Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Halifax Tar]

*Hezbollah

Thank you. Its so hard to keep up with all these Islamic Terrorist organizations and their names...

 

[Cloud Cover]

Thank you. Its so hard to keep up with all these Islamic Terrorist organizations and their names...

Curious if any pagers exploded on any campuses or street blockades in Canada today.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Curious if any pagers exploded on any campuses or street blockades in Canada today.

I feel like that would have made the news...

I had no idea pagers were still so prevalent, beyond the Sackville, Civic driving weed dealers.

 

[brihard]

If Hamas, Hezbollah, or any group or person exploded electronic devices in Israel and killed children, it would be described by the entire Western media class as a horrific act of wanton evil sadistic terrorism. Israel does it and it's seen as an epic based move to be celebrated. There is no way that what Israel just pulled in Lebanon is not a war crime. It is 100% a war crime. It is an act of terror and attempting to justify it by saying the target was Hezbollah when they killed children, medics, doctors, civilians is not going to work. Horrific.

...

That’s by no means a sure thing, and not even necessarily likely. We here are not equipped with the information to assess that.

What jumps at me is that this was clearly intelligence driven. Pagers are antiquated technology, it’s an anomaly that they were being used at all. If reports that Hezbollah has ordered it’s people to reduce tech are true, and if Israel had actionable intelligence of a pager procurement by and for Hezbollah, it’s absolutely plausible that a claim could be made that this was targeted with sufficient precision at Hezbollah personnel, that those carrying these pagers were largely valid military targets, and that the identification of these pagers as specifically a Hezbollah C2 tool made the strike precise enough.

Zero civilian casualties is an aspirational goal but it’s not a legal standard. Necessity, proportionality, discrimination.

It’s likely that a lot of working professionals in Lebanon are ‘dual hatted’, filling both a civilian role and working for Hezbollah on the side in direct military, or political or logistical roles.

While it’s right to be critical about and to question the precision and discrimination of this means of attack, that critical eye also needs to be in good faith. Israel may have successfully stricken a wide array of, in some cases, reasonably senior Hezbollah leaders, and a bunch of (validly targeted) lower ranked members/enablers. Some civilian collateral casualties, while awful, can be generally expected and justified if they weren’t disproportionate.

I don’t have the answers to call this one conclusively, but you don’t either.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If Hamas, Hezbollah, or any group or person exploded electronic devices in Israel and killed children, it would be described by the entire Western media class as a horrific act of wanton evil sadistic terrorism. Israel does it and it's seen as an epic based move to be celebrated. There is no way that what Israel just pulled in Lebanon is not a war crime. It is 100% a war crime. It is an act of terror and attempting to justify it by saying the target was Hezbollah when they killed children, medics, doctors, civilians is not going to work. Horrific.

...

So you are saying that Hezbollah issued pagers (pagers issued for purpose of coordinating/carrying out terror attacks) were found to have been in the possession of said children, medics, doctors, civilians when they exploded (i personally have not seen either video or news reports of anything other than injured fighting age males, but I would be willing to accept other evidence).

Does that maybe suggest some culpability on the part of the pager carrier?

I am not sure that I see the war crime here. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

 

[RangerRay]

They FAFO’d.

 

[OldSolduer]

OK so 2700 pagers. How big are they? How much explosives can you stick in one?

It would depend on where the terrorists carried them on their person that would determine the injuries. I have no idea where one carries a pager - on your belt? Shirt pocket? Backpack?

 

[GR66]

If Hamas, Hezbollah, or any group or person exploded electronic devices in Israel and killed children, IDF troops it would be described by the entire Western Arab media class as a horrific act of wanton evil sadistic terrorism glorious strike against the evil Satan Israel. Israel does it and it's seen as an epic based move to be celebrated. There is no way that what Israel just pulled in Lebanon is not a war crime valid retaliation against a foreign military regularly launching rockets against civilian targets in Israel. It is 100% a war crime. It is an act of terror and attempting to justify it by saying the target was Hezbollah when they killed children, medics, doctors, civilians is not going to work. Horrific.

...

Every report I've seen describes these pagers as having been used by Hezbollah. Even Al Jazeera is reporting it as such:

• At least nine people have been killed, including an eight-year-old girl, and 2,750 have been wounded in simultaneous explosions of handheld pagers used by Hezbollah members across Lebanon and Syria.
• The communication devices had apparently been acquired after the Lebanese group’s leader ordered members in February to stop using mobile phones, warning they could be tracked by Israeli intelligence.

Unlike the Hezbollah missiles fired intentionally at Israeli civilian targets this was an attack specifically targeting members of the combatant group. Were there civilians killed/injured as collateral damage in this attack? I'm sure there were. However, comparing targeted attacks specifically against members of the enemy military using small explosives which (as seen in some of the videos of the devices exploding) had a quite limited blast radius to large unguided rockets indiscriminately fired into civilian neighbourhoods is misinformed at best.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I feel like that would have made the news...

I had no idea pagers were still so prevalent, beyond the Sackville, Civic driving weed dealers.

Also, any UNRWA or other UN workers mysteriously no longer have the balls to go to work?

 

[medicineman]

OK so 2700 pagers. How big are they? How much explosives can you stick in one?

It would depend on where the terrorists carried them on their person that would determine the injuries. I have no idea where one carries a pager - on your belt? Shirt pocket? Backpack?

Depended on how many I had at a time and where I was...I've worn them on neck lanyards, clipped them inside of my front pants pocket, worn them on my waist band. Have had more than one before - would wear them on opposite sides to tell which was which going off...sometimes in nutsack range, sometimes butt cheek range. Regardless - they'd cause damage if Mossad or Shin Bet took a dislike to me...

 

[armyvern]

*Hezbollah

*Hezballess

 

[Halifax Tar]

Just a reminder @Lumber volunteered a few pages back to be the devils advocate.