King Charles III Coronation Medal

[PrairieFella]

AH! You just filled in those blanks all by yourself.
Our troops are well served in getting the recognition they deserve. To create a redundant award, when one is already in place, with the only criteria being of "Attendance" is ridiculous. As I said, members have ample opportunities to earn awards during their careers.
And please, YOU grow up. This is not the Boy Scouts.

Thank you for not answering my question nor acknowledging my point about how the Brits handle what is essentially the same medal and adding nothing to the conversation lol.

 

[George Wallace]

Thank you for not answering my question nor acknowledging my point about how the Brits handle what is essentially the same medal and adding nothing to the conversation lol.

Not answering your question? I think I addressed your question, more than once now. And what do the Brits have to do with awarding a medal in Canada for "Four Years Attendance"? You may have noticed that there are quite a few differences in Terms of Service between Canada and the UK.
If you want to change the subject to the awarding of the "King Charles III Coronation Medal", then read my comments on that.

​

 

[MJP]

Are you of the "Everyone Gets a Trophy" generation? There will be ample opportunities for members (you) to earn awards other than for "Attendance", and just think, if you get a Charge on your Charge Sheet, you are "back to day one, do not collect $200" in the game of military life.

Couldn't learn how to engage in civil discourse in your time away from Army.ca eh?

BTW if you get charged your time for your CD is not completely reset. Take a read and learn something new on the link

12 years is a long time in most militaries and most members of the CAF won't make it there. It seems right to recognize them especially since coronations tend to be generational things. We need to issue more awards and honours in opinion, we're so stingy with this shit for no reason. Plus peace chests look terrible on parade haha.

I think it is an idea worth merit, we have good evidence that most people serve on average less than 12 years and we know from vigorous debates here despite many ppl say they don't care about medals, most folks do truly care about medals. Like most things the CD was from another era, maybe revisiting it or something interim is worthwhile.

 

[medicineman]

Our troops are well served in getting the recognition they deserve. To create a redundant award, when one is already in place, with the only criteria being of "Attendance" is ridiculous. As I said, members have ample opportunities to earn awards during their careers.

Well, that's debatable...I well remember seeing my ambulance partner take several years to get something he was nominated for (ended up with an MiD, downgraded from an MB for running into a minefield to help deal with severely wounded folks - because his version of events didn't coincide with others involved who had word for word same statements), have seen people not get anything for scarier things, and being told in a Base Chief's meeting one morning we need to start nominating more Junior and Senior NCO's for MSM's/MSC's/MMM's, yet every time we ticked the boxes for same, fuck all happened. I've seen people do things that MIGHT get mentioned on their Post-Ex assessment or their PER that at worst would get an officer in NDHQ AT LEAST a CDS Commendation. Frig, I've been written up a couple times for saving people's lives, but they got put into the "just doing his job" bin, and I can't think of any of those that actually made it to my PER those years...personally I know what I did, but there were others involved that were deserving of recognition and again, got lumped into the same file.

While I don't think you should get a gong every time you do something a little cool - friend of mine was on exercise in the US and was awarded a US Army Commendation Medal for giving someone some basic first aid after a vehicle accident...literally doing his job as a medic - I do think people should get credit where credit is deserved. Do something above and beyond, outside your scope of responsibility, rank and or MOSID - you should get an award of some sort...however that would require your CoC to identify this, write it up AND not take credit for it themselves (had that happen to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one ). The Canadian mentality that rolls over into the military is one of false humility - we'll tell you how special we are if you ask, but it's frowned upon to go right out and tell people how cool we really are uninvited. This I think has resulted in the fact that there are some recorded events in Afghanistan that were VC worthy, but since it's now our's to award, not a Commonwealth medal, I don't thing it'll ever be awarded, regardless if you pulled the Sovereign themselves out of a shitstorm or scarier.

I don't think we should downgrade the CD for time in, but I think if you've gone through 4-6 years, done a good job, a short service medal might not be out of order...12 years of full time service feels like forever, imagine even what 6 years of regular parading for a Reservist feels like or the Reg Force member who may have worked hard, done some domestic deployments or a lot of sea time - why not get something like that upon release as a show of thanks from the GoC and a reward for some hard work?

FWIW, my $0.02 pre-tax...

 

[GK .Dundas]

Well, that's debatable...I well remember seeing my ambulance partner take several years to get something he was nominated for (ended up with an MiD, downgraded from an MB for running into a minefield to help deal with severely wounded folks - because his version of events didn't coincide with others involved who had word for word same statements), have seen people not get anything for scarier things, and being told in a Base Chief's meeting one morning we need to start nominating more Junior and Senior NCO's for MSM's/MSC's/MMM's, yet every time we ticked the boxes for same, fuck all happened. I've seen people do things that MIGHT get mentioned on their Post-Ex assessment or their PER that at worst would get an officer in NDHQ AT LEAST a CDS Commendation. Frig, I've been written up a couple times for saving people's lives, but they got put into the "just doing his job" bin, and I can't think of any of those that actually made it to my PER those years...personally I know what I did, but there were others involved that were deserving of recognition and again, got lumped into the same file.

While I don't think you should get a gong every time you do something a little cool - friend of mine was on exercise in the US and was awarded a US Army Commendation Medal for giving someone some basic first aid after a vehicle accident...literally doing his job as a medic - I do think people should get credit where credit is deserved. Do something above and beyond, outside your scope of responsibility, rank and or MOSID - you should get an award of some sort...however that would require your CoC to identify this, write it up AND not take credit for it themselves (had that happen to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one ). The Canadian mentality that rolls over into the military is one of false humility - we'll tell you how special we are if you ask, but it's frowned upon to go right out and tell people how cool we really are uninvited. This I think has resulted in the fact that there are some recorded events in Afghanistan that were VC worthy, but since it's now our's to award, not a Commonwealth medal, I don't thing it'll ever be awarded, regardless if you pulled the Sovereign themselves out of a shitstorm or scarier.

I don't think we should downgrade the CD for time in, but I think if you've gone through 4-6 years, done a good job, a short service medal might not be out of order...12 years of full time service feels like forever, imagine even what 6 years of regular parading for a Reservist feels like or the Reg Force member who may have worked hard, done some domestic deployments or a lot of sea time - why not get something like that upon release as a show of thanks from the GoC and a reward for some hard work?

FWIW, my $0.02 pre-tax...

I have said this several times before and I'll say it again. If a Canadian soldier quite literally saved the world . If he was extremely luck and if the CoC smiled down upon him from their lofty heights.
He might get off with time served and possibly probation.
We really have turned fucking over the truly deserving amongst us into an art form.

 

[medicineman]

I have said this several times before and I'll say it again. If a Canadian soldier quite literally saved the world . If he was extremely luck and if the CoC smiled down upon him from their lofty heights.
He might get off with time served and possibly probation.
We really have turned fucking over the truly deserving amongst us into an art form.

Hear here...

 

[Furniture]

Are you of the "Everyone Gets a Trophy" generation? There will be ample opportunities for members (you) to earn awards other than for "Attendance", and just think, if you get a Charge on your Charge Sheet, you are "back to day one, do not collect $200" in the game of military life.

Who gave those kids those trophies? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the kids themselves. If you want to blame anyone, blame your own generation for trying to make life easier for the next generation. Maybe there is a point that things are too easy, but don't blame the children for the actions of adults.

Also, I'm the one that made the attendance comment, and I stand by it. I attended Afghanistan, the Med, the Arabian Sea, etc... My medals are for being there, not for doing anything particularly special or extra while there.

I've also been doing this for nearly 24 years at this time, with no intent to release quite yet, so I think I've got plenty of time in and experience to comment on these things.

 

[dimsum]

I have said this several times before and I'll say it again. If a Canadian soldier quite literally saved the world . If he was extremely luck and if the CoC smiled down upon him from their lofty heights.
He might get off with time served and possibly probation.
We really have turned fucking over the truly deserving amongst us into an art form.

cough cough Of the FVEY, we are the only ones who haven’t had a VC (or MOH for the Americans) winner in Afghanistan / Iraq

But that’s its own tangent.

 

[mariomike]

We really have turned fucking over the truly deserving amongst us into an art form.

Right.

10,855 members of the RCAF were KIA in Bomber Command.

Only one was awarded a VC ( postumous ).

There were no living recipients.

Only the Nazi U-Boat force suffered a higher casualty rate.

But that’s its own tangent.

Right.

 

[medicineman]

Right.

10,855 members of the RCAF were KIA in Bomber Command.

Only one was awarded a VC ( postumous ).

There were no living recipients.

The reason for that is a lot of the witnesses to their acts of bravery may well have perished with them...Andy Mynarski was awarded his because the tail gunner he tried to rescue lived to tell the tale.

 

[RedFive]

Also, I'm the one that made the attendance comment, and I stand by it. I attended Afghanistan, the Med, the Arabian Sea, etc... My medals are for being there, not for doing anything particularly special or extra while there.

Having been part of a number of "why aren't our (reserve) troops volunteering for Op LENTUS?" conversations now, I would also be strongly in favour of a Domestic Service medal. Say 30 days combined on a named domestic op, non-continuous so multiple deployments can be recognized. I believe there's a thread around here somewhere on that topic.

 

[brihard]

Yeah, I always get the feeling the "we look too American now" crowd is really just signalling their displeasure about not being visibly recognized for their accomplishments/service.

With most of our medals, they are just like getting a sticker for attendance. I showed up in place A for X days, here is my shiny bit of tin with some coloured ribbon. My SSI was harder to "earn" than all but two of my medals, and with one of them, the CD, it's simply that it takes 12 years to get and the first SSI only takes 180 days at sea.

FWIW, I think we mostly have it right, save that I’ve said in the past and still believe there should be a medal for cumulative DOMOPS service, recognizing what our troops do for Canadians. I think CAF could be better about nominating the junior ranks more frequently for commendations or Meritorious Service decorations. I’m sure there’s a ton of great work being done that isn’t really seen by anyone higher than Sgt/WO, and so at most there’s a junior platoon commander or other services equivalent to champion recognition.

I would not be opposed to a short service medal to recognize anyone who completes a basic engagement or equivalent, but I don’t have a strong feeling either way about it.

 

[GK .Dundas]

The reason for that is a lot of the witnesses to their acts of bravery may well have perished with them...Andy Mynarski was awarded his because the tail gunner he tried to rescue lived to tell the tale.

I've actually heard the story from the guy who was the Tail Gunner.
It was part and parcel of the Remembrance Day ceremonies at my Junior High. Andrew Mynarski Junior High School.
RCAF 6 Group also seemed to have some leadership issues as well . They're dealings with PTSD sufferer's for a start . It's just a lack of moral fibre.... seriously?

 

[Pelorus]

The pitch for a DOMOPS medal, specifically as a method to incentivize reservist support to Op LENTUS, was asked to a GOFO at a Town Hall I attended this past year. The response from the GOFO holding the Town Hall was that it had been brought up at the Armed Forces Council and the were some significant detractors to the extent that it seemed unlikely to materialize any time soon.

Missed opportunity IMO. Although it was funny attending an unrelated brief this year where the projection for L3 support to Op LENTUS was in the neighbourhood of around 40-60 people, and the forecast for reservists coming to the coast for summer guaranteed employment was also around 40-60 people, but under no circumstances could those reservists be employed on Op LENTUS unless they specifically volunteered.

 

[RedFive]

The pitch for a DOMOPS medal, specifically as a method to incentivize reservist support to Op LENTUS, was asked to a GOFO at a Town Hall I attended this past year. The response from the GOFO holding the Town Hall was that it had been brought up at the Armed Forces Council and the were some significant detractors to the extent that it seemed unlikely to materialize any time soon.

Missed opportunity IMO. Although it was funny attending an unrelated brief this year where the projection for L3 support to Op LENTUS was in the neighbourhood of around 40-60 people, and the forecast for reservists coming to the coast for summer guaranteed employment was also around 40-60 people, but under no circumstances could those reservists be employed on Op LENTUS unless they specifically volunteered.

What were these detractors? Or is it a whom?

 

[Pelorus]

What were these detractors? Or is it a whom?

I don't recall off the top of my head who exactly comprises the AFC, but the whom would be L1s (LGen/RAdm) and likely some other senior advisors.

 

[mariomike]

The reason for that is a lot of the witnesses to their acts of bravery may well have perished with them...

AOC Don Bennett famously said there would be "no living VC's" in Bomber Command PFF.

He felt there should be no "stars" or 'professional heroes."

Bomber Command by Sir Max Hastings, page 280.

 

[medicineman]

I've actually heard the story from the guy who was the Tail Gunner.
It was part and parcel of the Remembrance Day ceremonies at my Junior High. Andrew Mynarski Junior High School.
RCAF 6 Group also seemed to have some leadership issues as well . They're dealings with PTSD sufferer's for a start . It's just a lack of moral fibre.... seriously?

I never heard it first hand, but did read his account many times from a book my Grand-Dad had - he was a Second World War vet in the British Army - one of the last guys out of Dunkirk then straight to India and Burma for the rest of the war...after they demobbed, he eventually transferred to the Canadian Army and moved to Canada, spent the rest of his career with 2 RCHA, back and forth from Winnipeg-Germany-Shilo-Germany again.

I remember reading an interesting article about PTSD issues within the Canadian Army during the Italian Campaign - they had lost everything they'd learned from the First World War and were relearning from scratch. There was 1 Psychiatrist for the Canadian Division in Italy...who also had to act as a GDMO. "Life Savers and Body Snatchers" by Tim Cook goes a lot into medical advances by the CAMC/RCAMC during the First World War, including issues with psychiatric casualties...which the military medical system had to relearn in WW2, again in Korea, yet again in UN Ops in Egypt, Lebanon, Cyprus, Croatia and Bosnia, etc, and are still trying to learn post-Afghanistan. First PTSD case I saw as a junior medic was from Cyprus - dude was with the Airborne there when the Turks invaded, his buddy was shot dead at a checkpoint in front of him. I'm sure the RCAF was no different, even worse for Bomber Command since they worked vampire hours and sleep deprivation or messed up sleep cycles interferes with processing the shit and abuse they were going through nightly. Ironic that they felt there shouldn't be many bravery awards, yet left and right in Fighter and Coastal Commands, forget the RCN and Army. Lack of recognition, forget lack of acknowledging what they were going through would at best be a damper on morale, made worse by the constant stress and lack of recovering from same. All of this from "Leadership" in quotes because they certainly were leading from behind a desk, not by example, nor from the front. BTW, my orthodontist when I was teenager had an MiD hanging up in his office - was an RCAF F/O with Bomber Command, so managed to do something that caught someone's attention...and lived to tell the tale.

Even in the 90's, when they finally decided that PTSD was a recognized, pensionable duty related condition, you always got looked at with the side eye if you brought up any distress you might be having - had it happen to me and have seen it, maybe even done it - we knew a few people trying to game the system as there always are. When I got posted to Kingston, all the 1 CDHSR UMS had just got back from Rwanda, a buddy of mine there was second ROTO into Croatia, another was in ROTO 0 into Croatia and then Sarajevo, another friend of mine was with the CAR in Somalia and I'd got back from Croatia the fall previous. I honestly felt like we were all under a microscope there for the head shrinkers, some of whom were drooling at this research project essentially handed to them.

 

[kratz]

Having been part of a number of "why aren't our (reserve) troops volunteering for Op LENTUS?" conversations now, I would also be strongly in favour of a Domestic Service medal. Say 30 days combined on a named domestic op, non-continuous so multiple deployments can be recognized. I believe there's a thread around here somewhere on that topic.

Bill C-386 is stalled in first reading, after being introduced last March 2024. Sadly, because it's an opposition MP's bill, it is unlikely to ever move forward. Granted, the topic is beginning to become noticed.

 

[brihard]

Private members’ bills seldom go anywhere, unfortunately.