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Iran and Syria - war of the future?

  • Thread starter jmackenzie_15
  • Start date
The US represents a system known to some the "Hegemond."
They are the leading state at this time and it is therefore their duty to establish law and order international.  :threat:

Right about now they can do whatever they like with  reasonable justification.
 
yea but i don't remeber them being appointed the worlds police man do you?  ;D

Being able to do anything does not mean that you have to do something. 

I don't see them pushing China around. :eek:
 
elminister said:
The US represents a system known to some the "Hegemond."
They are the leading state at this time and it is therefore their duty to establish law and order international.   :threat:

Right about now they can do whatever they like with reasonable justification.

Actually, they are seen as the Hegemon.  It doesn't imply that they can do whatever they like with reasonable justification per se, rather it means that their economic, military and political dominance leads to it being the key shaper of norms in the international system (it is not a "duty" and they cannot do "whatever they like").
 
Sorry


What time frame are we feeling that this may turn into an actual shooting war? 2-3 yrs or longer.  How long does the US give them to buy more weapons?

 
Here's the thing, if everybody does their job right and a reasonable dose of good luck occurs it may never happen.  On the other hand if Slim's post on Boston is accurate then tensions could be getting pretty tight right now. 

Which would suit Syria and Iran better? A two front war against an extended Coalition with Iran primarily facing off against the UK zone in the Shiite south and Syria facing off against a dispersed US force in the North?  Starting before a "legitimate" government can be installed?  Or wait until after the elections, when the government has more international and internal legitimacy, the level of violence may or may not have decreased but there will certainly be more informers making covert action harder, and the US has an opportunity to regroup, reorg and pick its own time and target?

I could imagine that right now some people in various places could be getting wound up pretty tight right about now.
 
My guess is Iran or Syria would not make the first move of a shooting war anyway.... i think they are more likely to try and provoke the US into attacking THEM if anything.thoughts?
 
jmackenzie_15 said:
My guess is Iran or Syria would not make the first move of a shooting war anyway.... i think they are more likely to try and provoke the US into attacking THEM if anything.thoughts?

Why would they provoke one of the world's strongest militaries into war?  As noted before, both Iran and Syria would likely loose a war with the US (assuming the US pushes on until the end)- granted casualties would be high on both ends, but I fail to see why they would want to start that end-game.

To that note, if both Iran and Syria engaged in a war with the US, any thoughts as to the latter's ability to wage an offensive on both ends while maintaining present operations in the area?
 
It would most definetly be tuff to do.  But if the assets were in place it could be done.

They may try and provoke a small scale border engagment and then attempt to blame the americans for the attack or attempt to provoke Isreal into the conflict hence bringing in Jordon and the rest of the Mid East into the conflict. 

As far as starting a mager offensive i don't see it the US would Prob pick it up and bomb the snot out of it before it got too close to Iraq.

But then you may be right they may try and start it up before elections say ohh the 28th or so with a hard push into southern Iraq and Norther Iraq cutting off the oil fields and such. 

But if the US gets Pakistan or India on their side it would make Iran and Syria think twice.

 
Thinking the US is "overstreached" or unable to fight a multi front conflict is limiting your thinking to "conventional" warfighting.

Two points I must reiterate:

1. The United States may not be able to mount a conventional invasion against Syria or Iran, but could still do an effective "head-shot" and put those nations out of commission if it is deemed nessesary. The risk is the chaotic conditions following such a move would throw almost any sort of military, political or economic strategy out the window.

2. Because of the intelligence fiasco involving pre war Iraq, the administration will not take action unless it can be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt". Either captured Syrian or Iranian officers leading anti-American fighters (or something equally clear-cut), or a provocation by one of these nations, most probably Iran, and most certainly if it involved the use or threat of nuclear weapons against American forces or the US Homeland.

Unless those conditions can be met, only the intelligence preparation of the battlefield and possibly "deep black" operations will be the limit to American activity.

This apparently does not stop the conspiracy theorists who look at the second Inagural speech as a plan to invade the rest of the Middle East. The administration is thinking along these lines as a last resort, Dr Rice's tough talk during her confirmation hearings is a fairly clear sign of that, but unless there is a provocation, I will only say "Watch and Shoot".
 
Majoor the head shot may do nothing more then put a worse government in place, i think it is an option even a fiesable one if the Americans can get the Iranians up in arms over there own government may work.  But without civil revolt or demonstation i doubt we would see the "head shot". 

I do agree with this though". Because of the intelligence fiasco involving pre war Iraq, the administration will not take action unless it can be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt". Either captured Syrian or Iranian officers leading anti-American fighters (or something equally clear-cut), or a provocation by one of these nations, most probably Iran, and most certainly if it involved the use or threat of nuclear weapons against American forces or the US Homeland.

Unless those conditions can be met, only the intelligence preparation of the battlefield and possibly "deep black" operations will be the limit to American activity.


That is absolutely true.  Only time will tell.
 
Just got this off of Canoe.ca

But the administration is skeptical that Iran is bargaining in good faith. For its part, Iran says its nuclear program is aimed at producing energy, not weapons.

Rice said U.S. differences with Iran go well beyond its nuclear program.

"It's really hard to find common ground with a government that thinks Israel should be extinguished," she told senators. "It's difficult to find common ground with a government that is supporting Hezbollah and terrorist organizations that are determined to undermine the Middle East peace that we seek."

Khatami, travelling Thursday in Africa, seemed unconcerned about the consequences of a possible U.S. attack.

"We have prepared ourselves," he said, adding that he did not anticipate any "lunatic" military move by the United States because Washington has too many problems in Iraq.


hummm seems like a little more banter for us.

 
Long post by VDH, annotations by myself

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Special/A11902002_1.htm
Has Iraq Weakened Us?

Victor Davis Hanson

Whatever the results of the elections scheduled for late January in Iraq, a new pessimism about that country, as well as about the larger war on terror, has taken hold in many circles in the United States. Serious observers, not to mention shriller commentators like Paul Krugman and Maureen Dowd of the New York Times, have concluded not only that the United States is stuck in a hopeless quagmire in Iraq, but that our unwise unilateral intervention there is having painful repercussions both for our position as an honest promoter of reform and for our diplomatic and military maneuverability elsewhere in the world.

Joining the pessimism, Alistair Horne, the eminent British military historian, recently likened the American situation in Iraq to the French debacle in the "brutal Algerian eight-year warâ ?; his obvious inference was that the ultimate denouement will be a similarly abrupt and humiliating Western withdrawal. Horne could adduce much apparent evidence to support this depressing proposition: the instability in the Sunni triangle over the last two years, mounting American combat fatalities, a seemingly endless insurgency, the increasing reluctance of allies to support in any serious material way the world's lone superpower, and a failure of moderate Iraqis to step forward and deny sanctuary to the terrorists in their midst. The more jihadists, Baathists, and mujahideen that Americans kill, the more of them have seemed to pour into Iraq from Syria and other places in the neighboring Islamic world, either for pay or out of religious zeal. As for the Iraqi "street,â ? it appears to be both repulsed and paralyzed by this terrorist barbarity, and above all uncertain whether the Americans will stay long enough to ensure either safety or the promised democracy.

Meanwhile, American efforts at democratization are the object of much criticism at home, both on pragmatic and ideological grounds. Even some supporters of the war have come to see these postbellum efforts as naïve, misconceived, or simply too taxing in the tribal and factional circumstances of Iraq. A November 2004 article in Reason, subtitled "Twilight of the Liberal Hawks,â ? surveyed the second thoughts of a number of pundits and columnists, among them Paul Berman, Thomas Friedman, Kenneth Pollack, Fareed Zakaria, Andrew Sullivan, and Michael Ignatieff. Each of them, unhappy in his own particular way with the failure to deal with the post-April 2003 insurrection in Iraq, has criticized the Bush administration not only for its conduct of the Iraq operation but, at least by implication, for the much more ambitious project of an American-led democratizing of the greater Middle East.

The newly perceived area of strategic crisis emanates worldwide from its current center in Baghdad. With over 130,000 troops and $100 billion tied up on the ground in Iraq, where, critics ask, are we to find ready reserves for other hot spots on the horizon? Aside from the boiling Middle East, the Balkans are not yet pacified; our relationship with the South Koreans is in a state of dangerous flux; and Japan, lacking its own strategic arsenal, is sandwiched between a rising China and a nuclear North Korea. Add in the worry over protecting Taiwan, instability in the former Soviet republics, leftist rumblings in South America, and the United States may stand in need of additional and sizable rapid-reaction forces that it shows no signs of being able to recruit, train, or pay for in time to deal with most emergencies.

Nor is it only a matter of a current shortage of manpower. Looming domestic problems-a declining dollar, huge budget deficits, and dependence on overseas capital-are exacerbated by the fact that we have committed over a third of our available combat strength to Iraq and do not have the ready funds to recreate the divisions lost to budget cuts in the 1990's. It is at least partly with this perceived gap between responsibilities and resources in mind that even some conservatives have begun to weigh in with regret. In June 2004, William F. Buckley, Jr. concluded: "If I knew then what I know now about what kind of situation we would be in, I would have opposed the war.â ? Although Buckley has since offered different thoughts, George F. Will still appears as pessimistic as he was when he announced in the headline of a May 2004 column: "Time for Bush to See the Realities of Iraq.â ?

Finally, a number of retired generals and admirals-Wesley Clark, William J. Crowe, Barry McCaffrey, Tony McPeak, William Odom, Stansfield Turner, and Anthony Zinni-have worried publicly over the demands placed on the United States in Iraq and the specter of another open-ended, Vietnam-like commitment sapping American assets, troop morale, and public support for the military. Moved by the hard facts of finite resources and the soft reality of censure at home and abroad, these former-officers-turned-political-commentators emphasize our increasing vulnerabilities and voice a reluctance to exercise any further American power abroad except under the aegis of the United Nations and with de-facto NATO blessing.

Political prognoses in wartime are notoriously mercurial, hinging on the weekly eddies of the battlefield. But these are sometimes poor indicators of larger strategic currents. If one thing can be said with confidence about Iraq, it is that the story is not over, since so far the daily bombings have neither prompted American withdrawal nor derailed scheduled elections and reforms. In World War II, the bloodiest moment of the Pacific theater was at Okinawa, finally declared secure a mere nine weeks before the Japanese surrender, while in Europe the Battle of the Bulge, a slog that cost more American lives than the drive to the Rhine, was not finished until only about 100 days before Germany collapsed. What can be seen in hindsight, and only in hindsight, is that while Americans were being butchered in Belgium and on Sugar Loaf Hill, larger forces were insidiously working to doom Germany and Japan in short order. The last gasps of resistance are sometimes the bloodiest and most unexpected.

Just so, Afghanistan a year ago was supposedly a hopeless case, torn apart by warlords and Taliban resurgence, and unfit for elections; today the country is mostly on the back pages, as if democracy were de rigueur for a nation recently dismissed as a relic of the Dark Ages. Similarly, with all the news of bombings and beheadings coming from Iraq, the larger picture, not so easily deciphered, shows signs of real progress in most of the country. The long overdue retaking of Falluja and ancillary military operations have sent their own signal: that a reelected George Bush intends to ensure the installation and the survival of a legitimately elected Iraqi government. The specter of that constitutional authority sending troops to quash mercenaries, Baathists, and Wahhabi jihadists is precisely what frightens al Qaeda and other avatars of Islamic fascism, who have rightly grasped that their failure in the Sunni triangle will constitute a bitter defeat for global Islamic fundamentalism itself.

The American persistence in Iraq under difficult circumstances might also explain why potential enemies farther afield, from Teheran to Pyongyang, have so far decided not to seize the moment to press their luck with the United States. Meanwhile, the world at large appears more, rather than less, disposed to stand up to Islamic fascism and the terror it wages. Even less ambiguously, Pakistan, though often playing a duplicitous role in the past, has remained a neutral in the war on terror if not at times an ally, while its nuclear guru, A.P. Khan, is for the moment in retirement. On the issue of the dangers posed by Islamic extremism, nearly 3 billion people in India, China, Japan, and the former Soviet Union are more likely to favor than to oppose American counterterrorism efforts. Libya is suddenly coming clean about its own nefarious schemes and even opening its borders to African aid workers. Murmurs of democratic change are rumbling throughout the autocratic Gulf. Terrorists are not so welcome as they once were in Jordan, Yemen, or much of North Africa. Even Europe, stung by charges of profit-driven appeasement, and even the UN, reeling under financial and humanitarian scandals, are reconsidering their habitual modes of reflexive accommodation.

Do these developments guarantee a more secure world in the offing? Hardly. But they are positive indications of momentum-signs that themselves reflect the unexpected forcefulness of the American response to Islamic terrorism and its dictatorial supporters. Stop, or pull out of Iraq before a free society is secure, and the entire sequence of reform could operate in reverse, leading four or five Middle Eastern states instead to become either nuclear-armed or open havens for anti-Western terrorists-or both. The task of stabilizing Iraq is thus of enormous significance in a region that, thanks only to the United States and its coalition allies, may yet be forced to confront its dictators' worst nightmare: not terrorist violence but televised coverage of citizens queuing up to vote in free elections and then arguing in an unfettered parliament.

There are lessons here for those who claim that American flexibility has become increasingly constricted and American choices all but foreclosed. In fact, as Iraq comes slowly under control, the opposite prognosis is at least as likely to be the case. Precisely because of proven American resolve in Iraq, the United States now commands both military and diplomatic options-well short of another Iraq-style invasion-that were not at its disposal previously.

The new stature enjoyed by America is especially germane in the Middle East itself. There, the first place where diplomatic and political initiatives could usefully be exercised is in the problematic triad of Syria, Lebanon, and Iran. The U.S. might, to begin with, pressure the UN Security Council to go beyond its recent call for Syria to end its occupation of Lebanon by demanding internationally supervised elections, to follow immediately upon the departure of the Baathists.

Both Iran and Syria, through their terrorist ganglia on the ground in the Bekaa Valley, can be counted on to try to strangle any such effort. But this is not 1983, when America retreated after Marines were murdered in Beirut and later bargained for hostages. Today the Lebanese, returning to their wonted entrepreneurialism, are tiring of the Baathist Syrians. Yasir Arafat is dead. And the Iranians are leery of American strikes against their nuclear facilities. It is thus a singularly opportune moment to stir worries about principled democratization; for nothing could be more dangerous to an untested dictatorship like Syria's than to ring it with an enlarging circle of autonomous countries with free elections, unbridled radio and television, and uncensored Internet service. To Arabs in Syria and elsewhere who are increasingly aware that they enjoy neither the freedoms nor the prosperity that billions elsewhere take for granted, the appeal of such reform is potentially explosive.

Other equally bold diplomatic initiatives could be undertaken, their credibility similarly enhanced by the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. For example, the present Middle-East-aid policy of the United States is a relic both of the cold war (pump oil and keep out Communists) and the 1979 Camp David agreements (subsidize Egypt). Such short-term measures, carrying the odor of entreaty if not of bribery, hardly reflect our current aim of promoting consensual government. With both Saddam and the Soviets gone, granting weapons and money to the regime in Cairo-nearly $50 billion since 1979-is becoming counterproductive. What advantages the United States receives in "moderationâ ? is overshadowed by the venomous anti-Americanism that is the daily fare of millions of Egyptians, whipped up and manipulated by state-sponsored clerics and media.

As several congressional critics, most prominently Tom Lantos, have pointed out, America loses both ways: the money and the business-as-usual attitude send a message to others in the region that the United States will willingly subsidize anti-American hatred and promote an anti-democratic government in one place while trying to create the opposite elsewhere. True, a Hosni Mubarak is not an Assad or a Rafsanjani, and that must count for something in the volatile Middle East; but under the reign of Mubarak, Egypt has been turned into a kind of Afghanistan-of-the-mind, the intellectual and media mecca for anti-American and anti-Semitic hatred spread throughout the Arab world. We are in a war with both Islamic fascism and Arab autocracy for the hearts and minds of the Arab people, and sincere advocacy of the interests of the latter is the only way to head off a devil's partnership of the former.

As part of President Bush's democratic initiatives in the Middle East, financial or military support from the United States could, instead, be tied far more closely to constitutional reforms in places like Egypt, the Gulf States, North Africa, and Jordan. Such a policy, appealing directly to the citizenry of the Arab world, would also be invaluable when it comes to dealing with looming requests from the Palestinian Authority for still more cash aid. But the point is also general. Rather than cherry-picking the autocracies of the Middle East, with aid lavished on those who sound most moderate, it makes far more sense to calibrate help with evidence of concrete steps toward democratization.

Elections have their place in such a policy, but, alone, they are not the be-all and end-all. Ten years ago, "one man, one vote, one timeâ ? was a valid description of so-called democratic reform in the Arab world. The risk then was that, through our fixation with plebiscites, we would become complicit in bringing to power not a democracy but a "demonocracyâ ? in the form of anti-democratic clerics or Arafat-like killers. In the case of Arafat himself, crowned president of the Palestinian Authority in a "democraticâ ? election with Jimmy Carter's seal of approval, that deformity is precisely what happened.

Nor has the risk of democratic distortion abated. But we can hedge our coveted financial and diplomatic support with demands not merely for elections but for constitutional guarantees of human rights, market reforms, and free expression. In addition, though this is a trickier proposition, we can insist on evidence of liberalization as a precondition for continuing to pour billions of petrodollars into the region.

Pundits speak of poverty as the catalyst for terrorism in the Islamic world; in fact, far more often it is not the dearth but the spectacular abundance of wealth in Middle Eastern societies that has incited and then fueled the killers. In theocratic Iran, oil money is recycled both to Hizballah and the nuclear-weapons program. In Saudi Arabia, Western dollars translate into Wahhabi mosques and madrassas all over the world. Saddam Hussein not only corrupted much of the industrialized Western world via the UN's Oil-for-Food program but had earlier attacked four countries with his petrodollar-acquired arsenal. Al-Jazeera, the propaganda successor to Pravda, and critical to the insurrectionists' efforts in the Sunni triangle, is an indirect dividend from Qatar's oil revenues.

If Americans have learned anything from the careers of Qaddafi, the Saudi royal family, Saddam Hussein, and the Iranian clergy, it is that huge petroleum profits accruing among illegitimate autocrats are a recipe for global terrorism and regional havoc. One way to end the present pathology is for the United States, accepting that concerns for our national survival can sometimes trump the logic of finding the cheapest energy source, to develop a policy that helps drive down world petroleum prices. Another option is far more aggressively to promote democratic reforms among the petrol sheikdoms themselves. A third is to do both. Given the entry of India and China into the world petroleum market, fostering tighter global demand while potentially circumscribing our own clout, the hour is more urgent than ever; but the Middle East is also, and once again thanks to the ongoing reform of Iraq and Afghanistan, more fluid and perhaps more promising than ever.

Political initiatives come in more than one form. A more muscular way of dealing with autocratic regimes involves direct support for dissidents and pro-democratic reformers, including elected ones. Fair elections that lead to constitutional government should be a non-negotiable proposition; if Sunni or other extremists object, as in Iraq, then it might be made clear that they will be left to carry on a struggle not only against the majority of the local population but also against an internationally recognized government backed in the last resort by the American military. We wish to avoid civil war; but, like it or not, in championing the formerly despised of Iraq, the United States is engaged in landmark social, political, and cultural upheavals, and it is naïve to think that the Kurdish-Shiite coalition will be denied majority rule.

Iran is a locus classicus of what might be accomplished by encouraging indigenous grassroots reformers. The dilemma facing the United States is well known: stopping Iran's nuclear program is vital, yet both action and inaction have their unsavory costs. Unlike in Syria or in Saddam's Iraq, there is, by every credible report, broad and active internal opposition to the Iranian mullocracy. But not only would military action against Iran's dispersed nuclear installations be operationally difficult, but the ensuing worldwide hysteria would possibly embolden the regime to move against the dissidents (they were nearly wiped out during the 1980's under cover of Iran's war with Iraq).

Yet inaction, leading to an Iran armed with nuclear weapons, could yield the same deleterious effect: a triumphant regime now feeling secure enough to deal summarily with its internal opponents. In this wait-and-see moment, it is therefore all the more incumbent on the United States to step up its covert support for democratic dissidents. Even more importantly, today's underground reformers could be helped to evolve into openly organized groups, analogous to the refuseniks in the former Soviet Union, Solidarity in Poland, or the contras in Nicaragua-human-rights cadres capable of mounting a public campaign against the Iranian regime that might resonate in European capitals as well as among our own elites.
Such advocacy does not mean we should be in the business of selecting the leaders of these groups, let alone dictating their agendas or masterminding their tactics; those who suffer first-hand repression know better than we what needs to be done and how to go about doing it. But if America is to win the current death struggle in the Middle East, we must aggressively promote democratization in Iran-and Syria-before both of them undermine it across the border in Iraq.

In line with this ambitious agenda, there are also military options available. Bill Clinton's cruise missiles and four-day bombing campaigns-complete with mandatory cessations before Ramadan or reprieves when Arab royalty was reportedly lunching with would-be targets-were poor substitutes for real action. But under the present, radically changed conditions, stand-off bombing remains a valuable consideration. Unlike in the 1990's, the United States has already shown that it can and will topple Islamic fascists on the ground-that no tactic is any longer taboo for Americans. The old, post-Mogadishu charge that the United States will not risk a fight on the ground has been disproved. Thus, bombing can be an end in itself or a precursor to something more, and we can leave it to others to do the guessing as to which course we will follow.

Targets of retaliation from the air include potential nuclear-weapons plants, identified nationals conducting terrorist bombing operations abroad, or visible signs of material aid flowing to jihadists across a border. Military action of this kind would serve not only to erode a country's military assets and damage its infrastructure but to bring humiliation upon its ruling power. In some case, the threat of retaliation might itself suffice. If Syria, for example, continues to allow ex-Baathists to plot and fund insurrection in Iraq or to serve as a transit station for jihadists out to kill Americans, then Secretary of State Rice might present Bashar Assad with a list of military targets that could, without warning, be systematically destroyed from the air.

The problem with our 1990's air campaigns in Afghanistan, Iraq, and North Africa was transparent: our enemies knew that this was the last, not the first, stage of American retaliation and comprised the full extent of our military options. That perception is why we derived only a partial punitive benefit from Operation Desert Fox in Iraq or from striking back in Afghanistan and Sudan, and sparked little interest among the targeted in changing their ways. In the pre-9/11 world, such tactics were also largely predicated on the promise of few if any casualties, for us or even for our adversaries. Today's goal, by contrast, is to protect the democratic process in Afghanistan and Iraq against any in the region who threaten it, and to do so without necessarily investing American ground troops in additional theaters. For this, air power once again is a condign instrument.

Flexibility in response is essential in a war against diverse enemies. After the success of air campaigns in Kosovo and Serbia, some observers proclaimed a new age of Air-Force exclusivity. In Afghanistan, Americans riding on donkeys and calling in GPS coordinates from their laptops suggested still another radically new military paradigm. After the 2003 race to Baghdad and the retaking of Falluja in late 2004, we were happy we still had retrograde standbys like Abrams tanks and up-armored Humvees. The simple conclusion is that all assets and options are necessary, but not necessarily all the time.

America can always use more combat troops, planes, and ships, even if it is not advisable in every circumstance to pour assets into a theater in hopes that numbers can make up for what fighting alone can accomplish; the desirable size of the American military is not entirely the same issue as the proper number of soldiers to be deployed in any given situation. On the other hand, fighting need not take the identical form or incur the same costs everywhere. Another age-old lesson relearned from our experience in Iraq and Afghanistan is that victory in one battle increases the range of options in the next and lessens the military adventurism of our enemies-just as an American setback does the reverse.

The removal of the Taliban and the election of Hamid Karzai were of historic importance. So too was the end of the Saddam Hussein mafia, and so, following the present long ordeal, will be the Iraqi elections. Without a doubt, Saddam's Iraq was the most challenging of all the Middle East rogue regimes. The next step, reforming or changing the governments in Lebanon, Syria, and Iran demands its own flexible strategy and its own proper diplomatic and military calculus. But, contrary to the imagining of critics, the post-Iraq reformation of the Middle East will not necessarily have to be accomplished by the invasion of tens of thousands of American troops. Other remedies may well suit our national and humanitarian interests-strategies opened up, ironically, by our previous determination to use our ground forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as by our will to see the process through to its end, without hesitation, apology, or compromise.

Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and a regular columnist at National Review Online. His new book, A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War, is forthcoming from Random House in August.
 
The successful holding of elections in Iraq may be a catalyst for many changes in the region. Iran's pro democracy movement may be emboldened by this, and it certainly will cause reverberations in Syria and Saudi Arabia as well.

Iraq itself still has a long way to go, but here is an analogy which should offer hope:

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200501310748.asp
The Reachable Star
War-ravaged elections and human freedom.

In the short history of this novel democratic experiment, the national election would easily be the single most critical development ever...if there actually could be an election worthy of the name. That was in grave doubt.

That it should be this way was alarming. The military forces dispatched by the president of the United States enjoyed every apparent advantage. Nonetheless, the insurgency seemed impossible to quell, and victory proved elusive. The months wore on, frequently without progress, and always with steadily mounting losses. Scores upon scores of soldiers laid down their lives, and as the death count climbed, support for the war â ” so strong at the start â ” evaporated in many parts of the United States.

Naturally, the nay saying registered strongest in bastions of elite opinion. Pockets of the establishment press were sharply critical, accusing the administration of incoherence in justifying the war and articulating its aims. The U.S. Supreme Court also weighed in disapprovingly. The enemy had resorted to terrorist strikes. In response, the president asserted broad constitutional authority to suppress such threats to national security, including the extraordinary power to detain enemy operatives without criminal charges or trial in the civilian courts. Predictably, this controversial claim met with widespread protest. The president held firm, explaining his view that civilian courts were designed for the trials of individuals "in quiet times, and on charges well defined in the law"; to the contrary, he asserted, his administration was responding to the exigencies of war. Unimpressed, a prominent Supreme Court justice wrote an opinion insisting that those in custody had a right to challenge their detention in ordinary judicial proceedings.

The president, meanwhile remained politically embattled, detractors emerging on all sides. Some in his own Republican party chafed at what they saw as occasional ineptitude and loss of focus. For them, the need to take up arms against this foe had seemed compelling at first. But as the fighting wore on, and the public seemed to waver, they groused that the initial clarity of purpose had evolved into an unreachable star â ” a grand idealism, soaring in noble but impractical paeans about universal rights to freedom and social justice. That kind of victory, they worried, could not be achieved. They began to grumble about the need for an exit strategy before the inevitably disastrous political fallout.

The Democrats, of course, were not nearly as kind. As the defining election of their time drew near, their party's most prominent members â ” notwithstanding that our troops had fought bravely and were even then in harm's way â ” railed about the administration's "four years of failure" with its "experiment of war." In one of New York's most prominent publications, they derided the administration's "ignorance, incompetancy, and corruption." Their solution: Cut and run. In highest dudgeon, they blustered that "justice, humanity, liberty and the public welfare demand...a cessation of hostilities." The troops should be withdrawn, they counseled, with the enemy â ” fully appeased â ” free to determine the future course of the disputed territory, including the choice of whom to enslave.

The president would hear none of it. But as the election loomed, even important military victories were tainted by the malfeasance of some of the troops, who were alleged to have used disproportionate force, caused needless collateral damage, and been abusive toward those they had captured. Yes, the tide seemed to be turning favorably. But the cost of the war continued to run high â ” especially when a major offensive aimed at breaking the back of a key insurgent hub met vicious resistance, and our forces suffered significant casualties.

Even after all this time and effort, moreover, the enemy maintained a stranglehold on crucial population centers. Plainly, citizens in those areas â ” a very sizable portion of what would have been the overall electorate â ” would not participate in the voting. As a result, the would-be legitimacy of the election was hotly disputed, with some calling for it to be cancelled, or at least postponed until the security situation was more certain, more amenable to broader participation. Again, the president demurred. "The election," he declared, "was a necessity." A people, he admonished, "can not have free government without elections, and if the rebellion could force us to forego, or postpone a national election, it might fairly claim to have already conquered and ruined us."

The election thus went forward as scheduled. Millions were effectively disenfranchised, and the outcome of the war, and indeed the very fate of the great experiment in democracy, remained deeply in doubt. Still, the ballots were cast.

Americans owe their nation, their freedom, and a prosperity unknown in the history of mankind, to that election â ” the great election of November 1864. It bears remembering that today, as Iraqis take an enormous step toward self-determination and, perhaps, inject the microbes of democracy into the tyrannical dysfunction of our planet's most turbulent neighborhood.

The historical perspective is irresistible. The 1864 election did not merely secure the preservation of the Union â ” the casus belli around which the nation had originally rallied against the rebel states. Because Lincoln remained in office, his vision of ending the blight of slavery â ” a vision that was widely castigated as a pipedream by his allies and an outrage by his opponents â ” became a reality. President Bush has analogously traveled some distance from the cause of crushing Islamofascists who threaten U.S. national security. As his most recent inaugural address made clear, he has a grander vision of draining the terror swamps by sowing the seeds of democracy in soil whose arability (pardon the pun) is widely thought suspect. The success of this aspiration, to be sure, is uncertain. Monumental progress, however, can never be made without a bold conviction about the realm of the possible â ” conviction steeled to withstand such imprecations, as Democrats made in 1864 and echo today, that it is farcical, or incompetent, or corrupt.

War was hell then, as it is now. It was messy, and unpredictable â ” except to the extent that constancy of will, even in the darkest hours, was an essential ingredient if there was to be any prospect of victory. Elite opinion was often wrong â ” sometimes epically so. Hard decisions about the delicate balance between security and liberty had to be made â ” and the resulting tussles between Lincoln and Chief Justice Roger Taney over wartime detentions reverberate today as the Bush administration grapples with new Supreme Court rulings about the rights of enemy combatants.

Pre-election casualties in 1864 were staggering, and potentially destabilizing. When Grant attempted to break Confederate defenses at the stronghold of Petersburg on July 30, 1864, as Lincoln biographer David Herbert Donald has recounted, 4,000 men were killed or wounded, and the remaining 11,000 troops were compelled to retreat. By comparison, the fierce fighting by which American forces finally succeeded in crushing the terrorist base in Falluja was a raging success â ” and with a bare fraction of the casualties. Further, while our indignation at the abuses of Abu Ghraib persists, the historian Paul Johnson has observed that Sherman's scorched-earth march on Atlanta resulted in mass slaughter, extensive destruction of civilian infrastructure, looting and other atrocities. It is remembered today as a legendary campaign.

And consider this. When we nearly lost our Union, it stood on the foundation of centuries of essentially common culture, as well as decades of experience as a constitutional democracy. The Iraqis, by contrast, are inching forward with multiple cultures (some harboring ancient animosities), with a people who did not so much develop as a nation as they were stitched together by the victorious World War I powers' divvying of the Ottoman Empire spoils, and with no democratic tradition. In that light, their participation in a democratic election only months after Saddam Hussein's removal is nothing short of remarkable. And while large swaths of the Sunni territories remain under terrorist siege and thus, as a practical matter, shut out of this seminal Iraqi election, it is worth bearing in mind that, as the Civil War raged, there was no federal electoral voting in eleven seceded Confederate states â ” by comparison, a far greater percentage of the then-U.S. population did not participate in the election of 1864.

Still, Abraham Lincoln was reelected as the legitimate president of the United States, and the result altered history. Without that election, there is no Union as we know it, no end of slavery, no Fourteenth Amendment, and no march to American civil rights that are, now, the envy of the world. It should humble a proud people that this progress took us over a century to complete.

Today is a day to rejoice over progress that is historically startling. In far less than a century, it may transform the world. Or it may not. But as we watch this Iraqi achievement, this is a day for American pride and humility, not gracelessness and nitpicking.

â ” Andrew C. McCarthy, who led the 1995 terrorism prosecution against Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
 
Make Up Your Mind
The Left's national-security schizophrenia.

It is too late in the day to rehearse why anyone not wearing a tinfoil hat to guard against invasive gamma rays should avoid squandering valuable time on anything written by Seymour Hersh. Been there, done that (see here) - as have NR's John J. Miller and, only recently, Michael Ledeen and Max Boot.

There is, however, something interesting about the latest glimpse into the Pulitzer-laureate's alternative universe. Yes, of course it's yet another "Dude, the Neocons Are Stealing My Country" rant (actually called "The Coming Wars - What the Pentagon Can Now Do in Secret"). And yes, notwithstanding apparent errors and internal inconsistencies, it still somehow managed to get past those exacting fact-checkers at The New Yorker - the ones editor David Remnick recently hyped (in a forward to Hersh's last book) as the justification for continuing to give Hersh license to litter the magazine's pages with unaccountable, unverifiable innuendo. But if we leave Hersh's details aside, there is much to be gleaned from his choice of subject matter.

What has Hersh atwitter this time is that the Bush administration may actually be making contingency plans for military operations against Iran. We can and should assume that this is true - though not because Hersh is reporting it. It should be true because it would be national suicide if it weren't. So the questions are (a) why is this a story at all, and (b) is the Left ever going to get adult about national security? In fact, on the latter, we might even be grateful if they could crank it up to adolescent.

If one were a cynic (not me, of course), one might conclude that the Left - or at least that faction of it now running the asylum - is serious about only one thing: hardcore politics. It looks at each new scenario as it arises, detached from any sense of history or priority, and asks not "How does this affect the national security of the United States?" but rather "How do we score some points here to get back in the game?"

The Kerry campaign exhibited this phenomenon in small but telling compass: Having supported the Iraq war when the wind was blowing that way, vote against financing it when things get rough. Having gutted intelligence funding to feed at the social-welfare trough of a naïve "peace dividend," become indignant about unconnected dots when an intelligence calamity occurs during a Republican administration. Having screamed about the patent virtues of multilateral diplomacy when the president held firm on Iraq, decry the patent defects of multilateral diplomacy when the president tries it in North Korea. And so on.

The conventional post-election wisdom is that Senator Kerry was a weak candidate, but more and more it's apparent that the message is a bigger problem than the messenger. When it comes to the public welfare, the Left is not serious. Going berserk over the possibility that the officials charged with protecting us may be thinking about ways to address Iran, our nation's top security threat, is testament to the fact that Kerry may be gone but the problem isn't.

Having a contingency plan does not mean we anticipate invading tomorrow. It means, ironically enough, having a "plan" in the event a "contingency" occurs. One elementary task of intelligence is to identify contingencies - i.e., things that are within the realm of the conceivable, and for which we need countermeasures at the ready - so that we can stop them from happening, make them less likely to happen, and react effectively if they do happen.

The 9/11 Commission comes to mind. The Left liked it well enough when some of its Democratic members were portraying Bush administration officials as asleep at the wheel in the months before the attacks, and when its proposals for streamlining obstacles to intelligence-sharing were to create new layers of government bureaucracy. Nonetheless, among its major findings were multiple failures of creative planning - which stretched back for years. Most pertinent for present purposes is its account of the days just after the suicide hijackings:

    President Bush recalled that he quickly realized that the administration would have to invade Afghanistan with ground troops. But the early briefings to the President and Secretary Rumsfeld on military options were disappointing. Tommy Franks, the commanding general of Central Command (CENTCOM), told us that the President was dissatisfied. The U.S. military, Franks said, did not have an off-the-shelf plan to eliminate the al Qaeda threat in Afghanistan. (Final Report, p. 332)

Is that the flat-footed state of affairs we want for Iran? Enemies who believe we are either unwilling or unable to respond effectively are much more likely to attack us.

Prior to 9/11, Iran's wholly owned subsidiary, Hezbollah, had killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization on the planet. The 1983 attack on the marine barracks in Lebanon and the 1996 bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia (which collectively killed 260 American military personnel) tell only a small part of the story. For years, Hezbollah has provided al Qaeda with training. Iran, meantime, has given safe harbor to high-ranking al Qaeda members (under the charade of house arrest) - effectively making them untouchable short of an invasion. Iran has likely backed Muqtadar al-Sadr's destabilizing Mahdi Army in Iraq, and likely has a cooperative relationship with Iraq terror "emir" Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. It is working energetically behind the scenes to kill American forces and cause the failure of our mission. It is going nuclear, if it hasn't gone already. And its saber-rattling about attacking Israel and American interests has become steadily more provocative. The authentic scandal here would be if we weren't making some kind of plan.

Which, naturally, is the next point. Let's say we did not make any contingency plans and Iran, tomorrow, did precisely what it has been threatening to do. What would we be hearing from Sy Hersh and his fellow-travelers? Exactly what we heard from all these folks when they woke up on September 12, 2001, and suddenly decided there was some political hay to be made in taking on the mantel of stalwart security hawks: "Where was the preparation? Since we knew Iran was dangerous, why weren't its threats taken more seriously? Why wasn't everyone at 'battle stations' like we were back in those super-competent days of the Y2K crisis?" (By the way, if you're trying to pinpoint those days, they occurred roughly a year after these hawks did nothing about the embassy bombings and a year before they did nothing about the Cole bombing.)

It's a dangerous world out there. Entirely independent of Iran, China gazes longingly at Taiwan; North Korea, run by a crazy person, is nuclear power; the simmering India-Pakistan conflict could heat up anew; militant Islam's genocide policy in Sudan could become so unsightly as (finally) to demand a global response; Putin's latent revanchism could send further tremors through vulnerable former Soviet satellites; terrorism in Iraq could spike again even after the historic elections; the Europeans could have another Madrid; or we could be directly targeted for another domestic attack. And those are only some of the known unknowns.

We can hope nothing bad happens. Perhaps some of us can delude ourselves, even as palpable dangers beckon, that we have reached an epoch, heretofore unknown in the history of time, when bad things that profoundly affect us no longer happen. But for the rest of us, we need a plan. We need lots of plans - at least one for every contingency, along with a humble hope that, for all the billions spent on sustaining and refurbishing the intelligence community, someone better informed than we are is spotting other contingencies and making other plans.

The Left and its allied media (like Hersh, who continues, with lots of help, to pose as an objective reporter) are playing a dangerous game here. If the actual thinking-through of national security becomes a political liability, the more timorous among the political class will stop doing it, or at least do a lot less of it. The "thinking outside the box" that the Commission concluded was sorely lacking will entirely disappear. Maybe the Left then scores some points in the public-relations environment it is laboring to design, but we'll all be a lot less safe.

That's why it shouldn't take another 3,000 dead people for us to say: "The Pentagon damn well better be thinking about Iran!"

- Andrew C. McCarthy, who led the 1995 terrorism prosecution against Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
 
Currently the favored option: http://regimechangeiran.blogspot.com/2005/02/reading-tea-leaves-bushs-strategy-on.html

Wednesday, February 02, 2005
Reading the tea leaves - Bush's Strategy on Iran

I believe the President has settled on the direction he is going to pursue with Iran. If I am reading the tea leaves correctly, it would appear a pattern has begun to emerge in the recent statements by President Bush, Condolezza Rice and others.

What is the new strategy?

Let's begin with President Bush's State of the Union speech. The President warned the Iranian regime that he is willing to significantly ramp up his support for the Iranian people:

    "And to the Iranian people, I say tonight:

    As you stand for your own liberty, America stands with you."

The President has recently warned Iran to end its nuclear enrichment program and that he has not taken the military option off the table. At the same time, he also made clear his interest in pursuing a "diplomatic solution."

Why A diplomatic solution?

First, military action in Iran would likely be counter productive. Military action would almost certainly have the unintended consequence of killing large numbers of civilians and thus create a "rally around the government" effect. This would provide a tremendous opportunity for the regime to argue that the US government does not really "care about the people" of Iran. Thus alienating the very people we want to support.

Second, it is also unlikely that such military action could permanently stop Iran's nuclear effort. To accomplish this would require an invasion of Iran and therefore a much larger military force than we have available at this time, so we are told.

Third, Europe is unlikely to ever support military action against Iran and the US public would also find it hard to support it unless there was an imminent threat. (Nearly everyone would want irrefutable proof of Iran's nuclear weapons program).

So what options are left?

An effective non military response to the Iranian threat would require the administration find an issue that is universally accepted in order to gain international support. Such international support was essential in the recent popular revolt in the Ukraine.

Such an issue already exists.

I believe the issue the administration intends to focus on is human rights in Iran.

If you follow the news on Iran, the administration has begun focusing on the human rights issue as it relates to Iran. Here are a few examples:

President Bush alluded to it in his inaugural address:

    From the day of our Founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this earth has rights, and dignity, and matchless value, because they bear the image of the Maker of Heaven and earth. Across the generations we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave. Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our Nation. It is the honorable achievement of our fathers. Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation's security, and the calling of our time. ...

    America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains, or that women welcome humiliation and servitude, or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies.

    We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people. America's belief in human dignity will guide our policies, yet rights must be more than the grudging concessions of dictators; they are secured by free dissent and the participation of the governed. In the long run, there is no justice without freedom, and there can be no human rights without human liberty.

Condoleezza Rice:

    Iranians "suffer under a regime that has been completely unwilling to deal with their aspirations and that has an appalling human rights record". BBC

Even Senator Brownback, the new chairman of the Helsinki Commission says he plans to highlight Iranian human rights issues with Europe. The NY Sun reports:

    The plan by Senator Brownback, a Republican from Kansas, is in keeping with the president's commitment to spread freedom throughout the world...

    Senator Brownback said he planned to publicize the plight of Iranian dissidents in hearings before the Helsinki Commission, the American body created in 1976 to engage the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe on their treatment of political prisoners and human rights. American envoys would often read the names of political prisoners aloud at commission-related meetings, at first to embarrass their Soviet counterparts. Later this technique proved effective, when in the twilight of the Cold War many political prisoners were released.

    "We are going to bring up human rights issues and what is taking place in Iran aggressively," he said.

Europe and the UN have a long history of advocating human rights. Europe has tied increased trade with Iran to improvements in their human rights record. European leaders advocacy for Human Rights in Iran bought them popular political support at home at very little cost.

Europeans are proud of their leaders stand for Human Rights. It was no surprise to Europeans that the Iranian human rights lawyer, Shirin Ebadi, won the 2003 Nobel Peace Prize.

If the US makes Human Rights in Iran a centerpiece of its Iran policy, the EU and the UN will have to support it. Russia and China would find it difficult to oppose it.

President Bush's support for "their issue" will likely be perceived by Europeans generally as a European victory. Popular support could force their leaders to join the US effort.

If Iran refuses to permanently end its uranium enrichment program, as they claim, the EU will have to withdraw its offer of increased trade.

Instead, I would then expect an ever increasing demand of the international community to end all trade (the EU's only real weapon) until the regime guarantees the Iranian people's human rights.

Already British firms such as BP have declared that they will not invest further in Iran. US firms have also taken similar positions and I expect we will see an ever growing number of international firms ending their business relations with the Iranian regime.

Why will this help bring down the regime?

First, the people of Iran will at long last receive the international attention and support they have been pleading for. This support will encourage the people to stand against the regime and various elements in government will be forced to decide whether to support the people of Iran or their unpopular leaders.

Thus the regime will face a serious dilemma.

On the one hand, cracking down on dissent will further alienate the regime and likely result in an end to international investments/trade in Iran.

On the other hand, the regime cannot comply with this without risking encouraging a popular revolt.

Iran's presidential elections are scheduled for June. The hardline elements in Iran have been hoping to further consolidate their power and will not likely be interested in being pressured by the international community on human rights.

If the Iranian regime cracks down on popular dissent this time, the international community will be watching as never before. Crack downs will lead to further doubts by the international business community. As more firms pull away from Iran, investment dollars will dry up.

Iran needs the investment dollars to keep the regime in power. Unemployment is already unbearable. Significant increases in unemployment will only fuel more civil unrest.

It would appear the regime will be in a no win situation.

President Bush is about to travel to Europe. If I am right, we will see a mending of relations and a new unity among the US and the EU.

Time appears to be running out for the Mullahs of Iran. It may prove to be a very hot summer in Iran.
 
Hello, I'm new here. :) Just thought I'd give my two loonies worth.

I see very little mentioned about Russia here. I think we have to look at a broader war in the coming years. I do not believe it will simply be Syria and Iran. I see the United States, and perhaps a few other allies invading Syria. For what reason I don't know, but I suspect it will be relatively soon. I do believe that Syria played a huge role in the removal of assorted WMD in Iraq. I suspect strongly that Russia played a role and that a lot of this is being kept from the public in the interest of better relations and Russia cooperation in the War on Terror. I think when Douglas Feith mentioned something about classified documents about that in public he was not doing it purely for politics as suggested. Nor do I believe the debunkers are accurate. There is a lot of desire in Russia and bitterness over the USAs actions in Afghanistan which was a major reason for the deconstruction of the Soviet Empire. I believe that constant calls in the media comparing Iraq to Vietnam is wishful thinking on many peoples parts, and also part of a plan of action on the part of west's enemies. It is clear that Iran and Syria are both funding directly, using highly trained operatives, the Iraqi resistance. The problem is not a lot of thought (public at least) is going into the question of: "Who is funding the funders?". If you look carefully you will see many strong links from Iran and Syria back to Russia. Russia is involved heavily in the Iranian nuclear program, which I surely hope no one here truely believes the Mullahs when they state it is for peaceful purposes. When there are threats against Iran and it's military complexes, the threat is to Russia and it's enormous investments in Iran. Russia is a very poor country, and I do not think it will take kindly to losing more billions. With US bases in former Soviet territory, and Ukraine beiing torn from it's grasp. There is little doubt whom they consider the real threat. Just recently there was a report that Russia had upped it's foreign information collection the US (spying) back to cold war levels. Which is pretty darn high. I have a feeling they are not just collecting data. There is a considerable selection of the population world wide that could be brought under their sway. I even see some anti-american memes being displayed in this very thread. I think my fellow Canadians need to realize fairly soon that us (the general Canadian population, not necessarily you, the reader) constantly denegrating the US on it's efforts in Iraq, does not help our mission any in Afghanistan.

If we watch the rising tide of anti-americanism and anti-sematism, often becoming linked, we can see how they are directing their useful idiots in a manner as to prevent a workable missile shield, and to prevent any sort of action that could bring about a realistic peace in the middle east. Interestingly enough it is often under the guise of peace groups that this is conducted. Ultimately, I do believe 100% that we in the west will be hit with a very large surprise attack shortly after the United States attacks Syria. I am sure we will prevail but I am also equally sure that it will not be fighting ragtag militia. They will be of the same generation of warriors. I think that Canada largely has taken it's eye off the ball, at least in the public sector, to the undercurrents of our society. Just today I saw in the mall a watch with the old hammer and sickle on it proudly displayed at a watch store. I thought, "that's fashionable now??". I see people who walk around wearing Che Guevara tshirts and hats, most of them don't even know who the guy is. When you ask ask tell them who he was, often you'll get "yeah, he faught the americans, about time someone stood up to those imperialists" or some stupid tripe like that. Now people may be thinking I have strayed from the topic here with my long drawn out rant. :p Rest assured, it's all part of the same motion. It's not necessarily communist inspired, but it uses any artifact or symbol of any power, ideology or icon that has challenged the US. This sudden torrent didnt just materialise because of the Iraq war. It materalized because the wests enemies are scared as hell. They don't have a lot left to grasp on to and they saw a point they could clutch and make their mantra. Anti-sematism and anti-americanism are rife in many places in Europe, and I do believe that because of this, NATO is basically a shell organization when the "fit hits the shan", Canada shouldn't count on them to help us in this fight. Should America be hit hard enough to make an invasion possible, is Canada going to be able to defend it's economic centres from capture? Remeber the Russians have the missiles that can knock American planes and sats out of the sky and the mines and launchers that can take out American tanks far easier than those old Soviet era weapons used in Iraq. This would not be anything close to a cakewalk. This would be a very fast paced, bitter war. I have mentioned this to many of my fellow Canadians and they think it's crazy or unlikely. For some reason we seem to think the rest of the world is realist, rational, or even pacifist. That an attack against the United States is impossible, simply due to it's size. Many of these people also thought Kerry would win. :p Well if Iraq works out, and it looks like it is slowly. We can see an Iraqi army being an American ally (despite a lot of hearsay, Iraqis are quite nationalistic, not likely to bind into a civil war).

Now if an enemy of the USA wanted to attack. Where would it be at it's weakest point? It certainly would not be after it has democratized the middle east. It certainly would not be after it mass manufactures next generation equipment. It would be after the US enters another campain. In this fog of war, I could see it very likely that high tech weapons will be given to Syria and Iran. World opinion of the US would nose dive, and if the US can gather any allies to attack Syria other than Israel and Australia it might be a bit of luck. Now amid this confusion, the US would have lost several of it's jets and taken more substantial loses than in Iraq. Syrian generals have learned that the US is quite serious and will likely have already prepared for an insurgancy campain, and will llikely use every tactic in the book. Now you'll have a more thinned out fully engaged US military. Battle weary but experienced. Public opinion in the floors. It would be relatively easy for foreign recruiters to turn many to them and likely bring a few more nations into this anti-american alliance. Possibly even forment a small revolt within the US itself.

Yes the public veneer of Russia is of a new partnership, and the EU as a benign union, supposedly not replacing NATO (emphasis on "supposedly"). I think we need to realistically view our defence policy, free from any politicians clap traps or snide remarks. It's one thing to hate a mans swager, it's another to give support to men who want us dead.The Iraqi elections did put a huge dent in a portion of the criticism but the threat is still a very real threat. Because I suspect that in the future, Canada will be involved in some way in these "wars of the future". I also suspect it will not be very similar to the Three Block War we are preparing for. I just hope we are not playing catch up when it's too late.

That's how I see it. :)  May not be a popular or brief opinion, but it's mine. :D

Rational opinions/comments/concerns welcome. :D

- D

*dons flack jacket* *slips in a ceramic plate* *runs away!*
 
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