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jeff001
Guest
I didn‘t know that this was adressed in 3RCHA.Thanks for bringing that to light. I can personally verify, and confirm, about the RHA inquiring as to why we don‘t wear the Garter Crest.
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Vet‘s Son when I joined the badge was metel and all in English then it changed to a smaller badge,then it changed again to include French (Genie)then it went to the first style of cloth badge all told I think this is the 4th or 5th version
The trouble with the cloth badge is that is does not stand up normal wear and tear.
You are correct about the similarity to the first C.M.E. badge but they were brass.
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Here is a question to ask, Does anyone know if there a place online to buy RA officers beret cap badges. The ones that the RCA kit shop sells are terribly over sized (I think a change of manufactures is the cause)
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Thanks Gunner, after a little fishing around and some exchanged e-mail I found the site to Larkhill, although I have not had a response to me e-mail yet...
J
jeff001
Guest
http://www.arbeia.demon.co.uk/srs/collect/badges/corps/desc_c.htm#
Check out this web site they offer both RA & RHA kit, a bunch of us just ordered some RHA, NCM hatbadges. There is a problem with CDN money orders for Pounds Sterling. They won‘t accept them because they can‘t cash them.
Check out this web site they offer both RA & RHA kit, a bunch of us just ordered some RHA, NCM hatbadges. There is a problem with CDN money orders for Pounds Sterling. They won‘t accept them because they can‘t cash them.
Gunner
Army.ca Veteran
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Thanks for the link Tech. I looked through the site but wasn‘t able to find any officer cloth cap badges for a beret. The website seems to cater to collectors of brass regimental hatbadges. As an aside, I found the prices to be quite good as they are similar to the brass hatbadges (pre and post 1954) I picked up almost 15 years ago as an NCM.
J
jeff001
Guest
By the looks of the recent posts, the main discussion of changing our hat badge and the colour of beret, is pretty much over.The only unfortunate thing that wasn‘t apparent was the amount of members still serving or have served in the RCHA.Considering that the RCHA(1905) is older than the Royal Regt(mid1930‘s), and the former Gunners of the Fort Henry Guard wore the Garter Crest on their hemets, it is just another case of lost tradition and a motion or affect for unification.Asking why the Queen never approved our hat badge in the first place, being our Captain General and the RHA‘s in Britain, may bring some answers to light(I looked finding Royal Dispatches isn‘t easy).Trying to create one big family has ended up costing tradition.I did note that the main resistance came from those who were never in a Regt.Perhaps by looking back at the traditions that have already fallen by the wayside(berets&lanyards),that might help us pass line to the next generation.With a side note to the idea,keep in mind the Motto of the RCHA,
HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE,(EVIL TO HE WHO THINKS ILL OF IT (maybe this is what the motto refers to).
The fight will be uphill,and will no doubt take a while, for good or bad at least the attempt will be made.It will have to go right through the system,through the director, through the Master Gunner St. James Park or Whitehall,then HRH.If the new Gunners coming to the Regt‘s hear and see this maybe they will choose for themselves to use it as a LTSDT.
HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE
HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE,(EVIL TO HE WHO THINKS ILL OF IT (maybe this is what the motto refers to).
The fight will be uphill,and will no doubt take a while, for good or bad at least the attempt will be made.It will have to go right through the system,through the director, through the Master Gunner St. James Park or Whitehall,then HRH.If the new Gunners coming to the Regt‘s hear and see this maybe they will choose for themselves to use it as a LTSDT.
HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE
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Tech, You mention lost tradition, but you must remember the traditions you talk about are from another era. My tradition is the arty hatbadge and I suspect when you retire and someone wishes to change somthing that you were proud of to something else you might get offended also. The beret and lanyard idea I like but the garter crest on the beret leaves me cold. And yes I spent most of my time in a regt.and not once did I hear of anyone discuss this matter. [probably too busy keeping the L-5‘s together] CHEERS
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Ah, Bruce we can dream... cause soon with we will all be wearing a cornflake and be apart of 2 Artillery Battalion... in the magical world where reserves and regs are equal.
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Sorry, muskrat.... it‘s ok, I know a bunch of Toons,er..MOs... er reserves, and they were really very nice. But seriously, the same people who want us to give up any regimental identity (in whatever form), believe that there is no different between the reg and reserves, they are not, which I‘m sure you can agree (based simply on experience). However, that topic is as old as the hills, and it is not even worth discussing. I only used it to highlight how far removed from reality decision makers are.
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This may surprise you, but in general, I agree.
I also know, from experience, that most Regular Force soldiers rarely see the best that the Militia has to offer.
They see the unemployed, the students, the people who can‘t/choose not to hold down a regular job. They see the people content to go from callout to callout, drawing unemployment in between. The best leaders in the Reserves are often leaders in their civvie jobs also - making it harder for them to attend courses, callouts, augmentations, etc. Certainly, there are exceptions - I like to think I was one. Not only did I meet the Regular Force standards, I held my own - as a detachment member, 2 I/C, and even a Number 1. Not only did I need to be up to snuff, I had to overcome the extra scrutiny, and even scorn - that had been earned by some of my predecessors.
There are few civilian trades where the part-time employees are as proficient as the fulltime. I bet you or some of your guys play hockey. Is it reasonable to expect that any of you would be as good as hockey players who do it "fulltime"?
Anyway, I agree with you in principle, but I feel the problem is often over-simplified.
I also know, from experience, that most Regular Force soldiers rarely see the best that the Militia has to offer.
They see the unemployed, the students, the people who can‘t/choose not to hold down a regular job. They see the people content to go from callout to callout, drawing unemployment in between. The best leaders in the Reserves are often leaders in their civvie jobs also - making it harder for them to attend courses, callouts, augmentations, etc. Certainly, there are exceptions - I like to think I was one. Not only did I meet the Regular Force standards, I held my own - as a detachment member, 2 I/C, and even a Number 1. Not only did I need to be up to snuff, I had to overcome the extra scrutiny, and even scorn - that had been earned by some of my predecessors.
There are few civilian trades where the part-time employees are as proficient as the fulltime. I bet you or some of your guys play hockey. Is it reasonable to expect that any of you would be as good as hockey players who do it "fulltime"?
Anyway, I agree with you in principle, but I feel the problem is often over-simplified.
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I was hoping the us vs them was not behind this thread, but alas it has raised its ugly head. It is a topic I find very hard to overlook. Once it's brought up, it's like a lump of **** on the carpet, hard to ignore. Tech, when you said this wasn't a case of snobbery; you didn't actually mean that. I have spent well over half my life in the Militia and serving the guns, and am as proud of The Regiment as anyone. I held my own as a Number 1 and for someone to tell me I am a lesser part deserves a kick in the ***. You are showing your arrogance which is not an enduring quality to those who have been plugging along all those years you were probably in diapers (I'm guessing, and I could be wrong.).
To answer to one of your previous posts, The Royal Regt is one big family (The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery) and I do belong to a Regiment. Your traditions are my traditions. You or I do not own a monopoly on them. The issue of the cypher maybe a valid issue, but the lanyard and beret had more to do with unification then anything else. For more on Arty traditions here is a link - RCA Standing Orders . By the way the oldest battery (and that is how we follow our lineage) in Canada will be celebrating their 150th Anniversaries in 2005.
You are free to bring your proposal up through the chain of command, pl let them know it is because you don't want to be mistaken as a reserve. But beware, your BSM, RSM, BC or CO might have been in the Militia, and **** proud of it.
The history of the RHA is the were a mounted troop, and in there modern version are mech and support the Armoured Divisions. The only claim to fame for the RCHA is that it comprises of Reg F Regts, so when you lose the M109s, do you go back to RCA? I think not.
Muskrat, I'm a little disappointed with your agreement in principal. If you notice, we, the reserves are now being compared just like females in other threads. So I guess the worst is a reserve female gunner?
That's all for now until I calm down.
To answer to one of your previous posts, The Royal Regt is one big family (The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery) and I do belong to a Regiment. Your traditions are my traditions. You or I do not own a monopoly on them. The issue of the cypher maybe a valid issue, but the lanyard and beret had more to do with unification then anything else. For more on Arty traditions here is a link - RCA Standing Orders . By the way the oldest battery (and that is how we follow our lineage) in Canada will be celebrating their 150th Anniversaries in 2005.
You are free to bring your proposal up through the chain of command, pl let them know it is because you don't want to be mistaken as a reserve. But beware, your BSM, RSM, BC or CO might have been in the Militia, and **** proud of it.
The history of the RHA is the were a mounted troop, and in there modern version are mech and support the Armoured Divisions. The only claim to fame for the RCHA is that it comprises of Reg F Regts, so when you lose the M109s, do you go back to RCA? I think not.
Muskrat, I'm a little disappointed with your agreement in principal. If you notice, we, the reserves are now being compared just like females in other threads. So I guess the worst is a reserve female gunner?
That's all for now until I calm down.
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RCA - you are correct - "agreement in principle" was the wrong term. Sometimes, in the Militia, we are our own worst enemy, and I can fully understand how some members would leave our fulltime compatriots with less-than-warm&fuzzies. The rest of my post (hopefully) points out, that there is more to it, than meets the eye. To paint an entire organization with one brush, is not the thinking-man‘s way to do things.
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Muskrat,
In my opinion, your 100% correct. There are some exceptional people in the reserves, these professional soldiers are (90% of them) also professional civilians. Most professionals cannot take off months at a time to work on a call out, what is usually visible to the regs are the reserves who are available. And those who do take call outs are for tour and non-occupational specific jobs. So when these people return to thier units they have no professional (trade specific) to contribute to there home units.
This is a failing of the system. Please don‘t get me wrong, I‘m not slagging the gunners of the miltia regiments, it‘s just that for the ‘most‘ of them do not have the training and experience to operate in a full time environment. I will be more specific, the major of the problems with the militia operating with the Reg Force is the leadership.... period. All gunners start with the same level of training, Reg or Reserve. I have worked with many reserve young gunners who with some short work up training integrated quite easily into the unit. The problem is when you have the ‘leaders‘ in the the militia deployed...sure they can operate well enough with thier own unit... Militia commanding militia, but the problem pops up then you have them working with the Reg force, then it is appearent that they are not equal.... no 6 year militia Sgt can be integrated into reg unit... when the one hook gunners have more experience. When you have to fire one or more of these guys, and replace him with a Bdr... you will realize the difference...
In my opinion, your 100% correct. There are some exceptional people in the reserves, these professional soldiers are (90% of them) also professional civilians. Most professionals cannot take off months at a time to work on a call out, what is usually visible to the regs are the reserves who are available. And those who do take call outs are for tour and non-occupational specific jobs. So when these people return to thier units they have no professional (trade specific) to contribute to there home units.
This is a failing of the system. Please don‘t get me wrong, I‘m not slagging the gunners of the miltia regiments, it‘s just that for the ‘most‘ of them do not have the training and experience to operate in a full time environment. I will be more specific, the major of the problems with the militia operating with the Reg Force is the leadership.... period. All gunners start with the same level of training, Reg or Reserve. I have worked with many reserve young gunners who with some short work up training integrated quite easily into the unit. The problem is when you have the ‘leaders‘ in the the militia deployed...sure they can operate well enough with thier own unit... Militia commanding militia, but the problem pops up then you have them working with the Reg force, then it is appearent that they are not equal.... no 6 year militia Sgt can be integrated into reg unit... when the one hook gunners have more experience. When you have to fire one or more of these guys, and replace him with a Bdr... you will realize the difference...
Gunner
Army.ca Veteran
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This argument gets extremely tiresome. Accept that fact that Reg and Reserve are different yet they can be complimentary. If you want the Reserves to be at the same standard as the Regular Force, sign them up to a long contract, pay them alot of money, and train the heck out of them. Having said that, there is nothing stopping the Reserves developing well trained, motivated, and competent soldiers. Will they have the full depth of knowledge and experience as their Regular counterparts, of course not. But they can bring a depth of experience from the civilian side that the army is sorely missing.
When MGen Leslie was the CO of 1 RCHA, he conducted an experiment during the Artillery concentration in 1994. Three batteries deployed. The first was M109 and consisted of 90% Reg and 10% Res and performed to a consistent high standard. The second batter was 105 and was split 50/50 Reg/Res. It has some teething problems but within a day or two they were operating at a similar standard as the first battery. The final battery was 90% Reserve and 10% Regular. It certainly was the weaker of the three batteries but after a week of training together they were meeting similar standards as the remaining two (including winning Regt adjustments).
Of all the combat arms, the artillery should be the closest working as we have a common history. The wearisome comments of one side is better then another is ludicrous. Certainly, using individuals to stereotype the abilities of the Regs or Res is not a fair assessment.
I have seen absolutely useless Regular Force Officers, Warant Officers, Sergeants, and gunners sucking money from the public teat. I have also seen absolutely selfless professional Reservists that are taken advantage of by our system.
The strength or vital ground of the artillery within the Canadian army has to be both components working together to provide a greater capability (synergy!). I don‘t believe it is being done and it is going to cost all of the artillery units. Armour is soon to be a historical capability in the Army. Let‘s work together to ensure it doesn‘t happen to the artillery. I didn‘t join to be a mortarman.
I‘ll get off my soapbox.
When MGen Leslie was the CO of 1 RCHA, he conducted an experiment during the Artillery concentration in 1994. Three batteries deployed. The first was M109 and consisted of 90% Reg and 10% Res and performed to a consistent high standard. The second batter was 105 and was split 50/50 Reg/Res. It has some teething problems but within a day or two they were operating at a similar standard as the first battery. The final battery was 90% Reserve and 10% Regular. It certainly was the weaker of the three batteries but after a week of training together they were meeting similar standards as the remaining two (including winning Regt adjustments).
Of all the combat arms, the artillery should be the closest working as we have a common history. The wearisome comments of one side is better then another is ludicrous. Certainly, using individuals to stereotype the abilities of the Regs or Res is not a fair assessment.
I have seen absolutely useless Regular Force Officers, Warant Officers, Sergeants, and gunners sucking money from the public teat. I have also seen absolutely selfless professional Reservists that are taken advantage of by our system.
The strength or vital ground of the artillery within the Canadian army has to be both components working together to provide a greater capability (synergy!). I don‘t believe it is being done and it is going to cost all of the artillery units. Armour is soon to be a historical capability in the Army. Let‘s work together to ensure it doesn‘t happen to the artillery. I didn‘t join to be a mortarman.
I‘ll get off my soapbox.
V
Veteran`s son
Guest
Excellent post Gunner!
Your explanation of the differences between and the working together of the Regs and the Res was very helpful!
Again, a most helpful post!
Your explanation of the differences between and the working together of the Regs and the Res was very helpful!
Again, a most helpful post!
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Didn‘t mean to anger anyone with my last post, I started explaining my position... the whole "Regs never see the best of the reserves" When I was interupted by my in-location reservists, and I vented toward the end of my post. I think we can safely put this tread to rest.
