Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[KevinB]

Very political response, so without being a pendant, cite one.

There are a slew of other samples of Pogroms in 1948. Both Jewish and Arab victims.

 

[YZT580]

There are a slew of other samples of Pogroms in 1948. Both Jewish and Arab victims.

Even Wilki has references. It seems that events prior to the UN mandate were primarily Arab instigated with Jewish retaliation. This seems to have increased significantly after the mandate until the Jewish (irgun is it) started in quite viciously and they more than matched the Arabs for brutality. There don't appear to be any angels but just as in October it would seem that the Arabs initiated it and weren't prepared for the blowback

 

[Kirkhill]

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Samuel 17 - New International Version

David and Goliath - Now the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Sokoh in Judah. They pitched camp at Ephes Dammim, between Sokoh and Azekah. Saul and the Israelites assembled and camped in the Valley of Elah and drew up their battle line to meet the Philistines. The...

www.biblegateway.com

The researchers conclude that European pigs arrived in Israel at some point and overtook the local pig population.

To find out when, the researchers collected and analyzed pig bones from archaeological sites across Israel -- ranging from the Neolithic period to medieval times, 9500 BCE to 1200 CE -- the most comprehensive study of ancient DNA carried out in Israel in terms of both number of samples and time span.

The results showed that pigs from the Bronze Age and the beginning of the Iron Age display the local Near Eastern genetic signature, while a European genetic signature appears early in the Iron Age, around 900 BCE, and has been dominant ever since.

Domestic European pig breeds may have been introduced by groups of "Sea Peoples" -- including the Philistines, mentioned in the Bible -- who migrated to the coast of the Levant starting in the 12th century BCE and settled in places like Gaza, Ashkelon, and Ashdod.

Genetic study demonstrates Israel's wild boars originated in Europe

Scientists had no reason to suspect Israeli wild boars were any different than their brothers and sisters roaming the Middle East. Now, a researcher demonstrates that, unlike the Near Eastern wild boars in surrounding countries, Israel's wild boars originated in Europe, brought to Israel...

www.sciencedaily.com

Now if it were the Canaanites instead of the Philistines then I might take a different view....

 

[Eaglelord17]

So those chanting 'To the River and the Sea' here in Canada- is that considered an argument for advocating genocide under your definition?

Depends, are they saying they wish for freedom, or are they saying exterminate the Jews? Some who chant it are 100% advocating genocide, but context matters. There are some who chant that who genuinely want a free Palestine.

There is a reason no one is being charged for saying that, it isn’t clear enough on its own.

Personally I think a lot of people advocate for the genocide/removal of the Israelis. I just don’t believe that gives the Israelis carte blanche to do whatever they like. Equal treatment for both. Genocide is wrong no matter who is doing it. Ethnic cleansing is wrong no matter who is doing it.

 

[Quirky]

There are some who chant that who genuinely want a free Palestine.

What does that mean exactly? First you need to define the borders of a "Palestine".

I just don’t believe that gives the Israelis carte blanche to do whatever they like. Equal treatment for both

Once Israel eliminates every member of hamas, then you can call it even-steven for Oct7th. Everything else is collateral.

 

[Eaglelord17]

What does that mean exactly? First you need to define the borders of a "Palestine".



Once Israel eliminates every member of hamas, then you can call it even-steven for Oct7th. Everything else is collateral.

Yeah I don’t agree with killing civilians and calling them collateral. It would not have been acceptable for Canada to kill Quebecers to get the FLQ or the British to kill tons of Irish to get the IRA.

Killing terrorists doesn’t mean you get to kill everyone else in the way.

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendetta.

There is a reason most the West is calling for a ceasefire, it’s because too many innocents are being killed.

 

[QV]

The terrorist organization Hamas needs to be eliminated completely. Otherwise, there will just be another Oct 7th.

 

[Quirky]

There is a reason most the West is calling for a ceasefire, it’s because too many innocents are being killed.

No, it's because Hamas is losing.

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendetta.

70% of the people of gaza still support hamas and oct7th, not so many of them are "uninvolved".

 

[KevinB]

Yeah I don’t agree with killing civilians and calling them collateral. It would not have been acceptable for Canada to kill Quebecers to get the FLQ or the British to kill tons of Irish to get the IRA.

But a good start no?

Killing terrorists doesn’t mean you get to kill everyone else in the way.

Agreed.

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendetta.

Proportionality, so they need to temper their wrath with selective targeting and avoid needless civilian casualties.

There is a reason most the West is calling for a ceasefire, it’s because too many innocents are being killed.

The West is quietly asking, a lot stronger words could be used as well as some actions taken to incentivize Israel, if Western Governments actually cared.

 

[Furniture]

Yeah I don’t agree with killing civilians and calling them collateral. It would not have been acceptable for Canada to kill Quebecers to get the FLQ or the British to kill tons of Irish to get the IRA.

Killing terrorists doesn’t mean you get to kill everyone else in the way.

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendetta.

There is a reason most the West is calling for a ceasefire, it’s because too many innocents are being killed.

A better comparison is Germany or Japan in WWII.

The Allies killed many civilians during the war, but it was part of the military effort to destroy the German and Japanese ability to fight. We didn't stop at the borders of Germany because they had to be crushed. The same is now happening in Gaza, because Hamas needs to be crushed.

What saved many Germans and Japanese people is their leaders eventually realized that surrender was better for their people. Hamas is a genocidal death cult, so they don't care about the people of Gaza, meaning they will try to fight to the last civilian shield they can find.

Israel can't allow any of Hamas to survive, so they are forced to go as far as necessary to destroy Hamas.

 

[YZT580]

Yeah I don’t agree with killing civilians and calling them collateral. It would not have been acceptable for Canada to kill Quebecers to get the FLQ or the British to kill tons of Irish to get the IRA.

Killing terrorists doesn’t mean you get to kill everyone else in the way.

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendetta.

There is a reason most the West is calling for a ceasefire, it’s because too many innocents are being killed.

no the big reason is to placate their voters. There is no other reason I can think of for the outright denial of many of the atrocities committed Oct 7 that we have heard or our blind acceptance of the statements by the Palestinians regarding death tolls. Or how about the discoveries (verified) of arms, comm. equipment and tunnels within hospital premises or the participation by the UNWRA in the attacks by Hamas.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Yeah I don’t agree with killing civilians and calling them collateral. It would not have been acceptable for Canada to kill Quebecers to get the FLQ or the British to kill tons of Irish to get the IRA.

Killing terrorists doesn’t mean you get to kill everyone else in the way.

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendetta.

There is a reason most the West is calling for a ceasefire, it’s because too many innocents are being killed.

If killing terrorists means killing their enablers, supporters, financiers, agents, propagandists, recruiters, trainees, cooks, suppliers, technicians, cheer leaders, helpers, spies, whatever, then that’s a price I’m willing for such people to pay.

 

[KevinB]

I set this as a gift article so should not be paywalled.

Israeli Hostage Says She Was Sexually Assaulted and Tortured in Gaza

Amit Soussana is the first former hostage to publicly say she was sexually abused in captivity. A U.N. report has said it found “clear and convincing information” that some hostages suffered “conflict-related sexual violence.”

www.nytimes.com

 

[KevinB]

Worth reading. While Stanford isn’t everywhere - it does give a good insight as a microcosm of the issues.

The War at Stanford — The Atlantic

Ideas I didn’t know that college would be a factory of unreason. March 26, 2024 O Follow The Atlantic ne of the section leaders for my computer-science class, Hamza El Boudali, believes that President Joe Biden should be killed. “I’m not calling for a civilian to do it, but I think a military...

apple.news

 

[Jarnhamar]

I get the Israelis are mad. I get they have legitimate reasons to be mad. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to kill uninvolved civilians in some sort of unhinged vendeta.

Some of those uninvolved civilians were video taped entering into Gaza right behind Hamas, abusing prisoners and dead bodies, and cheering on the murder of jews.

Support for Hamas also increased after October 7th. Seems to border on FAFO.

 

[OldSolduer]

If killing terrorists means killing their enablers, supporters, financiers, agents, propagandists, recruiters, trainees, cooks, suppliers, technicians, cheer leaders, helpers, spies, whatever, then that’s a price I’m willing for such people to pay.

If you are one of the above you are by definition a terrorist supporter at the very least. I am guessing they use children to hide behind, and as couriers, ammo bearers etc, so they are in effect training the next generation of Hamas.
We see this tactic over and over and yet we expect them to change....leopards don't change their spots.

 

[Ignatius]

I can only imagine all the crimes those barbaric Hamas thugs have committed and are still committing to those Hostages in captivity. You can bet they are no angels that's for sure and are probably committing sexual violence, sexual assault on a grand scale. I feel so bad for those hostages to have to live through eternal hell every day. Hamas needs to be 100% eliminated.

 

[TacticalTea]

No, it's because Hamas is losing.



70% of the people of gaza still support hamas and oct7th, not so many of them are "uninvolved".

For real. People were calling for a ceasefire before Israel had even commenced its counterattack.

 

[Quirky]

For real. People were calling for a ceasefire before Israel had even commenced its counterattack.

If this was 1940-1950, Gaza and everyone living there would be destroyed by now.

 

[brihard]

If this was 1940-1950, Gaza and everyone living there would be destroyed by now.

Basing that on what? In Dresden, for instance, about 25k of the half million residents were killed. In Tokyo, about 100k of several million residents were killed.

The physical destruction in Gaza has certain been VERY widespread, and in some areas comprehensive. The death toll is much lower than the WW2 firebombings, but those were mass raids explicitly designed to cause firestorms.

Your claim that Gaza and its population would have been ‘destroyed by now’ in WW2 isn’t supported by the casualty data for that timeframe, nor the realistic effects of weapons in a built up area that’s largely concrete and stone.