Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Brad Sallows]

Surely you’re not trying to suggest your average Gazan can safely criticize their government the way you or I can?

You or I can say practically anything about the performance of our government or suitability of those constituting it, as long as we don’t cross the threshold of threats. You live in Gaza and criticize Hamas? Odds are you’re dead, or at least abused rather awfully. What tangible actions do you suggest the average Gazan can take individually that would allow them to not be held morally culpable for what Hamas does by force of arms?

Vote against Hamas, assuming there's a less-bad alternative.

Not take to the streets cheering when Hamas commits outrages.

There are limits, but it would be absurd to propose there is nothing that can be done. Beyond that, there's violent revolution.

 

[brihard]

Vote against Hamas, assuming there's a less-bad alternative.

Not take to the streets cheering when Hamas commits outrages.

There are limits, but it would be absurd to propose there is nothing that can be done. Beyond that, there's violent revolution.

I already said vote against Hamas, or abstain from fear. I don’t know if a resident of Haza can trust the anonymity of their ballot.

Not celebrating atrocity is of course fair, and I think implicit in what I’ve been saying.

I believe that you understand there can be innocent victims in Gaza. I believe, from his words, that Quieky does not. That’s why I’m more interested in pressing him than you. I will say though that it’s very easy for us, supremely safe as we are in our domestic politics, to talk about how strangers in a strange land should resist their government when that government would murder them without hesitation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I will say though that it’s very easy for us, supremely safe as we are in our domestic politics, to talk about how strangers in a strange land should resist their government when that government would murder them without hesitation.

Yes. But I'd find it hard to take up the position of going along with my tyrannical countrymen killing foreigners, as an outlet for my frustrations, instead of me killing my tyrannical countrymen.

 

[dimsum]

Yes. But I'd find it hard to take up the position of going along with my tyrannical countrymen killing foreigners, as an outlet for my frustrations, instead of me killing my tyrannical countrymen.

What news do Gazans get?

This is an honest question, which ties into the US (and other) political systems.

We have seen that there are echo chambers everywhere. If Gazans don’t get “the other side” and only get fed Hamas propaganda, then why wouldn’t they support them?

Also, as @brihard said, what are the consequences of not supporting Hamas in Gaza? Maybe why we’re not hearing about the dissenters is bc they don’t live too long once Hamas, et al, find them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

All of this could have been avoided if Hamas Leadership chose a different path. It can also end tomorrow if Hamas would surrender and return who they have for Hostages.

Look, civilians are going to get up caught in war and many many will be killed. It should be part of the decision making process for when we make war. It falls to the aggressor, Hamas, to make that call. And they chose their path. The death and misery of their people is on their hands.

What happened on Oct 7 wasn't a simple act of violence, it was an evil act of death, torture, rape and kidnapping. And it had to be met head on.

I only wish I could do more to support Israel.

 

[OldSolduer]

Also, as @brihard said, what are the consequences of not supporting Hamas in Gaza? Maybe why we’re not hearing about the dissenters is bc they don’t live too long once Hamas, et al, find them.

This is a feature of dictatorships everywhere - whether they are tossed in a gulag or killed. Dissent - even slight dissent - is not tolerated and is usually dealt with in a swift and "persuasive" manner.

"Comrade we hear you have been spreading Western lies amongst the proletariat. We must go for a little....hike, Da?"

 

[Eaglelord17]

This is a feature of dictatorships everywhere - whether they are tossed in a gulag or killed. Dissent - even slight dissent - is not tolerated and is usually dealt with in a swift and "persuasive" manner.

"Comrade we hear you have been spreading Western lies amongst the proletariat. We must go for a little....hike, Da?"

It also isn't just you paying the price, often times dictatorships will punish your families as well, which makes it that much harder to stand up to them.

 

[OldSolduer]

It also isn't just you paying the price, often times dictatorships will punish your families as well, which makes it that much harder to stand up to them.

Oh yes that is a favorite play of the dictator - and it does not matter if its Left or Right - they all read the same playbook, with local adaptations.

AND secret "police". They all love "Secret Police". And Gulags.