Is our military Conservative or Liberal ?

[canadianblue]

I think when it comes down to which party to vote for, wearing cadpat doesn't make much of a difference. I've met some members who voted NDP and Liberals, when I vote I look at things other than which party is best for the military. I voted Conservative in the last election, however I would consider voting Liberal if they elected Kennedy, and also consider voting for the NDP if it was led by Peter Stoffer [Third Way].

 

[Troop Suporter]

there is no such thing as "Withdrawal with Honour".

There is success, or there is failure. In the eyes of our enemies, both those we are fighting overtly, and those we are fighting by proxy (theirs), anything less than an over-whelming victory for us, is a victory for them. And that will embolden them further. And that will have horrific consequences.

"Withdraw with honour".  : Runnin' away is runnin' away. Call it straight, or don't call it.

BUMP!

Withdrawal is defeat. That end this mission can not have. Will not have.

 

[Troop Suporter]

I think when it comes down to which party to vote for, wearing cadpat doesn't make much of a difference. I've met some members who voted NDP and Liberals, when I vote I look at things other than which party is best for the military. I voted Conservative in the last election, however I would consider voting Liberal if they elected Kennedy, and also consider voting for the NDP if it was led by Peter Stoffer [Third Way].

Have you ever heard of Maurice Strong, Paul Desmarais, or Power Corp.?
They are the power behind the Liberal party. Behind Cretchien, Martin, Rae.

<a href="http://www.acepilots.com/unscam/archives/001890.html">Canadian Connection to Oil For Food</a>

As if they care what they have to promise the public, to get more votes. To get power back.
If a party has good ideas, and then doesn't follow through with them, at best they've lied, at worst it was an act to achieve other aims.

 

[JesseWZ]

I think the Liberals negative ad campaign may have contributed to many CF members lean towards the Tories.

"Stephen Harper actually announced he wants to increase military presence in our cities. Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada. We did not make this up."  Anyone remember that gem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Liberal_Party_of_Canada_election_ads

I know the source isn't exactly the most concrete out there, however it does contain what I was referring to.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Our military is, of course, apolitical, and that must ever be the case. 

The answer to your question then must be that the military is Canadian.

Yes and no to a good answer in a highly theoretical debate.

I personally believe this is one of the instances where we must separate (a) the "military" from "miltary service" (in its widest sense), from (b) the individual who steps forward and serves his/her country through military service for whatever contextual reasons bring them to that a common point of convergence with other individuals. The common point of convergence is duty, honour, sacrifice, and obedience all rolled into one purpose and shaped into a lethal form capable of incredible violence and more often credible restraint.

I would agree there is no such thing as a Conservative or Liberal military - it is an inanimate object comprised of plans, rules, theories, tactics, strategies, stock and serial numbers and yet curiously it has a collective directing mind which as a matter of survival must be two very important things (i)  warrior orientated by nature (certainly not a political trait in a democracy) and (ii) apolitical in nature- a definitve characteristic on a closed society distinctively based on the power of inner self discipline whether acquired or innate.

It then goes wonky from there and becomes a full circle -the "military" is simply the sum of its constituent parts, the most significant part of which is those who perform, performed or otherwise serve under the rubric of "military service", all of whom hold individual political beliefs and common characteristics which drive the warrior nature of the organization.

Theoretically speaking, of course.   

 

[NL_engineer]

I think the Liberals negative ad campaign may have contributed to many CF members lean towards the Tories.

I have to agree on that one; but with change of the party leader, the liberal stance MAY change.

 

[midget-boyd91]

The way I see the militarys political stance is that even though it may always lean in a certain direction, it has no choice but to be whatever is in power at the time.

 

[George Wallace]

Of course our military is 'conservative'.  All militaries are.  What political persuasion its' members are is a whole different question and in the case of Canada's military, one that no one is probably going to find a distinct and lasting answer to.

 

[NL_engineer]

+1 to whiskey601  8)

IMO it is pointless arguing if the military is Liberal or Conservative.

That just my 2 cents

 

[Fabius]

George Wallace is I believe correct when he says that the military is "conservative". It has been largely accepted that the United States military and by their very nature most militaries are a conservative organization. The debate is not and should not be about what an individual soldier votes come election time, that is a political matter. That said the notion of conservative or liberal is not necessarily a political view with regards to the current political parties within Canada or other state. It needs to be stated that the conservative or liberal view that exists as a majority within a military is not big C conservatism or big L liberalism. The question concerns the small letter versions of both, the overall philosophical outlook on state/human relations that was espoused by such individuals as Hobbs, Hume, Locke, Rousseau and Mill. If one looks at the overall political outlook of these philosophers, I would tend to think that one would likely find that the attitudes and beliefs of most military personal would correspond most closely with those of the conservative thinkers versus the liberal ones. In this respect the Canadian military is most likely at its heart composed of those with a small c conservative belief.

 

[Elwood]

Nice stuff Fabius. Even a quick glance at the posts on this site would support your opinion that the Canadian military is a little right-wing at it's core. I know that some people on this site are non-military, but it's apparent that the people who post about politics would exude a more Conservative political stance.

Most posters support a Conservative view; a lot would support the best government (Tories or Grits... but mostly Tories). However, I've yet to see a post on this site where someone is staunchly Liberal. I've yet to see a post where the N.D.P. is not bashed.

P.S.: You gotta love the Green Party for trying. 

 

[JesseWZ]

Well... without the Green Party, election sign concentrations would be far more bland. You got your red, orange and blue... green just adds a little something.

 

[STONEY]

Some anchient history for you.  Once upon a time you had to be 21 to vote in Canadian elections. The only exception to this was if you were in the military who were alowed to vote at any age. The thought was if you were old enough to serve your country you were old enough to vote.  Service members were required to make a declaration in writeing and decide what federal riding they wanted to vote in which could be where they were born, where they joined or where they were stationed  etc.  When a Federal election was held  service members voted in advance where they were stationed and the vote was counted seperately from the rest of the country and added to the rideing counts a day after the election .  If there were any close contests in any ridings across the country (ie only a few votes difference)  the military vote usually made the difference and at that time the Liberals usually had a sigh of relief because the military vote was always 85 to 90% in their favour.  Oh how times have changed.

Cheers!

 

[nowhere_man]

Some ancient history for you.  Once upon a time you had to be 21 to vote in Canadian elections. The only exception to this was if you were in the military who were allowed to vote at any age. The thought was if you were old enough to serve your country you were old enough to vote. 

That's a really good idea they should do that now and while you're at it make a thing so that if you're in the military and underage you can buy beer 

 

[wilde]

The Forces are made up of a cross section of our population...rich, poor, educated or not, competent and NOT. A person votes on their own wants, needs and dreams. So if 40% of the country vote for a party you can assume that 40% of the Forces have voted that way as well. Are the forces Conservative? I would say we are Canadian.

 

[Willing Foe]

I would be very surprised if they did.  They will focus on green things, but not Cadpat.  They will talk about "withdrawal with honour".  The Liberals have a lot of competition on the left (NDP and Greens).  They will attempt to fight THAT battle whilst attempting to get the Red Tories on their side.

The Liberals practice a form of politics called Brokerage Mode Politics, the accommodative, pragmatic policies the party has employed in both election campaigns and the day-to-day operation of government - in other words find out what the polls want you to say and say it. That doesn't necessarily mean "Do it" just "Say it". That is why they can be for immigrants but spend years refusing to progress the recognition of foreign qualifications and for Kyoto but never do anything to implement policies and programmes to advance it. This is why they are the "Natural Ruling Party". They are focussed entirely on getting into and staying in power - not on governing the country. You can't do that if you have any policies that you can be held to. This is also why the Conservatives fail to stay in power for very long - they have a set of ethics and policies that define them and the Liberals are free to adopt anything that brings a vote without having to be saddled with an obligation to implement.
The Federal Liberal Party is a consistent machine. The policies and practices of the government of Wilfred Laurier at the turn of the 20th century are resounding like those of Jean Chretien a hundred years later. They are roughly focussed on maintaining the primacy of the Liberal Party of Canada, make money for their friends, and hold the dominance of Central Canada (Ontario and Quebec) largely through fostering the tension between French and English Canada and ensuring that the flow of wealth continued to flow to the centre. They are dismissive of the East, contemptuous of the West and don't understand the concept of honour (it goes against the prime directive - Do what is necessary to stay in power).
Very few politicians have been willing to sacrifice the good of their party for the good of the country - and they were all Conservative.
I have spoken of a small subset of political positions which does not include most social policies. I will never again join a polical party - I left the last one for similar reasons to those above - but I can think of only one at the moment that I would vote for.

 

[1feral1]

In my view, if you want good a government positive for Defence, vote for the Torres.

I used to when I lived in Canada, but in Australia, we have Labour (left), and the Liberals (right), so if one wants something positive for the ADF, you vote the Libs, as in Aussie, they are the Conservatives.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[a_majoor]

Oddly the Conservative position is for individual rights, equality at law, freedom of speech, association and property rights, most of which we in the military willingly have restricted in order to remain a useful and apolitical tool for the government.

But there is certainly a wide cross section of people in the military, and I have had entertaining debates in the shacks as to why the NDP would have made the best Canadian government by true believers in uniform. Mind you, with the advent of Jack Layton and his crew, true believers are no longer to be found in uniform, and I haven't seen too many Green Party supporters, but statistically speaking, about 5.5% of the CF would probably vote Green based on their national electoral results.

I don't think the CF is or can be treated as a voting block, and anyone who thinks so should remember the lesson of the Unions; the "bosses" may control the funding and communicate "the message"; but in the end the membership votes according to each individuals preference.

 

[NL_engineer]

But there is certainly a wide cross section of people in the military, and I have had entertaining debates in the shacks as to why the NDP would have made the best Canadian government by true believers in uniform. Mind you, with the advent of Jack Layton and his crew, true believers are no longer to be found in uniform, and I haven't seen too many Green Party supporters, but statistically speaking, about 5.5% of the CF would probably vote Green based on their national electoral results.

I know a number of CF members who voted green, because they did not want to vote red, blue, or orange.

 

[sigtech]

They all lie

But I would have to say at least Conservative appears to be pro DnD