this all over again; although the second march was in light order (webbing only).

Part of the problem is there really is no standardization except for the Expres test; where do you say the Cooper Test is more valid than digging several cubic metres of gravel out of a plywood box?

Do we really have the time and resources to get and maintain a high level of fitness for 100% of CF members? Do we need every clerk and Sup Tech to be able to leap over their desk and engage in combat at any time, or is it more sensible to build up fitness during the work up training? (this is a rhetorical question, BTW)

 

[medaid]

Ruck or die. Regardless of element and trade. True that a Navy pers will probably never ever have to ruck or dig shell scrapes, but one standard for all. Thaks the Army me talking though.

 

[COBRA-6]

Do we really have the time and resources to get and maintain a high level of fitness for 100% of CF members? Do we need every clerk and Sup Tech to be able to leap over their desk and engage in combat at any time, or is it more sensible to build up fitness during the work up training? (this is a rhetorical question, BTW)

Ahh, but what if there is no time for work-up training? Not all of life's events fit within the Army Managed Readiness Plan  

 

[GAP]

As someone who, by the very nature of their MOS, was a REMF in a combat zone (for those times when we couldn't get outside the wire on other pretenses), being fit, no matter what, served its'  purpose.

Running to the wire for and during attacks, digging foxholes, carrying ammo, etc....it all came into play....neither I, or any of us said, "Well, that's for the grunts"....everybody is a grunt first, something else second.

Strange how stuff like that always happens when you least expect it.... :