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Georgia and the Russian invasions/annexations/Lebensraum (2008 & 2015)

This subtle policy of "repopulating" what were former "Satellite States" with retired military personnel is probably what is contributing to some of these problems in those States. 
 
geo said:
New article in the paper this morning.....
It points out that the Russian Black sea fleet's home port of Sebastopol is in the Ukraine AND the lease comes up sometime in the next 20 years.  Considering the number of retired russian sailors living in Sebastopol, any wager the Ukranian gov't is gonna be thinking about the Russian gov't reaction if the lease isn't renewed....

Ahh... Realpolitik & gunboat diplomacy.... the good old days of the Cold war all over again
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2017 if I recall.
 
CougarDaddy said:
This is hilarious... apparently Russia's withdrawal is complete! Except for the 2500 "peacekeeper" troops inside Georgia, the attack helicopters, APC's, etc, etc that Russia says will remain in Georgia for the foreseeable future to man checkpoints and buffer zones throughout Georgia (both provinces and Georgia proper).
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No funnier than NATO "peacekeepers" in Kosovo?  (Though, the difference of course is that KFOR was mandated by the UN).  But to suggest that Russians acting as peackeepers after they were the ones who went in after Georgia struck at South Ossetia is different from NATO going into Kosovo is a difference of degrees of the same thing, IMHO.
 
Nuking Poland.. a bit silly that - which way are the prevailing winds? Where do the pipelines run... where do your connections to your primary trade partner pass-through.... The rather hot summer of 2008 has clearly affected some brains..  As for the Ukraine. frankly I can see dismemberment occuring - the atitudes of eastern Ukraine are quite different to western Ukraine, culturally, politically, religiously, ethnographically etc... A balancing act for sure - a harder one than for Canada...
 
JackD said:
Nuking Poland.. a bit silly that - which way are the prevailing winds? Where do the pipelines run... where do your connections to your primary trade partner pass-through.... The rather hot summer of 2008 has clearly affected some brains..  As for the Ukraine. frankly I can see dismemberment occuring - the atitudes of eastern Ukraine are quite different to western Ukraine, culturally, politically, religiously, ethnographically etc... A balancing act for sure - a harder one than for Canada...
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Jack;

What are the prevailing feelings in Poland, and how are people reacting the the current Russian sabre ratling? I think that the perception of people where you are, would provide an interesting point of view here.

Chimo
 
Mortarman,

My comments were not meant to slight any other nations' peacekeepers in KFOR, IFOR and SFOR and so forth- only the Russians for their "peacekeepers". And here is another update.

080823-poti-hmed-5a.h2.jpg


GORI, Georgia - A top Russian general on Saturday said his country's forces will continue to patrol a key Georgian Black Sea port even though the city lies outside the "security zones" where Russia claims it has the right to station soldiers in Georgia.

The statement by deputy head of the general staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, reported by Russian news agencies, came a day after Russia said it had pulled back forces from Georgia in accordance with a EU-brokered cease-fire agreement.

Russia interprets the accord as allowing it to keep a substantial military presence in Georgia — a point hotly disputed by the United States, France and Britain.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26361173/
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tomahawk6 said:
http://www.military.com/news/article/us-trainers-georgian-troops-werent-ready.html?col=1186032325324

US Trainers: Georgian Troops Weren't Ready
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Looks like a funny attempt to save face  :) after pumping millions into Georgians army.

 
Take into consideration how long they have been supporting Georgias military...
It would take a long time to get ANY force up the standards of a premier "western" military.  Even at that, you never know what will happen until the bullets really start flying.
 
JackD said:
Nuking Poland.. a bit silly that - which way are the prevailing winds? Where do the pipelines run... where do your connections to your primary trade partner pass-through....
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I am surprised how many times Poland, instead of building good relationship with Russia, tried to ally with Western allies and how many times then it got  treasoned by these allies. It is just amazing.

However, It should be very clear that there is no free lunch (a part of mouse traps)

By placing missiles on its territory Poland takes a great deal of risk and responsibility and gets involved automatically in any potential conflict as a potential target.
It is just a normal planning. You place missiles at our borders, you get targeted.
The worst thing is that it is a risk, over which Poland has absolutely no control.

I just do not get this point.

 
Flanker said:
I am surprised how many times Poland, instead of building good relationship with Russia,
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Because Poland was treated so well by Russia in the past....we all know that.

::)
 
Exactly what I was going to say CDN Aviator.

If I were Poland, I'd take my chances with putting the defensive missiles in place.  If it goes well, it'll go really well.  If it goes bad...Well at least we'll all know how effective the missiles really were, on both sides.
 
Flanker said:
I am surprised how many times Poland, instead of building good relationship with Russia, tried to ally with Western allies and how many times then it got  treasoned by these allies. It is just amazing.

However, It should be very clear that there is no free lunch (a part of mouse traps)

By placing missiles on its territory Poland takes a great deal of risk and responsibility and gets involved automatically in any potential conflict as a potential target.
It is just a normal planning. You place missiles at our borders, you get targeted.
The worst thing is that it is a risk, over which Poland has absolutely no control.

I just do not get this point.
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???

You know what?  I just don't get your point.  I can only shake my head in disbelief in what I just read.  I know I'm not drinking or on drugs, other than one Ibuprofen 600, and that isn't enough to make me hallucinate over what I just read............
 
The Poles were pretty smart when negotiating this treaty by requiring a US military  guarantee of its security over and above NATO. If Russia attacks Poland US troops on Polish territory will require a US military response.
I would also go forward with a bare bones base in Poland where a US brigade can rotate in and out every 3-6 months for training.
 
George Wallace said:
to make me hallucinate over what I just read............
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What is that shocking?
How would US react if Russia places a bunch of "ABM" at Cuba?

 
If it was an ABM system I wouldnt be too worried.If it was an ICBM though then we have another problem entirely.
 
tomahawk6 said:
The Poles were pretty smart when negotiating
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Yeah they do that all the time and all the time they get abandoned and treasoned by their allies
 
Flanker said:
Yeah they do that all the time and all the time they get abandoned and treasoned by their allies
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:rofl:

Go read some more history books.....you need it if you think for one seconds that Russia would not hang Poland out to dry if it benefited Russia.

People forget so quickly......or are just freakin blind.
 
The US has yet to abandon any NATO member. Now if Obama gets in the White House I would put that deal on ice until a republican was president again. :)
 
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