King Charles III Coronation Medal

[FSTO]

Anyone joining is rolling the dice on what’ll happen in the world; ask anyone who showed up to St Jean in August 2001.

I was at BOTC when the Berlin Wall fell.

 

[George Wallace]

I was at BOTC when the Berlin Wall fell.

Off topic:

Having seen the border and its security, and The Wall in Berlin, it is something that one can't truly explain to someone who had never seen it. Words didn't do it justice.

 

[dapaterson]

I was at BOTC when the Berlin Wall fell.

So you're the reason?

 

[medicineman]

Now, don't forget, that there are other forms of recognition, than a medal. We have MIDs and other badges and clasps worn on the uniform; but other than accoutrements to be worn, we have Certificates, Letters of recognition, plaques, etc. that one would have on file or hang on a wall.

Certificates are something you can't show off, unless you bring your "Brag Wall" out in public...just my opinion of course. The pins/clasps are outward recognition of stuff you've done that the public gets to see...and can chat about if you so choose.

Right, but as I said I see there being a societal scale messaging component to this; show Canadians these vets are out there. There’s also something about a medal that a certificate or pin doesn’t match.

I wish I could remember where the post is, but I remember someone some years back posted here about someone telling the story of his medals to some civilians, and explaining his greatest pride being in the CD for all the otherwise unremarked sacrifices and labours it represented. I always liked that post. I feel like @Edward Campbell might have shared it.

I always looked at my or someone else's rack as their resume/CV - where they've been, what they might have seen, who I might know that might have been with them, and who they did it for (Canada/UK/US/etc). They often do stimulate conversations - was in the Sussex Legion in NB one dreary Remembrance Day with some of my unit youngsters and I noticed a fellow with an odd medal on a Merchant Marine blazer. He had both a Burma Star (the odd one out) AND a Pacific Star, which generally cancelled each other out - you were allowed one or the other, I know this because my Grand-Dad had a Burma Star and he had to choose which he wanted. Turned out that the rule didn't apply to Merchant Mariners for whatever reason, but I had to ask the question...and did it in a way that didn't make the old blind dude feel like I was calling him a Walt. Turned out he'd been torpedoed twice in the North Atlantic before being sent on ships in the Pacific and SE Asia...and things went on from there.

One thing that I always ask when I see certain medals is where were you - UNPROFOR in particular, since you got the same medal for being in Bosnia and Croatia, whether you were in a battle group, HQ's in Zagreb or Sarajevo, Primostein with the Log Bat or FMED, etc. I got the same GCS for Afghanistan, even though I was in Kabul for the set up of Camp Julien as someone got for a whole ROTO there or in Kandahar, +/- the SWASM medal if they were with CJTF 76, etc. But, like I said, it's a starting point for conversations. My CD with one bar doesn't quite tell my whole story, as I was 1 year shy of my second clasp when I realized why I got out of the Reg Force and applied that to my P Res unit. My OSM for Haiti is usually the conversation starter - it's an odd one, not many folks have it, even had a long chat with the Commodore about it when he gave it to me on parade almost 7 years to the day after we flew out...as well as my unit members in the mess afterwards. My order of St John used to be one as well...now it's the OSM or my Diving Medicine Dolphins.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I was at BOTC when the Berlin Wall fell.

Rookie….

 

[dimsum]

In this case, I'd probably have to go with our current culture, across all segments of our society, of giving out freebees, awards to everyone just for participation/attendance. We have the question raised of a medal for four years of service, where we already have one for twelve, with bars for twenty-two, thirty-two, forty-two, etc. It is sort of the idea that you no longer have to 'compete'.

I’ll argue that you’re not “competing” for a CD or the bars though. The criteria is to be still in uniform after X years, without being charged. It’s still something to serve for that time, but it’s not like you have to do anything special to get it.

Concur. Theee or four years of evenings, weekends, and a Stalwart Guardian or two would not cut it.

Probably a calculation like the Sea Service Indicator - AKA the number of “full time service” days (minus the weirdness of “sea days” and how they’re counted). Or the same way they calculate your Reserve time when you OT to the Reg F.

 

[dapaterson]

I’ll argue that you’re not “competing” for a CD or the bars though. The criteria is to be still in uniform after X years, without being charged. It’s still something to serve for that time, but it’s not like you have to do anything special to get it.

Without being convicted.

 

[MJP]

Without being convicted.

Even then it is only major punishments that cause any forfeiture of time towards a CD. A AWOL charge or 129 with a fine or other minor punishment do nothing to reset one's time towards their CD

Annex T – The Canadian Forces' Decoration (CD) - Canada.ca

Provides Forces personnel with the rules and regulations for wearing, replacing and recommending national honours and awards.

www.canada.ca

No member shall be considered to have a record of good conduct if during the last eight years of claimed service they have been awarded a punishment or sanction by a court martial, summary trial or summary hearing other than a fine, deprivation of pay, "minor punishment" or "minor sanction" listed in KR&O 104.13 and 123.02.

 

[dapaterson]

Even then it is only major punishments that cause any forfeiture of time towards a CD. A AWOL charge or 129 with a fine or other minor punishment do nothing to reset one's time towards their CD

Annex T – The Canadian Forces' Decoration (CD) - Canada.ca

Provides Forces personnel with the rules and regulations for wearing, replacing and recommending national honours and awards.

www.canada.ca

No member shall be considered to have a record of good conduct if during the last eight years of claimed service they have been awarded a punishment or sanction by a court martial, summary trial or summary hearing other than a fine, deprivation of pay, "minor punishment" or "minor sanction" listed in KR&O 104.13 and 123.02.

Good news! There's no such thing as a KR&O!

 

[MJP]

Good news! There's no such thing as a KR&O!

Yeah I caught that too.

 

[Booter]

Now, I don't agree with that. That, in my opinion is going way overboard. After all, that is what the CD is. You have just reduced the time, to create a redundant award, and a "Gimme". I even have a bit of a problem with what is now considered a Veteran that includes people, who in extreme cases, "signed on the "Dotted Line" and quite two days later".

For the RCMP if you have ever had a conduct finding at all- you are forever ineligible for these commemorative medals. Theres an equation for the long service medal- so it’s in theory harder to get these than the long service medal

Through the RCMP nomination process anyways- you can get issued one by the MLA despite your conduct sheet. It’s all nonsense. As a guy who will never have any medals lol

Medals also serve to tie people together and advertise. It would be nice if at Remembrance Day for example- everyone who had served could be identified. But in this thread you’ve already started deciding whose service should count as what for even your imaginary medals. Four years- but only if it’s reg time or class B. And not if you lived in shacks (sarcasm). Service to Canada is service to Canada.

Stop thinking because some guy might have a piece of coloured fabric that it might take away from your pieces of coloured fabric. Those that matter can read the rack anyways.

I’m from before a lot of this and only served a decade, my overseas fell in an award vacuum for a few reasons. During that time it was really normal for the only medal for guys to have in the navy was the CD.

I remember when they started issuing the SSM I think? It was like wow- guys are getting recognition for sailing south. And there was scowling then too. (I’m not Totally sure it was the SSM)

 

[mariomike]

RCAF 6 Group also seemed to have some leadership issues as well . They're dealings with PTSD sufferer's for a start . It's just a lack of moral fibre.... seriously?

I would not be overly critical of the bomber leadership of that era.

If you have ever seen the movie 12 o'clcok High, it's about s US Bomber squadron stationed in England and the meaning of "Maximum Effort". The RCAF was in the same situation.

General Pritchard:

I've gotta ask you to take nice kids and fly them until they can't take any more, and then put 'em back in and fly 'em some more. We've got to try to find out just what a maximum effort is. How much a man can take and get it all.

 

[Jarnhamar]

But in this thread you’ve already started deciding whose service should count as what for even your imaginary medals. Four years- but only if it’s reg time or class B. And not if you lived in shacks (sarcasm). Service to Canada is service to Canada.

There always needs to be a criteria for awards. A recruits 1 day of service then quitting isn't equivalent to your 12 or 15 years.

Likewise we don't get a campaign star for a 3-day trip in country.

 

[foresterab]

Yeah, initially I was thinking a ‘domestic’ bar to the SSM, but I’ve leaned more towards something like an OSM-Domestic. I’m not sure how viable op specific bars would be given how DOMOPS are likely to be an accumulation of multiple short but kinda shitty deployments. But maybe something similar to the rotation bars for cumulative service? Someone would need to pull data and get a sense of what’s reasonable on that. But I could see a low threshold - 30, 45 days - for an initial award, and maybe high thresholds for bars.

Recognition, I think. For me personally it’s all academic. I have my modest rack, already got a CD so a short service medal wouldn’t apply, and I didn’t do enough DOMOPS that I’d see anything under reasonable criteria for that. I’ve come to strongly few that what CAF does for Canadians should be more loudly celebrated. A DOMOPS medal would help with that (and would incentivize reservists stepping up), and I’m coming to think a short service medal for OFP and a basic engagement might indirectly spread a bit more awareness that we’re out.

I still think of the number of Australian resources I have worked with that wore this award. National Emergency Medal
Note this is the national emergancy and many states have a state (provincial) version for their own local emergancies.

Part of it to me though is everything seems to be Ops Lentus for Dom. Ops. so makes it tougher to tell what is where.

 

[Booter]

There always needs to be a criteria for awards. A recruits 1 day of service then quitting isn't equivalent to your 12 or 15 years.

Likewise we don't get a campaign star for a 3-day trip in country.

i don’t disagree. I just think we Canadians are very gun shy about us giving a misleading impression with our racks that we have done “so much” because of gongs like these. I’d suggest, as usual, we re so far the other way that in an international context we accomplish the opposite where our experienced folks look like they gone nowhere and done nothing. Which isn’t true.

That said. There are some impressive racks out there inside this honour system we have, so it’s not like it doesn’t happen.

I suppose it’s this. Let commemorative medals be what they are. Let valour be what it is. Let operational medals speak for themselves. Conflating commemorative medals with merit just kinda seems odd. Like if that’s the case we probably should have another award

 

[daftandbarmy]

i don’t disagree. I just think we Canadians are very gun shy about us giving a misleading impression with our racks that we have done “so much” because of gongs like these. I’d suggest, as usual, we re so far the other way that in an international context we accomplish the opposite where our experienced folks look like they gone nowhere and done nothing. Which isn’t true.

That said. There are some impressive racks out there inside this honour system we have, so it’s not like it doesn’t happen.

I suppose it’s this. Let commemorative medals be what they are. Let valour be what it is. Let operational medals speak for themselves. Conflating commemorative medals with merit just kinda seems odd. Like if that’s the case we probably should have another award

Luckily we have long lived regents or very few people would have any chest bling at all

 

[ueo]

There always needs to be a criteria for awards. A recruits 1 day of service then quitting isn't equivalent to your 12 or 15 years.

Likewise we don't get a campaign star for a 3-day trip in country.

How about the folks from NDHQ who facilitated the handovers in Bos/Her? Flew in, checked some papers, flew out, stayed in in hotel, allowed to amass/accumulate small visits to gain "I was there" gong. Know of at least 1, any more?

 

[ueo]

I still think of the number of Australian resources I have worked with that wore this award. National Emergency Medal
Note this is the national emergancy and many states have a state (provincial) version for their own local emergancies.

Part of it to me though is everything seems to be Ops Lentus for Dom. Ops. so makes it tougher to tell what is where.

Wasn't there some groundswell a while back for a domestic service gong that included the FLQ thing and Oka?

 

[Booter]

Luckily we have long lived regents or very few people would have any chest bling at all

I shouldn’t have grown my chest in all this anticipation of free bling.

I suppose short lived ones would provide more on a shorter time line with all the coronations

 

[Rifleman62]

There are several thousand PRes who volunteered for service with 4 CMBG in the late 60's and early 70's. Usually around 100 + days, I believe Aug to Nov.
In 1968, mbrs of the outgoing QOR of C, Cdn Guards were also sent as reinforcements due to the August 20, 1968, invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Soviet Union led Warsaw Pact troops to crack down on reformist trends in Prague. 4 CMBG was only 500 Km, 6 hours from Prague. It was a hairy time.

No SSM, NATO bar for those people, even though 45 cumulative days of eligible service criteria is now standard.