Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[KevinB]

First off, David Collier is a zionist shill.

Second, that post doesn't purporte to provide the complete list of casualties from the strike, but just those they considered terrorists. And I say "they consider" because the zonists consider any pubescent Palestinian male that isn't on their knees with their shirt off and their hands up to be Hamas terrorist. So, I take this list with a giant grain of salt.

That list was Hamas’s list. Note it’s in Arabic not Hebrew. It appears to have 4 more names than the IDF targeting list.

Which to me, shows some fairly solid evidence of an attempt to limit civilian casualties on behalf of the Israelis. Something that isn’t on the Hamas agenda at all.



So by all means keep digging, that’s a fantastic hole you have built.

 

[Lumber]

That list was Hamas’s list. Note it’s in Arabic not Hebrew. It appears to have 4 more names than the IDF targeting list.

Which to me, shows some fairly solid evidence of an attempt to limit civilian casualties on behalf of the Israelis. Something that isn’t on the Hamas agenda at all.



So by all means keep digging, that’s a fantastic hole you have built.

Look, if you're expecting me to provide you with an exact list of all those killed in this particular strike, you're going to be disappointed. It's simply not possible. But more importantly, it's simply not necessary.

I don't deny that the "Gaza Health Authority" has probably embellished the numbers. I also don't deny that the list of "terrorists" killed in the strike is probably at least somewhat accurate (sources say that some of those claimed to have been killed in that strike were actually killed days earlier). However, you can't tell me that the IDF dropped a couple JDAMs in the highly compacted neighbourhoods of Gaza City during morning prayers and that there wasnt a whole ton of additional innocent casualties.

 

[Lumber]

What you call cowardly we in the infantry, and armor, artillery and engineers call good tactics. Civilian casualties are always a concern and all measures should be taken to avoid them. BUT as a parent of a fallen soldier if he had fallen because our side DID NOT employ proper tactics I would be a tad upset.
My rant endeth.

I don't disagree with the overall premise of what you are saying. However, the difference between a good tactic and an unacceptable tactic can simply be how big of a stick you choose to use to achieve your aim. In the case of the IDF, they are cowards because they go strait to choosing a hammer without even discussing the appropriate sized stick.

 

[KevinB]

Look, if you're expecting me to provide you with an exact list of all those killed in this particular strike, you're going to be disappointed. It's simply not possible. But more importantly, it's simply not necessary.

I don't deny that the "Gaza Health Authority" has probably embellished the numbers. I also don't deny that the list of "terrorists" killed in the strike is probably at least somewhat accurate (sources say that some of those claimed to have been killed in that strike were actually killed days earlier).

Fair

However, you can't tell me that the IDF dropped a couple JDAMs in the highly compacted neighbourhoods of Gaza City during morning prayers and that there wasn’t a whole ton of additional innocent casualties.

Well most innocent folks generally tend to try to get out of dodge when fighting does on.

I’m already on record here suggesting that the Israeli Air Force probably doesn’t need to use 2000lb bombs when 500lb bombs will do. There is a huge difference between the them, but the issue is that most reporters don’t seem to understand JDAM kits go onto 500, 1000 and 2000lb bombs and just say JDAM.

 

[KevinB]

I don't disagree with the overall premise of what you are saying. However, the difference between a good tactic and an unacceptable tactic can simply be how big of a stick you choose to use to achieve your aim. In the case of the IDF, they are cowards because they go strait to choosing a hammer without even discussing the appropriate sized stick.

Actually early on the IDF was conducting raids — the issues are that unless one goes in full low vis that the ‘innocent’ people of Gaza tend to tip off Hamas, which has resulted in the HVT’s escape and IDF soldiers being ambushed.

So for now and as a result for TST the IDF just used the IAF to drop a present.

That isn’t cowardly that’s smart efficient soldiering. As long as it’s reasonable ordnance that is being dropped.

I’m all for targeted killings, and as minimal damage to noncombatants as possible.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Actually early on the IDF was conducting raids — the issues are that unless one goes in full low vis that the ‘innocent’ people of Gaza tend to tip off Hamas, which has resulted in the HVT’s escape and IDF soldiers being ambushed.

So for now and as a result for TST the IDF just used the IAF to drop a present.

That isn’t cowardly that’s smart efficient soldiering. As long as it’s reasonable ordnance that is being dropped.

I’m all for targeted killings, and as minimal damage to noncombatants as possible.

Night raids can beef up your intelligence picture with prisoners though. I assume there's a certain amount of that going on too, of course.

 

[OldSolduer]

I don't disagree with the overall premise of what you are saying. However, the difference between a good tactic and an unacceptable tactic can simply be how big of a stick you choose to use to achieve your aim. In the case of the IDF, they are cowards because they go strait to choosing a hammer without even discussing the appropriate sized stick.

Before you send troops to attack a well defended position, you have to assess what casualties you could suffer and it that is acceptable. Maybe the IDF considered this a position which was too well defended to attack with troops. Remember the conventional wisdom is a 3-1 ratio of attackers to defenders when attacking a defended position.
The JNA and many other armies go by the tactic "never send a soldier when you can send an artillery round".

Alot of people like to say "surgical strike" when a 500 pound bomb is dropped and kills the bad guys, except there is nothing surgical about it.

 

[brihard]

Before you send troops to attack a well defended position, you have to assess what casualties you could suffer and it that is acceptable. Maybe the IDF considered this a position which was too well defended to attack with troops. Remember the conventional wisdom is a 3-1 ratio of attackers to defenders when attacking a defended position.
The JNA and many other armies go by the tactic "never send a soldier when you can send an artillery round"

And they also involves getting to and from the objective in the first place. Not an easy endeavour. Not difficult to imagine a Black Hawk Down scenario.