Future Helicopters

[KevinB]

EuroCraptor…
I’m coining it.

 

[OldSolduer]

EuroCraptor…
I’m coining it.

WHAT? Not the EuroRaptor?

 

[Underway]

I was amazed by the size difference between the NH90 and the Cyclone. I understood the Cyclone is relatively big (second only to EH101 for frigate helo's) but did not really understand the difference until I saw it.

 

[CBH99]

WHAT? Not the EuroRaptor?

Can't get ahead of one's self...their 6th Gen isn't even off the drawing board yet

 

[MTShaw]

Can't get ahead of one's self...their 6th Gen isn't even off the drawing board yet

 

[Spencer100]

This one is for Kevinb

 

[Spencer100]

Well the FVL and really the FLRAA (Blackhawk replacement) program is do or die for Bell.

But I have earlier the army will have to give Bell one program at a minimum or they will lose a competitor and that will not be good for the industrial supply base.

Bell/Textron Says Keeping Future Vertical Lift On Track Is Critical To Renewing The Rotorcraft Industrial Base

Also as the Canadian angle Bell is Canada's industrial OEM supply base so there is that.

 

[Kirkhill]

MQ-8C / Bell 407

How many 407s could be carried by the AOPSs and the CSCs instead of the CH-148s? As an alternate/complementary load out - not necessarily as a replacement.

2? 3?

Amphibious Operations: Ship-Launched MQ-8C Fire Scout Drone Massively Extends Future Warfighting Options - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

“Fire Scout is the Navy’s only unmanned helicopter with the ability to deploy from a ship or land with ISR&T at the extended range required for future warfighting,”

warriormaven.com

 

[Spencer100]

MQ-8C / Bell 407

How many 407s could be carried by the AOPSs and the CSCs instead of the CH-148s? As an alternate/complementary load out - not necessarily as a replacement.

2? 3?

Amphibious Operations: Ship-Launched MQ-8C Fire Scout Drone Massively Extends Future Warfighting Options - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

“Fire Scout is the Navy’s only unmanned helicopter with the ability to deploy from a ship or land with ISR&T at the extended range required for future warfighting,”

warriormaven.com

Canadian content will be covered nicely.

But if you would like some type of completive bidding Leonardo (UK) will have a similar unmanned helicopter soon too. It may already be in the final stages of development before flight.

Royal Navy sets sights on drone helicopters

The UK Ministry of Defense has awarded a £60 million contract to Leonardo to design and develop an uncrewed helicopter for the Royal Navy.

www.navaltoday.com

 

[Colin Parkinson]

MQ-8C / Bell 407

How many 407s could be carried by the AOPSs and the CSCs instead of the CH-148s? As an alternate/complementary load out - not necessarily as a replacement.

2? 3?

Amphibious Operations: Ship-Launched MQ-8C Fire Scout Drone Massively Extends Future Warfighting Options - Warrior Maven: Center for Military Modernization

“Fire Scout is the Navy’s only unmanned helicopter with the ability to deploy from a ship or land with ISR&T at the extended range required for future warfighting,”

warriormaven.com

Get the government to buy 12x Bell 429, give them to TC, paint them grey and they lease the helicopters and crew to the RCN. This is how the CCG does it and it works well. Certainly good for domestic ops and lessens the demand on the Cyclones. They can work off of the AOP's mainly but also AOR's

 

[Spencer100]

Get the government to buy 12x Bell 429, give them to TC, paint them grey and they lease the helicopters and crew to the RCN. This is how the CCG does it and it works well. Certainly good for domestic ops and lessens the demand on the Cyclones. They can work off of the AOP's mainly but also AOR's

Better yet set up a company lets call it Spencer100 Helos Ltd. (similar cough cough Federal Fleet Services) to buy them wet lease them to the RCN. Perfect! Who's in?

Thinking....will need money, pilots, techs, and PR people....PR people first....Oh and a Liberal bagman.....

 

[Kirkhill]

Better yet set up a company lets call it Spencer100 Helos Ltd. (similar cough cough Federal Fleet Services) to buy them wet lease them to the RCN. Perfect! Who's in?

Thinking....will need money, pilots, techs, and PR people....PR people first....Oh and a Liberal bagman.....

Reduce your costs Spencer - pilots optional

The Northrop Grumman MQ-8C Fire Scout (known as the Fire-X during development) is an unmanned helicopter developed by Northrop Grumman for use by the United States Navy. The MQ-8C also has autonomous take-off and landing capability.

 

[Spencer100]

Reduce your costs Spencer - pilots optional

Oh crap....What was I thinking.

Leads me to a question. Does a civilian company that would operate said drone (I know RPAS) require a full licensed pilot? Are there different degrees? Does the Fire Scout have any autotomy? One cost save would be in the not requiring an "officer pilot" Can one licensed Pilot in command of multiple RPAS with lesser "drone pilots" Can it be done in a office in Nova Scotia an not on the Ship? Big saving there!

Damn can anyone write a good business plan up?

 

[KevinB]

Well the FVL and really the FLRAA (Blackhawk replacement) program is do or die for Bell.

But I have earlier the army will have to give Bell one program at a minimum or they will lose a competitor and that will not be good for the industrial supply base.

Bell/Textron Says Keeping Future Vertical Lift On Track Is Critical To Renewing The Rotorcraft Industrial Base

Also as the Canadian angle Bell is Canada's industrial OEM supply base so there is that.

Bell isn’t going to win.
Sikorsky (LocMart) will replace Sikorsky.

There is a discussion with the MG running the CFT for FVL.

 

[DBNSG]

Get the government to buy 12x Bell 429, give them to TC, paint them grey and they lease the helicopters and crew to the RCN. This is how the CCG does it and it works well. Certainly good for domestic ops and lessens the demand on the Cyclones. They can work off of the AOP's mainly but also AOR's

Why not buy the Griffin or the Bell 412 EP as it known to the Coast Guard. I would feel a little better with more lift, range, and internal space when going North.

 

[KevinB]

Why not buy the Griffin or the Bell 412 EP as it known to the Coast Guard. I would feel a little better with more lift, range, and internal space when going North.

Maybe ask the Naval and Tac Helo folks as to why they hate Maritime ops with skids as opposed to wheels on the birds...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Why not buy the Griffin or the Bell 412 EP as it known to the Coast Guard. I would feel a little better with more lift, range, and internal space when going North.

We used small and large on the buoy tenders, the smaller ones fit into the hanger, not sure if the 412's would fit an AOP's hanger or they have folding blades?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Maybe ask the Naval and Tac Helo folks as to why they hate Maritime ops with skids as opposed to wheels on the birds...

The weather/sea state requirements would be different than Naval aircraft. I am proposing the 75% solution, using a government framework already in existence, using Canadian produced aircraft and creating more helicopter capability for the CAF without the person year requirements. Political and fiscally it's quite doable and somewhat similar to what the RN and USN does with contracted helicopter companies. Using government employees will solve some security issues and optics.

 

[KevinB]

The weather/sea state requirements would be different than Naval aircraft. I am proposing the 75% solution, using a government framework already in existence, using Canadian produced aircraft and creating more helicopter capability for the CAF without the person year requirements. Political and fiscally it's quite doable and somewhat similar to what the RN and USN does with contracted helicopter companies. Using government employees will solve some security issues and optics.

25% solution...

The areas where one needs additional blades - are areas that 1) contract services will be super $... 2) challenging environments for less capable birds that don't have all the EO/IO bells and whistles 3) area that the CAF needs to show the flag, not a contractor.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

25% solution...

The areas where one needs additional blades - are areas that 1) contract services will be super $... 2) challenging environments for less capable birds that don't have all the EO/IO bells and whistles 3) area that the CAF needs to show the flag, not a contractor.

Mostly I am thinking Arctic, domestic ops and humanitarian. The AOP's are apparently not "Warships" so rarely will need "Warship type helicopters". It does not preclude carrying a Cyclone. But do you need a Cyclone for doing ice recce?