Future Helicopters

[calculus]

More on Defiant:

DEFIANT helicopter slaloms, lifts external loads and demos single-engine capability

In three demonstrations during the same flight, the Lockheed Martin Sikorsky-Boeing SB>1 DEFIANT helicopter demonstrated it is not only maneuverable, survivable and fast, but also provides the critical external lift capability of traditional rotorcraft. With DEFIANT X, the team’s offering for...

airrecognition.com

 

[CBH99]

More on Defiant:

DEFIANT helicopter slaloms, lifts external loads and demos single-engine capability

In three demonstrations during the same flight, the Lockheed Martin Sikorsky-Boeing SB>1 DEFIANT helicopter demonstrated it is not only maneuverable, survivable and fast, but also provides the critical external lift capability of traditional rotorcraft. With DEFIANT X, the team’s offering for...

airrecognition.com

Lockheed, Sikorsky, and Boeing all in together developing the next generation of vertical lift?

Doesn’t leave much room for competition…

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Bell launches 407M light attack helo​

Source - Janes
Source - Bell 407M product page

So, an upgraded Kiowa?

 

[KevinB]

So, an upgraded Kiowa?

Looks to be a budget version of the -D, no targeting dome, and considering the D was inadequate...

 

[KevinB]

Lockheed, Sikorsky, and Boeing all in together developing the next generation of vertical lift?

Doesn’t leave much room for competition…

Lockheed acquired Sikorsky - they are still "integrating" RMS into one team.
Bell/Boeing is the other competitor.

 

[Good2Golf]

Lockheed, Sikorsky, and Boeing all in together developing the next generation of vertical lift?

Doesn’t leave much room for competition…

So aside from Bell Textron with the V-280 Valor, who else should be considered? Kaman? They sub to Bell, Boeing and Lockheed/Sikorsky.

What other manufacturers are there out there upon which the US can absolutely guarantee its supply chain?

 

[calculus]

So aside from Bell Textron with the V-280 Valor, who else should be considered? Kaman? They sub to Bell, Boeing and Lockheed/Sikorsky.

What other manufacturers are there out there upon which the US can absolutely guarantee its supply chain?

This, perhaps, from Europe:

Five European allies sign on to build NATO’s next medium-lift helicopter

France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Italy and Greece each signed letters of intent to participate in the program, dubbed “Next-Generation Rotorcraft Capability,” or NGRC.

www.defensenews.com

NATO progresses next-generation helicopter project as six-country agreement takes shape

Six European NATO members are gearing up to sign an agreement later this year to advance the alliance's plans to field a next-generation medium-lift helicopter by the mid-2030s.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Good2Golf]

Do you think the US considers a foreign manufacturer a reliable defense supply chain partner?

 

[calculus]

Do you think the US considers a foreign manufacturer a reliable defense supply chain partner?

Probably not, though the UH-72 Lakota shows it is not outside of the realm of possible. I was more thinking for Canada this could be an option.

 

[Good2Golf]

UH-72 is not a combat aircraft for deployed ops, it is a domestic Guard utility and training capability upon which no active duty US soldier would have to depend on in operations.

 

[Kirkhill]

Speed, Range, Less Cost / Blade Hr, more efficient engine.

Speed is life in many situations.

Off hand the V280, with its engine package looks to me a bit like an early DASH-8 that is swapping some cargo capacity for vertical lift.

De Havilland Canada Dash 8 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MTOW is 15,600 kg for the Dash 8-100 vs 14,000 kg for the V280
Pax is 38 for the Dash 8 vs 14 for the V280
Range is 1889 km for the Dash 8 vs 1480 to 3900 km for the V280.
Speed is 500 km/h for the Dash 8 vs 520 km/h for the V280.

If the price of the V280 (exclusive of all the military doodads) were comparable to the Dash 8 I reckon it would be a fair trade.

On the other hand

How much is that Vertical Take off and Land worth compared to an equivalent number of modern DHC-5 with the same military doodads?

 

[KevinB]

Probably not, though the UH-72 Lakota shows it is not outside of the realm of possible. I was more thinking for Canada this could be an option.

As @Good2Golf pointed out it's a training domestic bird - , the scout role of the OH-58D was basically replaced operationally by UAV's.

The Coast Guard has the Europcopter MH-65 Dauphin for domestic roles where the Blackhawk isn't needed as well.

But given that Bell/Boeing have the V-280 flying and LM/Sik have the Defiant X - as well as both have flying Scout/Attack helicopters for that portion as well.

 

[KevinB]

How much is that Vertical Take off and Land worth compared to an equivalent number of modern DHC-5 with the same military doodads?

While I have never tried to extract a building under fire onto a fixed wing craft --- I'm not sure that it would work very well

 

[Kirkhill]

While I have never tried to extract a building under fire onto a fixed wing craft --- I'm not sure that it would work very well

I have confidence. I am sure you could figure something out.

On the other hand. You might be right and a few of them could come in handy. But in a battle for dollars. How many do you really need? And how much of the role could be handled by Chinooks and Buffalos - or even Hercs? I am leaving the Kingfisher out of the discussion for the moment.

 

[Kirkhill]

Oh, and by the way, you could probably reduce the power requirements necessary if you left the building behind while you were being extracted.

 

[KevinB]

I have confidence. I am sure you could figure something out.

On the other hand. You might be right and a few of them could come in handy. But in a battle for dollars. How many do you really need? And how much of the role could be handled by Chinooks and Buffalos - or even Hercs? I am leaving the Kingfisher out of the discussion for the moment.

It's been used with people - but it's not exactly a very practical method.

I love the Hook - but it's not a great platform for tight spaces, and it's fairly big - so if you are running a 6-14 man team it's a little over kill.
I am of the believer with aerial platforms for air assault that more is more -- meaning - it is often better to bring more AC than less -- it gives the enemy more to shoot at .

This is a Blackhawk (or Griffon for those of you rotary challenged ) replacement - it's not a Hook replacement.

Fixed wing planes can't hover -- and often you need that ability.
Rotary and Fixed Wing craft have different roles - and you need both.

 

[Kirkhill]

So, an upgraded Kiowa?

Or

Northrop Grumman MQ-8C Fire Scout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Optionally manned?

 

[Retired AF Guy]

So aside from Bell Textron with the V-280 Valor, who else should be considered? Kaman? They sub to Bell, Boeing and Lockheed/Sikorsky.

What other manufacturers are there out there upon which the US can absolutely guarantee its supply chain?

Leonardo??

 

[Good2Golf]

Leonardo??

If Lockheed is subbing them, perhaps, but Lockheed would be prime and take the extra measures to ensure supply chain. I would highly doubt Leonardo as a separate entity would ever get a prime, anymore than say Airbus…

 

[KevinB]

Or

Northrop Grumman MQ-8C Fire Scout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Optionally manned?

What one does with OH-58D's when one has the replacement sorted...

Stay paint over the cockpit glass and install the stuff you need to run remote.