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Houthi Red Sea Blockade

Israel probably doesn't really need help. Ukraine does, but which countries can provide aid without essentially having to borrow the money first? Which voters are willing to bear that cost? And what kind of spending are voters/politicians prepared to cut in order to pay for aid?

Wait and see whether the economic costs rise to the level of putting more fiscal pressure on ordinary people. Then maybe there will be some popular support for a solution which escalates the fight.
The fiscal pressure isn't appreciated by people on this forum.... nobody here is likely in the demographic that is suffering.


National unity is over-rated.

Looking over those articles it is interesting to note that "Official" Labour supported total war after Uncle Joe was invaded by Hitler in 1941 but the Workers were still inclined to fight their own bread and butter issues by striking despite the war.

And people were being arrested for pro-nazi, pro-fascist and pro-communist simpathies in liberal democracies.

Life is complicated. 90% approval ratings, such as George W. Bush achieved in Sept 2001 don't happen often and don't last long.
No but those are generally what allow Govts to act decisively.
 
The fiscal pressure isn't appreciated by people on this forum.... nobody here is likely in the demographic that is suffering.


No but those are generally what allow Govts to act decisively.

But sometimes one finds Governments Politicians People willing to act decisively regardless of the popular will.

He either fears his Fate too much,
Or his Deserts are small,
That puts it not unto the Touch,
To win or lose it all. …

What are your principles worth?
 
Exactly, but look at War support. Probably 50%+ of Americans would pull the plug on Ukraine or Israeli immediately if given a say.

This is reflected in polling and in law makers decisions:

Ukraine support polls at over 60%, Israeli support polls similar - heck even Fox News has admitted this. The only issues pop up when items are intermingled, as support for 1 doesn’t necessarily equal support for the other.

One of the biggest issues is not support, but how the Biden administration has approached both conflicts. Americans want to see wins, so far the Biden Administration hasn’t articulated how Ukraine wins and what is being done for that.


The same goes for a number of other theatres.
 
Ukraine support polls at over 60%, Israeli support polls similar - heck even Fox News has admitted this. The only issues pop up when items are intermingled, as support for 1 doesn’t necessarily equal support for the other.

One of the biggest issues is not support, but how the Biden administration has approached both conflicts. Americans want to see wins, so far the Biden Administration hasn’t articulated how Ukraine wins and what is being done for that.


The same goes for a number of other theatres.
Which polls? That's not what I am seeing or reading?


America in a nutshell:


Hubris is our biggest enemy when it comes to actually solving issues right now IMO.
 
Which polls? That's not what I am seeing or reading?

There are more if you want
America in a nutshell:


Hubris is our biggest enemy when it comes to actually solving issues right now IMO.
I don’t disagree on that, but I think the other issue is the reluctance to understand that some solutions require overwhelming firepower to solve.
 
Is there any difference in the risk faced by French ships versus U.S.?
No, but the French want to escort their own nations ships, and feel free to launch atttacks on ground bases that launch attacks at them or the commercial ships. The biggest point of conflict seems to be the fact the USN is willing to launch attacks on the launch sites.
 
One of the biggest issues is not support, but how the Biden administration has approached both conflicts. Americans want to see wins, so far the Biden Administration hasn’t articulated how Ukraine wins and what is being done for that.

Nailed it. Well said.
 
Exactly, but look at War support. Probably 50%+ of Americans would pull the plug on Ukraine or Israeli immediately if given a say.

This is reflected in polling and in law makers decisions:

would pull the plug on any war. For all our failings and those of our immediate predecessors, people enjoy a much higher quality of life because of the freedoms our western beliefs and faith have provided. Russia and China in particular have been working diligently for the past 5 decades minimum to undermine those beliefs and the woke generation is evidence of their success. They have instilled guilt where there should be pride.
 
No, but the French want to escort their own nations ships, and feel free to launch atttacks on ground bases that launch attacks at them or the commercial ships. The biggest point of conflict seems to be the fact the USN is willing to launch attacks on the launch sites.
Is it certain that there isn’t? If the French flagged vessels aren’t moving goods to or from or on behalf of Israel, and if France isn’t seen as solidly backing Israel, and if France is also willing to punch back hard if messed with, I could see the Houthis leaving their ships be. The Houthis are doing this to try to isolate Israel. The U.S. is an obvious adversary to their efforts. France may not be?
 
Ukraine support polls at over 60%, Israeli support polls similar - heck even Fox News has admitted this. The only issues pop up when items are intermingled, as support for 1 doesn’t necessarily equal support for the other.

One of the biggest issues is not support, but how the Biden administration has approached both conflicts. Americans want to see wins, so far the Biden Administration hasn’t articulated how Ukraine wins and what is being done for that.


The same goes for a number of other theatres.
The problem looks something like what Jerry Pournelle used to mention, one iteration of which was this one:

"If we want Gaddafi dead, tell Delta Force to go do it. If that is too drastic, then just what should we do? A long time ago Allard Lowenstein said to me about Viet Nam, "You want to win it and get out. I just want to get out. But McGeorge Bundy and the Johnson people want to lose it and stay in." I do not want Libya, Afghanistan, or Iraq to be places where we lose it and stay in."

All places people "stayed in", and ultimately lost. (What happened to Libya afterwards cannot be accounted a "win".) Anyone learn anything yet? Not the Democrats; they have a long tradition of throwing away hard-earned results after doing just enough to keep things going until the public got tired enough ("war exhaustion") and the political cost of throwing away the "win" became negligible. Not the neo-cons; they're still bellicose and incompetent imperialist wannabes, and re-electing Trump would be a small price (accounted world-wide) compared to the "broken windows" cost avoided by keeping them away from the White House.

Ukraine is looking like a place where its international backers are willing to do enough to keep it going, but not to win it. So just get out now. And if no-one's going to fix the Houthi problem at the source without dragging it out, just get out and go ahead with "routing around the damage".

I reiterate that both the Democrats and establishment Republicans are responsible for the decades of flushing treasure and lives down the drain without much to show for it. And now that practically everyone (as in, nations) has spent themselves into severe debt, with large deficits, exactly how the heck does anyone expect to intervene?

Meanwhile, I suppose all the would-be troublemakers have noticed that "The West" has gotten way out over its skis in domestic spending commitments (certainly true for US and Canada) and is quickly draining capabilities without ramping up replenishment. Over-spending has some pretty far-reaching consequences.
 
Welcome to the expansion of WW3
The deals the West - the USA and others - made with Iran are like the chickens 🐓 coming home to roost.
This is a regime that murders its own. Why do you think they can be trusted is beyond my limited comprehension
 
The deals the West - the USA and others - made with Iran are like the chickens 🐓 coming home to roost.
This is a regime that murders its own. Why do you think they can be trusted is beyond my limited comprehension
And another thing to consider.....

who says.... they don't already have nuclear weapons? 🤨
 
With what?

boom smile GIF
 
But again, with what? Obviously Israel’s not about to nuke Yemen. Are you imagining a scenario where they overfly a 3000km round trip through Saudi airspace to magically solve the Houthis with some smart bombs?
 
But again, with what? Obviously Israel’s not about to nuke Yemen. Are you imagining a scenario where they overfly a 3000km round trip through Saudi airspace to magically solve the Houthis with some smart bombs?

1703375444645.png
11 hr 5 min (1,044.9 km) via Route 1


1703375549121.png

72 hr (4,637.1 km) via Kampala - Gulu Hwy


The Israelis have form.
 
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