High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Just two points, PrairieFella:

First, you are quite right that Quebec-Windsor corridor makes sense. However, I am pretty sure a Calgary-Edmonton one would also make sense. Probably the only other part of Canada where it does,

Second, I am not sure that the SNCF is the best partner possible. Nothing wrong with their knowledge of HSR's, but I would trust the Japanese HSR company more in view of their much more extensive experience with snow and sleet than the French.

 

[PrairieFella]

Just two points, PrairieFella:

First, you are quite right that Quebec-Windsor corridor makes sense. However, I am pretty sure a Calgary-Edmonton one would also make sense. Probably the only other part of Canada where it does,

Second, I am not sure that the SNCF is the best partner possible. Nothing wrong with their knowledge of HSR's, but I would trust the Japanese HSR company more in view of their much more extensive experience with snow and sleet than the French.

That's a reasonable discussion that we can have and respect why you say that, I still personally believe SNCF is the better choice due to their experience with switching between HSR and normal rail, which will be required in Canada. The Japanese cannot do this since their standard and HSR rail are different gauges.

I suppose overall I'm kinda disappointed by the attitudes toward a nation building project in this thread.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That's a reasonable discussion that we can have and respect why you say that, I still personally believe SNCF is the better choice due to their experience with switching between HSR and normal rail, which will be required in Canada. The Japanese cannot do this since their standard and HSR rail are different gauges.

I suppose overall I'm kinda disappointed by the attitudes toward a nation building project in this thread.

My guess is that if Trudeau wasn't attached to it the attitudes would change somewhat...

Philip Cross: Justin Trudeau’s failed vision for Canada​

The Liberal leader leaves office with a vague legacy and little impact either domestically or abroad

Few of Trudeau’s policies had the significant benefits promised for them. Deficit spending failed to boost incomes. The federal carbon tax did not reduce emissions: oil and gas production reached record highs. National unity was weakened by repeated federal intrusions into provincial jurisdiction. Canada’s long-standing embrace of immigration weakened when a surge in new arrivals after 2020 overwhelmed health care and housing. Fatally, Trudeau’s tenure was marked by lack of a strategic vision and indifference to efficient implementation.

Philip Cross: Justin Trudeau’s failed vision for Canada

Justin Trudeau leaves office with a vague legacy and little impact either domestically or abroad, write Philip Cross. Read more

financialpost.com

 

[ytz]

Man. Quick way to lose an audience.

What's the appropriate response to some bullshit that wanting better infrastructure is not Canadian?

 

[OldSolduer]

My guess is that if Trudeau wasn't attached to it the attitudes would change somewhat...

Philip Cross: Justin Trudeau’s failed vision for Canada​

The Liberal leader leaves office with a vague legacy and little impact either domestically or abroad

Few of Trudeau’s policies had the significant benefits promised for them. Deficit spending failed to boost incomes. The federal carbon tax did not reduce emissions: oil and gas production reached record highs. National unity was weakened by repeated federal intrusions into provincial jurisdiction. Canada’s long-standing embrace of immigration weakened when a surge in new arrivals after 2020 overwhelmed health care and housing. Fatally, Trudeau’s tenure was marked by lack of a strategic vision and indifference to efficient implementation.

Philip Cross: Justin Trudeau’s failed vision for Canada

Justin Trudeau leaves office with a vague legacy and little impact either domestically or abroad, write Philip Cross. Read more

financialpost.com

This is why I have my doubts about the whole thing:

This government is a massive failure and cannot be trusted with a project such as this. It is an Ethical failure, fiscally irresponsible and divisive.

ONCE we get a fiscally responsible, ethical government I could be persuaded to support this. Until the LPC is gone (or at least this iteration of it) I cannot see how it succeeds without a massive cost overrun and the taxpayers (which is us) being raped for more money.

 

[ytz]

That's pretty insulting. If you want to have a conversation like an adult behave like one.

Don't be an ass. You have made some valid points that unfortunately are lost when you lower yourself to this standard.

As asked above. Please let me know what the appropriate response is to the argument that not having fast trains is part of Canadian identity.

Spout crazy old man bullshit. And then get upset when called a crazy old man? I'm wondering how much of a snowflake some of you were when in actual uniform?

 

[OldSolduer]

As asked above. Please let me know what the appropriate response is to the argument that not having fast trains is part of Canadian identity.

Spout crazy old man bullshit. And then get upset when called a crazy old man? I'm wondering how much of a snowflake some of you were when in actual uniform?

Grow up. You're getting worse. you do know that you can IGNORE rude comments.

WTF do you know about any of us?? Your posts generally were quite reasoned, then you started name calling. SO go back to Mommy's basement and post your drivel somewhere else. You are now on IGNORE.

 

[PrairieFella]

As asked above. Please let me know what the appropriate response is to the argument that not having fast trains is part of Canadian identity.

Spout crazy old man bullshit. And then get upset when called a crazy old man? I'm wondering how much of a snowflake some of you were when in actual uniform?

Look man, I get you're passionate about this and I agree with the spirit of your argument but you're crossing a line going after people, especially OldSolduer. He has sacrificed more for this country than most, both himself and his family. Please show respect that is due.

 

[quadrapiper]

Might be something to be said for leaning on the two big lines to make space, one way or another, for passenger rail on their corridors, whether that means a CPKC/CN passenger system, double- or triple-tracking to provide capacity for Via, letting Via or whoever build on CPKC/CN rights of way, or whatever. As far as I'm aware, they're doing reasonably well financially. Let them claim a tax credit, perhaps, but being a duopoly should come with some expectation of public benefit.

I'm not at all anti-car: I'm anti-"car as a taxpayer priority, especially for routine travel." Where do we find the money to fund local, regional, and national rail? By scaling all support for automotive travel to "safe and occasional." No more new lanes. No more $80 million interchanges. Fix the potholes and keep the bridges in good nick, and otherwise freeze it.

Meanwhile, start from an aspirational principle that every Canadian should be a fifteen minute walk from reliable transit (feel free to play with the numbers: half hour, whatever). That might be a twice-daily creeping bus out in the sticks, connecting to a one-trip-each-way milk run train that's half parcel service, connecting eventually to a HFR service, and from there to light rail or bus in the city they're trying to get to, but cut out this patchwork government, private, PPP, government contracted private operator, try to catch a lift from a friend, get stiffed by a taxi company, and so on and so on process that trying to travel out of a small town is right now.

Oh, and flying is for special occasions, emergencies, and places that absolutely nothing else can reach.

 

[ytz]

Rome to Venice is about 550 km and only has a few million people (roughly 4ish million) in the corridor yet the Trenitalia HSR line is wildly successful, frequent, cheap and crosses extremely adverse terrain.

This is an understatement. They were so successful they basically killed Alitalia. Mostly because Milan-Rome has the same dynamic in Italy as Toronto-Montreal.

By the way, their trains are next level. They were designed by Pininfarina, the design shop that works with Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, etc. So they have crazy features like conference rooms in their business carriages.

 

[ytz]

Look man, I get you're passionate about this and I agree with the spirit of your argument but you're crossing a line going after people, especially OldSolduer. He has sacrificed more for this country than most, both himself and his family. Please show respect that is due.

Respect should be a 2 way street. I have been nothing but respectful in this thread until somebody suggested I was being uncanadian. So I'm not going to apologize for returning in kind.

Being a veteran is not an excuse to be an asshole.

 

[mariomike]

Toronto, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montréal, Laval, Trois-Rivières, and Quebec City.

Interesting discussion regarding the cost.

As far as driving that route is concerned, Highway 401 in Toronto is ( apparently ) North America's busiest highway.

Doug promises to build a tunnel under the 401 if re-elected: "We're going to get that tunnel built."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-hwy-401-tunnel-campaign-promise-1.7453508

There is 407 highway.

Doug also promises "Let's build the damn highway," when asked about Highway 413.

Here's everything Doug Ford's controversial Highway 413 will destroy

Ontario's provincial election is just days away and, if reelected, one of the PC Party's main promises is to build the highly controversial Highway 4…

www.blogto.com

The Gardiner Expressway and DVP will not be tolled. There will be no congestion pricing in downtown TO. And the bike lanes are coming out.

Environmental impact of cars vs trains might be worth considering.

Also parking.

Policing and emergency services and trauma centers when comparing automobile and pedestrian safety and trains may also be considered.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

As asked above. Please let me know what the appropriate response is to the argument that not having fast trains is part of Canadian identity.

Spout crazy old man bullshit. And then get upset when called a crazy old man? I'm wondering how much of a snowflake some of you were when in actual uniform?

I asked politely the first time, now it's time for you to respectfully take a time out from this thread.

Army.ca Directing Staff

 

[ytz]

Second, I am not sure that the SNCF is the best partner possible. Nothing wrong with their knowledge of HSR's, but I would trust the Japanese HSR company more in view of their much more extensive experience with snow and sleet than the French.

The French have actually been more successful than the Japanese at exporting their HSR tech. I have no idea why. But even here they sniffed around early on, but never got to the RFP stage. It's was the French, German and Spanish that reached RFP.

 

[Brad Sallows]

How can the poorer Italians build such a project? Our national project never ends and this can improve the lives, at least marginally for almost half of Canada. Its a slam dunk. Unfortunately though, the fuck you, I got mine attitude is reigning in this thread.

Spending on duplication of infrastructure given the state of health care funding in the country is arguably also a "fuck you" posture.

I can always find someone who benefits from the expenditure of a public dollar; I can also measure those benefits and rank them. "Fuck you" has nothing to do with it. HSR is for people who are already well-off and works about the same in that respectd as subsidies for EVs and home energy improvements. All useful; all characterized by money flowing to people who don't need it.

 

[PrairieFella]

What makes you think HSR will only be for rich people? It's not like that anywhere in Europe.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

We're not Europe.......and we have no money right now.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Might be something to be said for leaning on the two big lines to make space, one way or another, for passenger rail on their corridors, whether that means a CPKC/CN passenger system, double- or triple-tracking to provide capacity for Via, letting Via or whoever build on CPKC/CN rights of way, or whatever. As far as I'm aware, they're doing reasonably well financially. Let them claim a tax credit, perhaps, but being a duopoly should come with some expectation of public benefit.

I can get behind any project that doesn't interfere with rail freight or cost anyone except the company operating the passenger service more. Give them a right-of-way and see what they do.

The public already benefits from the relatively low-emission transportation of massive quantities of goods.

As far as I'm aware, plenty of people and companies are all doing reasonably well financially. Let's tithe all of them, including you.

 

[PrairieFella]

We're not Europe....

Reductio ad absurdium.

You're the one making the claim that somehow HSR will play out differently here despite similar conditions compared to other similar regions on the planet. Your exceptional claim requires some exceptional evidence as to why you think it'll be different here than it would be in Spain, Italy, Germany or France where HSR works in corridors with less population density.

 

[Good2Golf]

What makes you think HSR will only be for rich people? It's not like that anywhere in Europe.

We haven’t seen CANHSR’s prices yet, but regular speed rail in Canada is notably more expensive than reg speed in European countries. I just came back from some travel in Europe and just checked VIA for equivalent distant tickets — $105CAD vs €19,60 so 3-4x more. I suspect CANHSR would be proportionately more expensive than existing HSR.