IAP/BOTC

[bgc_fan]

To add my 2 cents, part of it is timing since it seems that a lot of Phase 3 or Phase 4 courses may only run once a year depending on your trade. For example, as an engineering candidate, I started BOTC in Sept-Dec. and then SLT until May, CAP from May to Aug. and now am doing OJT while I wait for Phase 3 which is only offered in May, meaning I finish training in Apr 2007. Likewise, I have an infantry friend who did Phase 3 in the summer, but has to wait for Phase 4 in May 2006.

On the other hand, if I got exempted from SLT I could have ran through CAP from Jan-May, Phase 3 last summer and doing Phase 4 now, meaning I would finish in Apr 2006.

Thanks so much kincanuck! 
 
How are all those steps (BOTC, SLT, CAP, Phase 3 and 4) spread out for DEO candidates?

Are they run consecutively or are there (a month..6 months..year?) in between.  I am not trying to be a pain but I have a family of five I support and planning for when and for how long I will be away from home is very important.

 

[23353]

Some clarification on summer training for RMC cadets...

Previously RMC cadets did IAP/BOTP in one summer and in both cases the two courses were slimmed down by a couple of weeks. RMC cadets were not taught the part of the course known as Annex G, basically mess diners and other random stuff. Instead they learned this stuff over their FYOP period and the rest of the academic year at RMC.

Civi-U guys would do IAP, and then BOTP/SLT the summer afterwards.

Apparently Borden (I believe that they are in charge of the training system) wanted to change this so that a more standardized approach was taken to IAP/BOTP. As of the summer of 2004 the training system was changed to this.

IMHO this is both good and bad. While it makes sense for students who are not yet bilingual, the bilingual ones seem to have a "wasted" summer on random OJTs. More importantly they aren't introduced to Gagetown properly i.e. A pacestick upside the head 

IAP/BOTP is fairly useless anyway. The leadership 'tests' are fairly weak in my opinion, and anyone in the army will have much harder leadership obstacles to overcome and prove themselves. The only thing I can take from IAP/BOTP is drill and the orders format, maybe how to get dressed.

Thats all I've got...

Oh and the summer serial of CAP should start around the end of May or beginning of June. Have fun on that one!

 

[bbbb]

Splitting Basic over two summers was a strange thing to do. It means that those people will have to wait until they finish at least their 2nd year before doing SLT or phase 2.

 

[Ranger Al]

I was told today by an OCdt that finished IAP/BOTP in April that there are plans to change the program for next summer. Maybe all of us enrolled for IAP this summer and BOTP next summer are meant to partake in this new program during BOTP?? Just a thought.

-Al

 

[andpro]

Civilian university Candidates:

First summer - IAP
Second summer - BOTP
Third Summer - Occupation Training
Fourth summer - SLT

    I have been accepted into ROTP at a civilian university, and have not yet received any dates for my IAP so I am assuming that I will be one of the people who wait for the next year. As I a taking my university in french immersion and also plan to minor in french, will I be required to take second language training If I pass a test? If so would I have to do a military test or would a bilingualism test from my university count?

 

[Infanteer]

You'll have a chance to challenge the Public Service Test during your stay in St Jean.  If you achieve a certain level of proficiency (dependent on your trade, but usually BAB), you will skip Second Language Training.

 

[AmphibousAssult]

Quick Question here guys, how does IAP/BOTC compare to BMQ/SQ for non-coms. (just trying to reakte what im going to be doing to what I've already done.) thanks.

 

[kincanucks]

reakte

What?

 

[Cress]

reakte

What?

He meant "relate". Just had a little typing problem.

 

[Infanteer]

Quick Question here guys, how does IAP/BOTC compare to BMQ/SQ for non-coms. (just trying to reakte what im going to be doing to what I've already done.) thanks.

On IAP/BOTC there is less drill and range time, but you handle small party tasks.  In BOTC specifically, you deal with instructional techniques, the military estimate, and reams of powerpoint lectures on leadership.  Other than that, neither course is really more than making a basic soldier/officer who can march, salute and put their clothes on right - many who pass can't even get those right....

 

[kincanucks]

Well after doing both, albeit Cornwallis and Chilliwack, I found BOTC easier.  Easier in that I could skip over the polishing my shoes and learning how to make a bed properly and concentrate on how to put the freaking rucksack together as I had just come for the Navy and had never seen one before.

 

[AmphibousAssult]

hmmm, maybe I should type a lil slower next time...., thanks for the input guys.

 

[Lumber]

    I have been accepted into ROTP at a civilian university, and have not yet received any dates for my IAP so I am assuming that I will be one of the people who wait for the next year. As I a taking my university in french immersion and also plan to minor in french, will I be required to take second language training If I pass a test? If so would I have to do a military test or would a bilingualism test from my university count?

As far as I have been told (recruiting centre and OCdts from RMC) any Civi U test would mean squat. You have to take the military's 'Second Language Proficiency Test' or you're BBB as they are called. Its known as your 'BBB' because to 'pass' and get out of Second Language Training you need a grade of B or greater (ABCD scale) in each of the three categories, Reading, Writing and Oral.

From what I can tell, and I hope others can confirm this, is that if you receive your BBB, instead of doing SLT after BOTC during your second summer, you instead do OJT. This I know is the case, here is the question: talking with 2nd and 3rd year OCdts, they say that doing SLT is wayyyy better than OJT. For OJT, you could get placed at a recruiting centre (decent job) or you coul'd get stuck at Gagetown doing nothing but laundry day after day for the whole summer. They said most OJT positions suck just like. They say that SLT on the other hand is a 3 hour class every morning for 4 or 5 weeks. The rest of the day is spent in civies doing whatever you like. You even get a dorm room to yourself where you can have a frigde stocked with beer.

Any thoughts, confirmations or rebukes on that last part? 

 

[Japexican]

Yep, SLT was an all day affair just like school, for 7 weeks (for RMC guys last year) and it gets old pretty quick (taking a single subject all day with the same teacher).  However, the breaks are long, it is fun to speak (butcher) another language, and hang out with the buds.  If you are in the army then I would say that SLT probably is better than an OJT in G-town, but for the air force and navy guys it is better to grab your B's and go to Halifax, or Comox or wherever and learn about your trade.  You are allowed to have beer, but if too many people act stupidly, they take away the privilege.  On a final note, you must be wary of the elevators, they never work when you want them to.

 

[Kid_X]

So, if my IAP/BOTC is deferred to 2007 (year 2), would I do second language training in the summer of year 3?  What if that interferes with Military Occupational Training?  And for a pilot, when does Military Occupational Training start?  Also, I am fluent in both french and english, but being in Air, what would be recommended... make sure to get a C in oral or something to do SLT, or pass it all and do OJT in Comox (if at all possible, it's one of my preferred posting choices).

 

[Kid_X]

Yeah, but it was mentioned OJT in Gagetown is a waste of time, I wouldn't mind doing extra training for pilot at all, I would actually much prefer that (I burned all my notes and homework, especially grammar from french class, yesterday) to another french class... but If I'm gonna be stuck doing laundry for a summer... I'd rather take a refresher course.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Just for the record, the grading system is X,A,B,C,E, where 'X' is no discernable ability and 'E' is perfectly bilingual (Exempt for life from further testing).  It is the same test for the rest of the Public Service in Canada.

We were told (I just got out of SLT 3 weeks ago) that the standard for DEOs was B-A-B (reading-grammar-oral) and RMCs B-B-B (I don't know which standard applies to ROTP CiviU), but the difference is a bit of a moot point because just about everyone who can achieve a 'B' in oral will get Bs or better in reading & grammar.

Apparently, anyone can challenge the Public Function Test prior to attending SLT, and a B-A-B (or B-B-B, as the case may be) will exempt the candidate from having to attend SLT.  Once you are at SLT however, you have to pass a series of tests (the '401' and '402', as they are known) and get a recommendation from the staff prior to writing the Public Function Test (and you are supposed to pass other tests (COCOMS) to allow you to write the 401 & 402).  Also, if you write the Public Function Test and fail to achieve the B-A-B standard, you will be kept at the school for the duration of the course.

Oh yeah, the amount of homework varies quite a lot between classes/professors.

Bonne chance tout le monde!

 

[Kid_X]

Alright, awesome, thank you both.  Now someone mentioned Comox as a place to do OJT, I'm looking at being a pilot, what would be something for me to look into during "reading week" (spring break) at Civie U or the summers that I don't have any training?

 

[Crimmsy]

Typical OJT's during reading week that I saw people going to which may interest you included Cuba, Mexico, the Dominican, etc. Me, I preferred places like Big White - I burn easily. In other words, reading week is vacation time (except in 4th year. I took two days off then went back to the lab for the rest of the week to bash out the thesis). During the summers you can ask to be sent to just about any unit in the air force.

If you have a few summers of this, you may want to consider checking out different communities to get a closer look at how they operate, what the lifestyle is like (albiet you'll only get the ops desk perspective - you'll rarely [read: almost never] deploy with your squadron. I do recall hearing of one guy who got to go to Norway with a CF-18 det to work the ops desk there).

In my OJT time, I worked at a Maritime Helo squadron and at a Tactical Airlift squadron, seeing both of those operations helped me make up my mind about where I wanted to work.

 

[scholesy]

The SLT conversation seems to be pretty much up to speed, but I'll add a few of the things that I've heard as to what is going on for IAP/BOTC.  I was in one of the first serials to go through the split-over-2 summers style course and I found that BOTC was more or less a repeat (with a few new leadership powerpoint shows) of IAP.  Fortunatley, the new CO of St-Jean has decided to switch a few things up for BOTC this year.  He has made the formerly ridiculous taskings of rope bridge building, lifting of transformers, etc into "combat taskings".  I do not know precisely what is meant by that, but it somewhere along the lines of section attacks and the like.  I have also heard in the rumour mill that is RMC that IAP/BOTC have been moved back to a one summer course.  In my opinion, that is a HUGE blessing for new candidates.

Best of luck to those of you heading off in the next week or two to the MEGA.  My advice is work hard, and play their game - the summer will be over before you know it!