Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW

[suffolkowner]

Has anyone been able to find a hint as to what Armatec is submitting for consideration?

Im not sure where the project is now as I think the 2 parts have been split off from each other another do over?
500 ish replacements for the Milverado and
1500 replacements for the Gwagen

 

[PrairieFella]

Im not sure where the project is now as I think the 2 parts have been split off from each other another do over?
500 ish replacements for the Milverado and
1500 replacements for the Gwagen

That's accurate I believe, I'm just wondering if Armatec has mentioned who they may be working with anywhere, I'm curious who they partner with since they're an armour company primarily.

 

[suffolkowner]

That's accurate I believe, I'm just wondering if Armatec has mentioned who they may be working with anywhere, I'm curious who they partner with since they're an armour company primarily.

I wonder if Armatec is even in the running anymore? Does everyone get a redo? Or is it the same bidders that were qualified before for both
Oshkosh
AM General
Roshel
Armatec

 

[Maxman1]

Im not sure where the project is now as I think the 2 parts have been split off from each other another do over?
500 ish replacements for the Milverado and
1500 replacements for the Gwagen

Interesting that that's the same number for the Zetros purchase. It's like they're deliberately buying less than we need for some reason.

 

[suffolkowner]

Interesting that that's the same number for the Zetros purchase. It's like they're deliberately buying less than we need for some reason.

LSVS 2879 to 1022
MSVS ?? to 1300
MSVS-SMP ?? to 1587
HSVS+ 1300+ to 512
LUVW 1061 to 450
LUVW-SMP 1159 to 1500

approximate numbers, huge drop in LSVS numbers, HSVS numbers down but maybe made up for by larger MSVS. What were the MLVW?

 

[Furniture]

LSVS 2879 to 1022
MSVS ?? to 1300
MSVS-SMP ?? to 1587
HSVS+ 1300+ to 512
LUVW 1061 to 450
LUVW-SMP 1159 to 1500

approximate numbers, huge drop in LSVS numbers, HSVS numbers down but maybe made up for by larger MSVS. What were the MLVW?

That was something I had been thinking about a bit. The vehicles have been getting larger, so there is likely a certain point where less works, and I think some newer vehicles aren't a direct replacement for older vehicles.

 

[suffolkowner]

That was something I had been thinking about a bit. The vehicles have been getting larger, so there is likely a certain point where less works, and I think some newer vehicles aren't a direct replacement for older vehicles.

From 7029 to 4334 is quite a drop overall assuming that the MLVW to MSVS numbers are equivalent. The decrease in the LSVS really stands out

 

[Furniture]

From 7029 to 4334 is quite a drop overall assuming that the MLVW to MSVS numbers are equivalent. The decrease in the LSVS really stands out

Are some of the old MLVW roles goin to the new LUVW-SMP, and some of the old LSVS roles going to the LVT?

I'm not disputing that there is an overall drop in numbers, I'm just wondering if some of that is being picked up by the larger vehicles, and new types coming in.

 

[suffolkowner]

Are some of the old MLVW roles goin to the new LUVW-SMP, and some of the old LSVS roles going to the LVT?

I'm not disputing that there is an overall drop in numbers, I'm just wondering if some of that is being picked up by the larger vehicles, and new types coming in.

the vehicles look bigger, do they have a higher payload?

 

[Furniture]

the vehicles look bigger, do they have a higher payload?

It's my understanding that overall they have higher payloads, but I'm not an expert. My days of driving and working on army cars are long ago, and far away.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Classic Canadian procurement, 1 for 2 vehicles. Yes tonnage capacity might be the same, but if you have one big truck goes down or is blown up, you lost the equivalent of two vehicle. Plus regardless on carrying capacity, 1 vehicle can't be in two different places at once. Plus it's very clear in Peer to peer war, trucks are a consumable item.

 

[suffolkowner]

Classic Canadian procurement, 1 for 2 vehicles. Yes tonnage capacity might be the same, but if you have one big truck goes down or is blown up, you lost the equivalent of two vehicle. Plus regardless on carrying capacity, 1 vehicle can't be in two different places at once. Plus it's very clear in Peer to peer war, trucks are a consumable item.

smaller army though? less people = less trucks?

 

[Maxman1]

Sounds like a classic politician excuse for doing the bare minimum to look like they're doing anything. "It has twice the payload, do we can buy half as many!"

 

[McG]

A lot of mature projects had their budgets decided before COVID when project staff expressed scepticism that Russia would ever start “a real war” in Europe. These projects would have been defined when the CA trimmed requirements to fit the anticipated budget, and they would have subsequently transitioned to the newer “fixed budget approach” where deliverables are shaved-off as delay & inflation reduce buying power.

When Russia launched its current war in Ukraine, there was a moment where the Army asked “has the situation changed” and then spooled up several new projects. But the question was not asked for all the in-progress projects, so they continue along with pre-COVID scope and a foundational premise that our next big missions might look something like Afghanistan in another part of the world. We were able to fight the Taliban with a resource anorexic army at home.

 

[Kirkhill]

I guess I will remain confused.

Roshel Senator - armoured 4x4 in the 7 tonne range
Bushmaster - armoured 4x4 in the 15 tonne range (being offered for the British Medium programme

The Bushmaster: From protective troop transport to firepower in global defence

With more than 1,000 units in service across nine countries, the Bushmaster vehicle stands out for its protective capabilities.

www.forcesnews.com

 

[PrairieFella]

I guess I will remain confused.

Roshel Senator - armoured 4x4 in the 7 tonne range
Bushmaster - armoured 4x4 in the 15 tonne range (being offered for the British Medium programme

The Bushmaster: From protective troop transport to firepower in global defence

With more than 1,000 units in service across nine countries, the Bushmaster vehicle stands out for its protective capabilities.

www.forcesnews.com

Confused about?

 

[Kirkhill]

Confused about?

When an armoured vehicle is a logistics vehicle versus a fighting vehicle.

 

[KevinB]

That was something I had been thinking about a bit. The vehicles have been getting larger, so there is likely a certain point where less works, and I think some newer vehicles aren't a direct replacement for older vehicles.

LSVS 2879 to 1022
MSVS ?? to 1300
MSVS-SMP ?? to 1587
HSVS+ 1300+ to 512
LUVW 1061 to 450
LUVW-SMP 1159 to 1500

approximate numbers, huge drop in LSVS numbers, HSVS numbers down but maybe made up for by larger MSVS. What were the MLVW?

There is a significant issue with that line of thinking - because it assumes that one will be able to do more with less.

1 5t may equal 2x 2.5t trucks as far as cargo load goes - and some will believe it is good value for the money as you have less tires, fewer drivers, less platform to do maintenance on etc -
But that assumes that the 5t carried by the 2 2.5t trucks were all going to the same place - it also doesn't give any sort of wiggle room for breakdowns etc.

In all reality the demand will increase on the platforms, and you will end up just running those fewer system ragged in even shorter periods that the fleet it replaced.
The HLVW fleet got clapped out way faster than planned - as it was needing to do a lot of the MLVW roles as those had rusted away.
Sure it was a bigger truck - but when you are putting 3-4x the miles on them than planned...

 

[McG]

it also doesn't give any sort of wiggle room for breakdowns etc.

Or combat losses. You don’t build resilience & survivability by consolidating all your eggs into fewer baskets.

 

[PrairieFella]

When an armoured vehicle is a logistics vehicle versus a fighting vehicle.

That depends on what you're using them for. The line does blur in the middle but a flatbed or binner truck obviously isn't a fighting vehicle and an AFV obviously isn't a logistic vehicle. In your example I'd personally categorize the Bushmaster as an APC and the Senator as a PMV.