• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Foreign Medals Regulations

I see you are CIC.  Speak with your unit CO/send him an memo stating what you saw and what your recommend.  Or ask him how to staff it on his behalf (I can't remember what your "cadet directives" are called but their should be direction on how to do it).  There are lots of cadets and CIC who receive various forms of recognition for their good works on behalf of all Canadians.  
 
the 48th regulator said:
yes, and you seem to have to remind us in every post where you are and what you are doing.

I would suggest you gave yourself a shake and realize your story is getting long in the tooth.

dileas

tess

btw, it is a melmac warmer, not an elephant slipper, Walt.


you're right, i do talk a lot about being here, because being one of about probably 50 or so canadians here in Iraq i am quite proud of what i do here. in regards to being here for the money, well i dont make as much as you think i do, i am here for my belief in the cause. believe me or not, i really dont care what a bunch of chairborne commandos think about me, i am here, which is more than you will ever do.




 
And I think this one has run its course....

If someone thinks of something fresh and interesting to add, PM me, and I'll re-open the thread (or you can start a new one)

If there were medals for internet pokey-chest , this thread would be a significant action...

:army:
 
OK - Thread unlocked. As usual, philisophical debate is OK, even encouraged - personal tit-for-tat is not. Keep arguments, digs, slams, and personality conflicts in PM-land. Don't forget the forum conduct guidelines. Thanks in advance

:army:
 
SHELLDRAKE!! said:
IMHO the 125 and the Queens Jubilee should have either been given to all serving members or none at all.

As for the CPSM I still don't understand what this medal signifies when hanging next to the peacekeeping medal that you were awarded for the tour to begin with.

The issue of the SSM I feel could have been solved with seperate bars on the medal ie:Germany, and maybee the hotly contested idea of a domestic ops bar instead of a medal

As for wound stripes, IMHO should only be issued to members serving on a mission, that are wounded requiring "external" first aid and not to include things such as a negligent discharge to the foot. By all means friendly fire(blue on blue) should qualify for a wound stripe.

A US Vet explained to me the American system of awarding ribbons and medals. After WWII the US Military was so enormous that a persons could be posted in and out of a unit before his file ever caught up to him. Thus the only way to know the man who standing in front of you is to look at his chest. His pers file is right there. They take their resumes fairly serious as we can see from the Rear-Admiral who offed himself a few years back after he was found wearing a V on is Vietnam ribbon that he was not entitled to.

The CPSM is a Canadian medal. UN and Nato medals are not. After 100,000 plus troops had served overseas the Canadian Government decided to issue a medal in recognition.

SSM is issued with bars, IE NATO, PEACE, ALERT. I'm fairly certain that the last Domestic Op's medal/bar was issued for the NW Rebellion. Certainly, there have been few domestic events in Canada that would merit one. APEC or security at the Olympics certainly do not qualify for anything other than a couple of short days and the pay check the soldier is already getting.

You are probably right about the wound stripe. I doubt you can shoot yourself in the foot and expect to get one.

Soldiers in Canada and the US know what ribbons or medals are gimmies and which ones are freebies.  No one confuses a CPSM with a DCM, or a NATO medal with a WWII campaign star.
 
Maybee a system of medals on the left side and ribbon qual's on the right side, but alot of Canadians assume as well that in the US a ribbon automatically means that there is a medal that goes along with it. In hindsight though, who are we to judge another nations awards policy.
 
SHELLDRAKE!! said:
Maybee a system of medals on the left side and ribbon qual's on the right side, but alot of Canadians assume as well that in the US a ribbon automatically means that there is a medal that goes along with it.

The right side on the US uniform is for Citations.  Debating what a foreign army wears on it's uniform is pretty silly.  We as Canadians can ass/u/me what we like about the US system of awards but if we are wrong the fault is in us not them.

If you do not like something in our system of awards call or write a letter to DHH at Rideau Hall.  They have always answered my questions and returned my letters with a polite 'we'll take it under advisment'. 
 
There are pictures of the wound stripes on my website under insignia - www.canadiansoldiers.com

My opinion?  "Hostile fire" is the key word.  A friendly pilot dropping a 500 pound bomb on your position should, in my opinion, still count as "hostile fire."  It was certainly intended that way.
 
If the rules are that you need to be hit by Hostile Fire to be awarded Wound Stripes , IMHO they should be changed , I submit if you are on the buisness end of ANY ordanace it is always hostile , shrapnel is shrapnel after all . This seems a no brainer . Which brings another question to mind , how do the rules get changed ?
 
All good points, what will we do with the thousands of friendly fire wounds that did not get a wound strip from the past wars? Friendly fire has never been considered hostile I know it sounds silly especially when it all has the same results.
 
rocky1fac said:
All good points, what will we do with the thousands of friendly fire wounds that did not get a wound strip from the past wars? Friendly fire has never been considered hostile I know it sounds silly especially when it all has the same results.

Mabey I'm being a simpleton (wouldn't be the first time ) ,but in the process of getting these rules changed if it was decided that a "wrong" was done to Friendly  Fire Casualties by not awarding them Wound Stripes, why couldn't they be awarded now? I'm not sure if the records have been kept for all these years though.
 
rocky1fac said:
The example is the aard of a pair of Crosses of Valour to two SAR techs during the same open sea rescue. The rules state that only one award can be given if more than one peron was envovled then the commander must select the bravest of the brave and issue one. In this case the aieforce issued two for the same incident. no doubt well deserved but the rules were broken and that reflects poorly on the past awards.

Another load of BS.

They issued three Crosses of Valour to three people for the same incident in 1981. Easily found by searching the
recipients database on the Governor Generals website. http://www.gg.ca/Search/honours_e.asp
It happened again in 1998.

" Date of Award: 2/11/1998  Date of Presentation: 9/18/1998

On November 12, 1996, Search and Rescue Technicians Mitchell and Pierce carried out an unprecedented night parachute jump into freezing Arctic waters to provide medical aid to a critically ill fisherman onboard a Danish trawler near Resolution Island, Northwest Territories. Tasked initially as back-up to another air rescue team, the Hercules aircraft with Mcpls. Mitchell and Pierce on board arrived first on the scene only to learn that the stricken seaman had taken a turn for the worse. There was no time to waste so they elected to attempt a risky parachute descent. With inadequate flare illumination and the promised Zodiac boat not yet launched from the Danish trawler, they jumped in extremely strong winds that carried them away from the vessel. As they entered the three-metre waves, MCpl. Mitchell became entangled in the shroud lines under his partially collapsed chute canopy, while MCpl. Pierce's chute remained inflated and dragged him face down through the water farther away from the ship. Although equipped with dinghies, they could not paddle nor swim to the trawler because of heavy seas and severe icing. Struggling to stay afloat, they battled the onset of hypothermia for 15 minutes before the crew of an ice-encrusted Zodiac picked them up and delivered them to the ship where they carried out medical procedures that saved the patient's life."

They awarded two Star's of Courage to two military members in 2004 for the same event.
Two Medals of Bravery to two military members in 2004 for another event.

As for past rewards, A search of 1979 medals shows three Medals of Bravery to three members for the same rescue.

"Date of Award: 9/11/1978  Date of Presentation: 3/9/1979

On 28 November 1977, MCpl. Roderick Campbell, MCpl. Gilbert Gaudreault and Cpl. Clement Lemay of 442 Transport and Rescue Squadron, Comox, British Columbia, saved a woman from a capsized fishing vessel in Seymour Narrows near Campbell River, British Columbia. The woman was trapped in the engine room of the craft. The rescuers dived under water and got into the vessel through a wheelhouse window broken by MCpl. Gaudreault. In almost total darkness they scrambled among rigging and fishing nets to find the victim and brought her to the surface. They then searched in vain for two other missing persons until their air supply was exhausted."

The very first year (1973) they gave out the new Canadian Decorations for Bravery , they gave three out to three military members for the same rescue.

" Date of Award: 3/5/1973  Date of Presentation: 6/22/1973

Following the disastrous landslide on May 5, 1971, at St.-Jean-Vianney, Quebec, Capt Wenaas, Capt Farncombe and Cpl Verchère of the Canadian Armed Forces combed the area by helicopter looking for survivors. Much of the search was made in darkness and under hazardous flying conditions. The following morning, Capt Farncombe and his crew located a survivor atop a car, and hovering over the vehicle hoisted the victim to safety. Cpl Verchère disembarked from the helicopter to make a search of houses which were in imminent danger of collapse. In the course of the search operation, the two pilots and Cpl Verchère displayed perseverance and courage in the face of grave risks."

You should not be posting in subjects you have no idea about.


 
I have no idea what your point is!

You have just confirmed what I said.

The issue if it got lost was that you cant issue more than one medal or award for the same incident buy the rules ie my point of bravest of the brave you have proved me correct thanks. Now I may have not recalled the incident exactly while I typed it but the main point was correct and that fact that you gave mor examples to prove my point is just great.
 
rocky1fac said:
I have no idea what your point is!

You have just confirmed what I said.

The issue if it got lost was that you cant issue more than one medal or award for the same incident buy the rules ie my point of bravets opf the brave you have roved me correct thanks.

The point is, Your full of it.
They have been issuing more than one since day one.  Always have, always will.
 
Not to pick a fight but that is my point several units usually air or support break the rule of only one. You can get into the book and read the notes on awards it clearly states that only one will be issued to 1 incident no matter how many invovled.

So I call BS get into the book and get back to me with an I m sorry.
 
rocky1fac said:
Not to pick a fight but that is my point several units usually air or support break the rule of only one. You can get into the book and read the notes on awards it clearly states that only one will be issued to 1 incident no matter how many invovled.

So I call BS get into the book and get back to me with an I m sorry.

Another load of BS again.

Units do not issue medals. Commands do not issue medals. 
I've read the books. Your lying.

 
Of course units dont nor do commands they write up and recommend stop with the red herrings read the book. Examples clearly stated. Then get back with an Im sorry. As a moderator I would expect more decorum. If Im wrong I will be clad to applogize.
 
I challenge you to give me the quote. I have the books right here.

 
rocky1fac said:
Not to pick a fight but that is my point several units usually air or support break the rule of only one. You can get into the book and read the notes on awards it clearly states that only one will be issued to 1 incident no matter how many invovled.

Close, but not quite accurate:

-Several members can be nominated for awards for the same event.

-A member can be nominated for several awards for one event.  An awards committee will pick the most suitable of those proposed.  They may also substitute a higher/lower award.

-Only one award will be made to each member for any one event (if they are found to qualify).

Hope this helps.
 
OK, Guys.....

Rocky - you started the thread down this path when you stated

The rules state that only one award can be given if more than one peron was envovled then the commander must select the bravest of the brave and issue one. In this case the aieforce issued two for the same incident. no doubt well deserved but the rules were broken and that reflects poorly on the past awards

back on Page 2.

If you could cite the source for that statement, then we can move along. I assume that there are varying sets of rules from varying levels of formation and civilian bureaucracy. It is not unrealistic to believe that in some cases these rules "overlap" and occasionally - contradict. Per our Guidelines, citing sources helps prevent these kinds of exchanges. Generally the onus is on the person who makes the initial statement, to provide substantiation.....
 
Back
Top